I am trying to make a decision on my first revolver and narrowed things down to these two models. I understand that there is no reason to ask which one is better as there seems to be a 50/50 split. The only agreement is that either of these guns is excellent and will last me a lifetime.

I do however have a few questions and concerns:
1. 686 feels like an American class and has been in production longer than 627. Feels like there would be fewer potential issues with this gun?
2. 627 is a pro edition so extra attention to detail during manufacture and I'm OK with spending +100$ on this firearm if I do get better quality product.
3. More accessories for 686 as it's a 7-shot vs 8-shot revolver, and overall seems to be a more popular choice.
4. I wanted to make 100% sure that I would be able to fire 627 WITHOUT moon-clips. IE I can drop rounds one by one into individual chambers if I want to and fire.
5. 627 is built on a frame (N-frame) that was designed for a different caliber as opposed to 686 being built on a "correct" frame. I'm not sure what I should make of this, if anything. My first feeling is that it's not a good thing to mix and match, but then again I don't know.
6. I plan to use either gun as a range gun and MAYBE as a home defense gun(probably not as I have my pistols)

Please let me know what your opinions are on my concerns above. Notwithstanding the price which one would be a better choice.

thanks

Consider the 327pc, love it

The biggest difference is that the weight and width of the 627 is a bit more than the 686.

I had the 627 Pro. Excellent gun. Very accurate, particularly with adjustable rear sights. I only got rid of the Pro as I had a Performance Center 5" 627 that I had, also.

In the end, it is a matter of what feels better in hand. What does the trigger feel like to you. How does the gun balance in your hands?

I find very long barrels to be unwieldy. Anything greater than 7.5" is too much for me. Shorter barrels give up a little velocity.

The 627 doesn't require moonclips to shoot.

The only accessories I consider for large frame handguns are the holster, grips and a rail if I decide to choose an optic.


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either gun would be in 4 inch model.

This will probably be the only revolver that I would own, that's why I'm splitting hairs trying to pick a better one of the two.

I have a 686+ and a 627. I shoot the 627 5X more.

Buy both

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Depending on how many rounds you like to shoot during range sessions, weight might be a consideration.
For my usual 150rd sessions, my 4" 686+ gets tiring to hold with arms extended, but the weight of my 3" 686+ does not. I love shooting the 4", but I have to take a rest in the middle of the session.

With that in mind, I'll throw another model into the mix, the Performance Center Pro Series Model 686 Plus, SKU: 178038.
It' a 5" that weighs less than the 4", so you get the benefit of increased sight radius for no weight penalty. It also comes with target sights and grips. Overall, it's a design for range work.

Performance Center(R) Pro Series(R) Model 686 Plus | Smith & Wesson

S&W M686 Plus 7RD 357MAG/38SP 5" $785.00 SHIPS FREE

I have both. The weight is very similar between the two, but the 686 is noticeably nose heavy. First choice would be the 627, but nothing wrong with the 686.

I have shot but dont own a 627, but I do own three 686s and a a 3-inch N-frame in .44 magnum. I like the size and feel of the 686 L-frame a bit better.
They are both good choices, go with the one that feels better to you in hand.

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As was pointed out, the Model 27 ( the blued version of the 627) has been in existence since 1935. The 586/686 guns since the early 80's. There are no "bugs" to be worked-out with either gun.

It's pretty much the luck of the draw as to whether the Pro, or even a PC is any better than a regular production gun. Don't buy it just because it is a Pro, buy it because it has the features you like.

That is patently incorrect. The 7-shot revolvers are like the red-headed step-child of the S&W line-up. The 8-shot revolvers are used extensively in competition (USPSA & ICORE) and as such there are many more accessories available for them. Just as with cars - race on Sunday, sell on Monday - the competition use drives the aftermarket and the 7-shot guns really have no place on the competition side of the equation.

Rest easy. Any gun that is originally chambered for a rimmed round (i.e. .357 Mag) and is either machined for moon clips in the aftermarket or by the factory, can accept singly loaded rounds or rounds from a speed loader. Only guns chambered for rimless or semi-rimmed rounds require moon clips (although there are those that would argue with me on that point - just depends on if you want 100% reliability and intact fingernails).

The N-frame has been around since the turn of the last century and was made specifically for large bore cartridges (those that begin with a "4"). With the evolution of ammunition and "magnumization" it only made sense to use the largest frame currently (then) made for these cartridges - starting with the .38/.44 which would be most closely equivalent to today's +P or +P+ .38 Spl. The heavier frame was better for recoil absorption and longer life. The L-frame came along because of the forcing cone issues with the .357 K-frames. NOTE: L-frames are also used for large bore cartridges, although in those iterations the cylinder is only bored with 5 chambers - the exception being the 646 chambered in .40 S&W. Bigger is better when it comes to recoil and longevity.

Either would be suitable for that - but if I may have to use the gun for defensive purposes, I would always opt for the one with greater capacity. Looking way down the road - there may come a time that you'll want to play some gun games with your revolver - as I pointed out above, the 8-shot revolvers are eminently better suited to this endeavor - the 7-shot revolvers? Not so much.

Good luck with whichever you choose.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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ordered
Smith & Wesson 627 Pro Series Revolver .357 Mag 4in 8rd Stainless

You made a good choice.

I love my 627, which is my only revolver. I was between the 66, 686, and 627. I liked the bead blast finish and balance better on the 66 and 627, and the 627 had some unqualifiable cool factor to it, and the quick change sights are really cool. I also didn't like the black components on the 66, so I went with the heftier 627.

Enjoy!

And don't forget to stop in with a range and some pictures.

Perfect. My 627 is always on "roster" as part of my 3 gun bag. Having that extra round at the range or home IS a bonus!

Nuff said

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got my 627 today. Very happy so far as far as appearance but am yet to take it to the range.

Two concerns that I have are
On the attached image you'll see that there is a scratch mark across the recoil shield. Clearly this is from nub that is in the middle of star. I'm not sure if it's normal or not. It's not a gauge, there is no burr when I ran my fingernail across.

When I press cylinder release it doesn't 'fall out' on its own even after I lean the gun sideways. I have to give the cylinder a bit of the nudge to make it come out. I'm 99% certain that this is ok.

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That's perfectly normal. Both items you describe. The cylinder should not be allowed to "fall out on its own" under any circumstances by the way, always keep it under control with your left hand. To do otherwise, like the idiots in the Hollywood movies do is to risk damage to the cylinder crane, not good!

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

What you are seeing is caused by the "cylinder center pin" and is very normal.

Ok. Just took a trip to the range with this gun (after having cleaned and lubricated as instructed in the manual). Fired off 20 rounds of 38 sp and 357 mag by Tulammo. First cylinder went with no problems. By the second cylinder i found it difficult to eject. Third cylinder I am unable to eject spend brass at all no matter how hard I try to push down ejector rod(ie I am unable to depress it at all). You can see several shots in attached pictures. I'm not sure if something is wrong with ammo, the cylinder, something else?

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Try different ammo.

Did it do this with the 38s? Must've been the mags?

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Did you shoot .38s and then .357s? That's never a good idea. If you're going to shoot a mix of .38's and .357s, ALWAYS shoot the .357s FIRST and the .38s LAST. Otherwise, the .38 will leave fouling in the chambers and cause the longer .357 Magnums to stick in the chambers and not extract properly. A thorough cleaning will likely cure the problem you've encountered.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Sorry about the stuck brass, really a bummer. I'm sure you will be getting better suggestions than I can give, but..

If the brass is still stuck, I do suggest that you remove the cylinder from the revolver before you apply much force. You don't want to bend the crane. I would use a dowel rod to lightly tap the brass out of the cylinder. You can then inspect the brass.

Will

Steel case ammo is junk. From what I've read, it can be difficult to extract in any firearm.

Sometimes dirty ammo is hard to extract. It gets fouling in the chambers. Do a combat reload, i.e. point the revolver towards the sky and give the ejector rod a good hard smack.

I second never shooting .38 before .357. Personally, I wouldn't shoot any .38 in it. It's just more to clean (removing carbon fouling). I'm in the mindset of if you want to shoot .38, buy a .38.

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an actual conservative

1. Yes I did shoot a cylinder worth of 38 first. I wasn't sure what the recoil is going to be.
2. First cylinder was ok to eject. I wasn't particularly paying attention but I started noticing difficulty ejecting on second one with only a few chambers (second cylinder was 357 mags). I also noticed that in DA mode the cylinder wouldn't turn as I pulled the trigger on some shots.
3. Found these reviews of the exact ammo I was shooting.
TulAmmo .357 Magnum Ammunition 50 Rounds, FMJ, 158 Grain - TA357158 - 814950011555
that confirms the theory of bad ammo. Seems like other people are having exact same problems.

4. As far as combat reload I've tried pushing eject rod as hard as I could. The only thing that worked at the end of the day is phillips screwdriver in each chamber---and even that barely worked.


Odd that semiauto's are supposed to be ammo-finicky and yet I've NEVER had any issues with steel-cased tulammo in my SW MP's

Looks like another trip to the range for me tomorrow. Any inexpensive ammo that you guys can recommend?

American Eagle ammo is made in the USA by Federal. It's usually well priced and widely available. Clean those chambers well and inspect them with bright light and a magnifier. They should be smooth and fairly shiny.

Shooting the 38s first makes no difference with shooting longer cases later. This was a new gun and hasn't developed any crud inside chambers to restrict the release of longer cases. ....

I have a bad back and shoot 38s first all the time. And if I shoot magnums- I shoot them last. I've heard some people say to do the opposite and that it helps with extraction.

Nope.

Hate to say this but if you want really inexpensive ammo- you have to load. Reloading will offer cost benefits as well as accuracy .

I can't remember how many years ago I bought 357 ammo but, I did buy American eagle. I had to karate chop them outta the cylinder. Just if it happens, don't let it dissuade you from the platform. There are good ammo manufacturers out there. I can only trust my hands and my brains these days.

The courses of action are :
finding the right ammo that works for your gun. (All guns are different and tolerances too)

Loading the right sizes (again) bullets that will work.

Appendix A: moonclips

Finding the right moonclips that work with your cases that fit your gun. Some cases will only work with some brands of moonclips. Usw.usw.

So many choices!


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Steel Case = Bad JuJu.

You bought a great gun. Feed it something worthy.

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Dave

The reason I wanted a revolver is that I really wanted a gun that I wouldn't have to treat like a princess, but real to-hell-and-back kind of a gun: uses any kind of ammo/no need for constant maintenance. My MP 9 full size/ and Shield eat all the tula's and federal aluminum I can throw at them. Several thousand rounds with no problems and I'm not very diligent about cleaning them either.

I guess I should've done a better homework, but it's disappointing to find out that revolvers are so susceptible to extraction issues. And not just susceptible, but with no recourse either. With a pistol it take a few seconds to clear FTE. Today at the range I tried ejection rod as hard as I could, but eventually had to pack up and go home.

It was only disappointing at the range, but in a firefight it would be a much more critical emergency.

Steel cased ammo is cheap poo and should be avoided if at all possible. And, since I reload for all my pistols both bottom feeder and wheelgun, it's also to be avoided since you cannot reload that junk. If you want some reliable and not too expensive ammo, I bought a couple hundred rounds of Fiocchi and a couple hundred rounds of PMC Bronze a few years ago during the Great Ammo and Component Shortage a few years ago because some of my old 70's vintage 357 brass being flat worn out and both of those brands shot well for me with no extraction problems.

As some of the other OPs have stated, the junk ammo is a big part of the problem. A few of the ranges I go to have signs posted, "Do not use steel case ammo". There are many good manufactures of ammo out there at reasonable prices. I don't even like to shoot the aluminum one time cases. When the cylinder get warm they don't eject as easily.

You are over reacting based on your very limited experience with a batch of known **** ammo. Revolvers are reliable as a hammer and you picked a good one. Steel cased ammo will stop an AR 15 or many other other firearms. Most of it is pure **** for tolerance. Much of it has layered cases which will gum up ANYTHING it touches when the gun gets hot. Most any knowledgeable gun people refuse to use it in anything but sloppy chambered firearms such as an AK . Especially for any kind of serious work
All that said, I have been shooting revolvers for 40+ years and can't remember a time I had a stoppage from case extraction in any of my CF revolvers.
My advice is to open yourself to this learning experience and start enjoying the gun with reliable and quality ammo.

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Dave

I see your new here, and perhaps you have not been reading other peoples threads, but there is a lot to learn about the firearms hobby. Your steel case ammo, and 38's before .357's issues are regularly discussed.

And a heads-up about those dependable semi-autos, they can be just as difficult to clear up when they stop working.
When my Shield recoil spring assembly (RSA) failed, it jammed the slide so that it took my gunsmith 15 minutes to get it off. After the slide came off, it took more than 3 months for S&W to send me a new RSA.
The Shield mag release button is steel, and can rust and seize inside the grip, so it should be lubed for rust protection.
Some Shield mag springs have failed by folding at 90 degrees. Etc. etc.

The list of things that can render all your guns unusable is long, so I carry a knife as well, some here carry backup guns or BUG's.

IN my experience AE is extremely dirty. Back when I bought factory ammo, I stopped buying it. I recommend PMC or Magtech. Magtech, especially, can be found for super cheap when it's on sale.

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an actual conservative

While we're on the subject of ammo, I bought some Cabelas Herters ammo while it was on sale. Am I in for a world of hurt?

You don't say the caliber, but I've been plinking with Herters 158gr FMJ .38SP & .357 for about 3-4000 rounds in my 686's and Rossi lever rifle. It's been flawless for me. Shoots good groups to POA, and clean burning.

I've had good luck shooting the Perfecta line of ammo available from Walmart. It's made by Fiocci and it's about the cheapest .357 I've found anywhere. I also like PMC ammo when I can find it on sale, it shoots very clean.
I only shoot .357 from my full size revolvers so I avoid the problem of .38 soot rings interfering with my ejection. Also, I clean the chambers well afer every shooting session with a brass brush and finish up with a patch of lead removing cloth.

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Sorry, yes it's the 158gr FMJ 38spl.

Got a box of Federal 357 Magnum. Will go to the range today and report on the results.

Also , I've email tulammo about this issue.

"are you aware of the reports that your 158 gr 357 magnum cartridges won't eject properly from revolvers?"


They replied today with:
"Yes, we are aware of the issue."

Just came back from the range. Bought 3 other brands of ammo: Sig Sauer Performance, Federal 357 and Aguilla 357 magnum.

No issues ejecting spent casings after having fired at least 60 rounds. I have also tried 38 special first and then 357. Most of the spent casings came out under force of gravity--the ones that stayed certainly didn't require any effort to eject using ejection rod. I tried just 1 round of 357 Tula and was not able to eject it even when using the ejection rod--had to use the screwdriver. As far as I'm concerned that issue is 100% due to the screwey ammo.

One other thing:
Imagine a typical DA triger pull--very long and heavy. I fire off a shot in DA mode, and maybe one or few more. Then I pull the trigger and it's very light, feels like almost no resistance. Small click and nothing happens. Other shots fire off with no problems. At first I thought it's either a faulty round, but that's not the cause. I'm not sure if I'm short stroking the trigger or something else.

did a bit more tries on the 'short stroking' situation. The following actions re-create the 'misfire'

1. I fire the gun in DA mode--the trigger is now as far back as possible.
2. I slowly let the trigger move forward until I hear LOUD click.
3. If I try to pull at this point I won't be able to, the action is completely locked.
4. I let the trigger move even further forward until I hear a SOFTER click.
If I pull on the trigger now I get the 'thump' and the round doesn't go off.
5. I release the trigger even further forward until it gets back to the initial position. EVEN softer click at this point. From here if I pull back I get the proper action cycling.

The only sure way to make certain that a round goes off is to let the trigger quickly go back to initial position. If I slowly let it return, sometime I don't even get a third click and I then get one or even two 'thumps'. I see hammer rises by a fraction of an inch and then falls back.

Avoid using steel case ammo. When a brass case is fired the heat dissipates quickly and the case returns to normal very quickly. A higher velocity round has more pressure and steel cases can stay oversized and create sticking. I've mixed 357 and 38 Special ammo at the range never paying much attention to which I shoot first. The recoil from a 686 is very tolerable with 357 mag ammo, I shoot both because I reload both, (357 reloads don't cost much more to shoot than a 38 spec., a little more powder and a magnum primer). Steel cases work OK in a semi auto because the spent case is ejected immediately, but steel cases cause more wear to the semi autos.

It sounds like you are. It happens to me after I shoot my SA pistols (S&W 3rd gens, Glock, 1911) and then switch to revolvers. Gotta remember the long trigger reset.

What bull**** customer service. I hope you never buy their stuff again.

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an actual conservative

@franzas. I'm sure I will still buy their ammo, just not for a revolver :-) . I've been using Tula for as long as I had MP 9 and never single issue EVER.

It's just a bummer that every time a short stroke happens I do end up 'losing' a round, as when I pull trigger again cylinder rotates to the next cartridge.

Why do people shoot steel cased ammo in quality firearms?

I've been running Sellier & Bellot 158 gr. .357 in my Rossi Model 92 because it cycled so slick, but it's kind of hard to find around here and it's more expensive than most brands. I didn't realize until you brought this up that Herters Ammo was manufactured by S & L. I'm not far from Cabela's, it looks like I'll have to give the Herters a try.

Yes, it's been made by them. A Cabela's credit card bring occasional 20% off discounts that can be combined with the occasional 20% sales on Herters, for OTD price of $14 for .38SP and $16 for .357, depending on your local sales tax.

Order on-line for free store pick-up, to be assured you get the quantity you want, during the sale.

I have not had any problems ejecting any ammo in my 627-5 pro.
Your saying the cylinder also was hard to turn tells me the steel casings are junk. Possibly the head thickness could be to thick also and the casing just below the head could be bulged a bit also.
I had a bunch of bad factory reloads that had the above problems. Three different guns had problems locking up the cylinder movement because the head thickness was causing head to be tight against the recoil plate. Some rounds didn't even want to seat fully in the cylinder because of the bulged cases.
The reloader replaced all of the ammo including what I had shot. I did have a few from the replacement bunch that still gave me problems.

I have never used the moon clips with my 627. When I first got my 627 I wasn't impressed with the trigger. I lubed the internal parts and I also backed off the tension screw just a tad bit. I know some say don't do that but if Miculek does it then I am a go with it. I have had no light strikes or problems with it since. The trigger is IMO much better than my Python in DA. I actually shoot my 627 better than I can my Python.
I shoot 38 spl so much that I have started reloading my own now.
Personally I feel the 627 is a bit muzzle heavy and though the mat finish is nice looking I would rather have it in polished SS. I have thought about polishing it but I doubt I will do it. I have never shot or even held a 686 for comparison. I bought the 627 for the 8 shot cylinder. I seriously doubt I will ever carry this 627 because it is a big chunk of steel.

it's definitelly confirmed as ammo problem by emailing tulla support. They are aware of the issue. I bought 3 other brands and didn't have single issue since.

Problem Solved.
Lesson Learned?
Feed it right and it will be your friend forever.

__________________
Dave

Best way to deal with that if using Tulamo is to spray light film of synthetic lube in cylinder works every time.

Unfortunately, it appears autocorrect destroyed the key word in the only really useful reply in this thread so far. Steel cases are "lacquered" to prevent rusting. They run OK in an AK because the 7.62x39 cartridge is significantly tapered. Put them in an AR as .223 or 5.56x45, and when the chamber gets hot, the straighter wall of the free-world cartridge gets stuck in the chamber because the lacquer is softened and sticky. It's especially bad if the lacquer builds up in the chamber and leaves behind a layer.

So, transferring this knowledge to a revolver: It has a completely straight-walled case. Unlike a semi-auto pistol, where each round is only in the chamber long enough to be loaded from the magazine and then fired, the cases sit in the warm/hot cylinder the entire time from when they are loaded until the attempt to extract them. They don't move relative to the cylinder that whole time, so the lacquer is just melting in, sticking them quite effectively, as you found out. The straight walls mean that, rather than simply lifting away, you're trying to shear the entire stuck area at once.

So the problem isn't because the ammo is "cheap." Run brass-cased ammo that's nearly as cheap in the gun, and you can expect to not have the issue. The problem is that the lacquered steel case technology is particularly unsuited to use in a revolver. It's kinda like putting the wrong tires on a car. They don't fit, not because they're cheap, but because they're the wrong tires.

Addressing the post directly above this, it's generally not good to have lube on the outside of your ammo or the inside of your chamber. Normally, the expansion of the case against the chamber walls is a yuuuuge part of holding the case in the chamber until the pressure decreases. If there is lube present, the case can't grip the walls of the chamber, so much greater forces are applied to the bolt face (and frame, on a revolver) and lockup hardware.

A more troubling issue with steel-case ammo is that it usually has a bimetal jacket, meaning a mild-steel jacket with a few thousandths of an inch of copper plated onto it. AR and AK barrels are cheap and easy to swap out, so the savings in ammo can more than make up for wearing out a barrel a bit faster. But I wouldn't want to bet on the same calculus for an S&W revolver barrel.

I had the same issue myself.

Back in Dec, I decided that after years apart from the .357 magnum, it was time to get back in the saddle.

When I arrived at the dealer, they had not only a 627 "pro", but also a 686 Plus 7-rd, and a 686 SSR 6 rd. I laid them all out, handled them all, and int he end, I chose the 627.

I know the 627 is a "larger" firearm, but it sure doesn't feel that way compared to the other two. The SSR weighs in at 38.5oz, the 686 Plus at 38.2, and the 627 at 40.7 oz.

I immediately dropped the Plus because I didn't want the 5" barrel. It then came down tot he 627 and the SSR. It didn't take long for me to side with the 627. The size of the thing coupled with the 8 round cylinder really stood it out from the SSR. To add to that, they were the exact same price.

Long story short, I got it home, noticed the barrel crown was ****, and sent it back to S&W for rework. A month later, I got it back, then it went over to my gunsmith for internal rework.

Quick story on that, the DA pull on the thing felt "off". When I took the pistol to my gunsmith, without even touching the thing, the first thing out of his mouth was "I've had to rework quite a few new S&W revolvers lately, every time it's the hand, it's out of timing and fighting the ratchet at the end of the DA pull."

He pulled my pistol out of the box, played with it a few times, and confirmed that to be the case. He handed it back, had me DA pull the trigger telling me to pay close attention to the last 50% of the travel, had me open the cylinder, fake the cylinder close, and pull the trigger again sans cylinder. Huge difference. The pull was consistent throughout the cycle with no ramp up at the end.

I had him rework it but not to the point where it couldn't fire factory loads. He also smoothed out the trigger face. The DA pull is now buttery smooth and the SA pull, nothing something I use all that often, it silly light.

I got it back (again), replaced the lousy front sight with a hi-viz (much, MUCH) better, and replaced those awful Hogue finger grove grips with some Hogue smooth grips:

S&W N Round Butt Rubber Conversion No Finger Grooves Monogrip | Hogue Inc.

Since then I've shot the snot out of the thing. I've had it to the range every week for the past 4 weeks straight. I couldn't be happier with the final product.