Model 58 recoil issues with service grips.

[nframes4me]

I recently aquired a very nice model 58 in the original box with the original service grips and this is something I've wanted for a long time. A freind of mine in high school had one way back in 1965 and I shot his on a few occasions and really liked it.

When I fired mine with some old remington 210 grain softpoints it hurt like heck and rapped my middle finger knuckle really hard, and was hard to keep it from flying out of my hands.

It was then I remembered that these guns originally had a reduced "police Load" available when they wer being issued to police dept's, which is probably what my buddy in high school was using back then. Research has shown that there were actually two "police loads". The first one drove a 210 grain LSWC at 980 fps and the second drove the same bullet at 1100 fps.

I have come close to duplicating the first load's ballistics by using 7.7 grains of Unique but with a 210 grian Hornady XTP rather than a lead SWC.

The second thing I've done was to try to locate a Tyler T-grip adaptor. I sent a SASE to Tyler at the address they list on their website asking them if they were still in business but never heard back so I ordered a similar grip adaptor from BK grips and received it in short order. This device makes all the differenece in the world and I can probably up my load to 8.0 grains of unique if it turns out to be as accurate as my 7.7 grain load. This gun really looks "classic" with the t-grip adaptor and those things really work.

If I ever decide to take this gun with me in the woods for bear protection I plan on simply putting hogues on it for that purpose only and load a heavy hardcast bullet to the gills or otherwise use the 240 grain corbon load.

I tried a winchester 240 grain platinum tip load with a set of hogues that came with a model 28 that I have on the M58 and it was managable.

 

[mkk41]

Original Magnas are a cruel joke on any revolver with recoil above .38 S&W levels.

I put these Ahrends Boot grips on my 58 and while still not fun with full power loads , they make Winchester Silvertips or 'police load' equivalents more than managable.

 

[Iggy]

Welcome to the forum.. I bought a 58 back in 1966. The only ammo they had available was the hot stuff. I can relate to your pain.

I couldn't afford Targets on a cop's pay so I made a pair from scratch.
Carried the gun for 13 year and it looks it, but we both earned our scars honorably.

Your loads sound about right for some fun and accurate shooting. I carried Elmer's hot loads in mine when I was on duty and they lived up to their reputation.

 

[BCDWYO]

I too own a Model 58 and feel your pain. I know it isn't supposed to but I swear 41 mag has rougher recoil to me than a 44 mag! I switched the magnas out for some ugly Pachmayers which helped but it is still a handfull with hotter loads. I reload for 8 other calibers but haven't sprung for 41 dies yet, so pretty much all the factory ammo I've found seems pretty hot to me! Needless to say, as much as I admire it, the Model 58 doesn't see a lot of use by me...mostly resides in my safe.

By the way Iggy...what part of Wyo are you in? I'm a Sheridan boy myself but live in AZ now.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

OP (original poster): Welcome to the forum! I noticed that you didn't post a question, but, rather, an answer to a situation you found yourself in. I also noticed that it was a way-above-average practical answer with more than a bit of knowledge thrown in. I hope you like it here - I'm sure that some folks are going to be real glad you're here, once you start answering their questions.

BTW, I suspect that the grips you call service grips are what most of the folks around here call Magna grips or stocks. The service grips are the older style that don't come up above the round part of the cutout in the grip frame.

Again, welcome aboard!

 

[Combat]

I guess I'm just different. I've never had a problem shooting my 58 with magna grips on it. I've never shot super hot handloads, only factory bullets. I recently put a Tyler T on it but I have not shot it yet.

 

[Sportsterguy]

Magnas just plain suck when shooting magnums. The Tyler I put on it helps but my full coverage backstrap set of Pacs make a HUGE difference in comfortable shooting. I can shoot it with some hot loads with no problem, unlike a .44 magnum which is the opposite of what BC wrote. With the grips and a PAST shooting glove them magnums are FUN to shoot. Good money spent on that glove that tames the big boys.

Congrats on your new 58. They blow the new models out of the water.
Don't sell/trade it. EVER, or you WILL regret it as I did with my first one.

R/

Roger

 

[oldtimer]

58 load

I load 210 lead with 6 of 231, very accurate and can shot all day. I load up my long range 657, 45Lc and 629mag. with 231

 

[7tenz]

I tried service grips on a 4" Model 29 back in the 80's. I was a lot younger then and I actually liked them, but they loosened up after only a box of full power 44. If you plan on going full power in your 58 you should get something else for grips just for that reason.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

I have a great load for my .41s

A 210 grain lead bullet over 21 grains of Winchester 296. Soft shooting but plenty of power for most needs.

 

[nframes4me]

OP (original poster): Welcome to the forum! I noticed that you didn't post a question, but, rather, an answer to a situation you found yourself in. I also noticed that it was a way-above-average practical answer with more than a bit of knowledge thrown in. I hope you like it here - I'm sure that some folks are going to be real glad you're here, once you start answering their questions.

BTW, I suspect that the grips you call service grips are what most of the folks around here call Magna grips or stocks. The service grips are the older style that don't come up above the round part of the cutout in the grip frame.

Again, welcome aboard!

Thanks for the welcome and the clarification on terminology. I have a WWII lend-lease (british proof marks) M&P W/ 5" thin tapered barrel that has those 'service grips' (and also a lanyard ring) and I never knew what they were called.

The gun I have was originally a 38 S&W and had 38 Spec cylinder fitted to it back in the early 50's by a company called Vega Corp which is stamped on the inside of the topstrap.I was surprised that those grips are actually comfortable to shoot with 38 specials. The gun itself feels very light and has a nice balance and makes a good woods gun.

Can anyone tell me what year the Magna grips replaced the service grips?

As far as putting any grips on my M58 besides the magna grips with the T-grip, I know it allows me to use hotter ammo but to me it makes the gun look so ugly I can hardly stand to look at it. My preference would be to get a six inch model 57 with the "Target" stocks for shooting hotter ammo. I'm just too much a traditionalist for aftermarket grips,and teh target grips work well for me.

I also tried putting the magna grips on a 6 " model 28 I have and recoil wasn't as objectionable as with the 58, partly, no doubt because of barrel length.

Interesting to hear from an ex-LEO who carried one of these beauties as his duty gun. One thing a lot of people don't understand about why the 41 mag was first introduced was that at the time some police agencies had 357 mags but back then expanding or HP ammo was no yet approved for police use and the idea behind the 41 was to improve performance over a 357 firing solids by increasing bullet weight and diameter.

 

[kennyb]

glad to hear that you picked up a 41 mag.they are perhaps my fav.caliber and easy to reload for...i just picked up a M57 4" that appears unfired from aug.79...congrats!

 

[Sportsterguy]

glad to hear that you picked up a 41 mag.they are perhaps my fav.caliber and easy to reload for...i just picked up a M57 4" that appears unfired from aug.79...congrats!

Good for you kennyb! Another one. Pics coming? I'm on the prowl for a nickel 3.5" 27-2. Shooter grade will be just fine. Please let me know if you or anyone else runs into one.

 

[Revolver-time]

I too own a Model 58 and feel your pain. I know it isn't supposed to but I swear 41 mag has rougher recoil to me than a 44 mag! I switched the magnas out for some ugly Pachmayers which helped but it is still a handfull with hotter loads. I reload for 8 other calibers but haven't sprung for 41 dies yet, so pretty much all the factory ammo I've found seems pretty hot to me! Needless to say, as much as I admire it, the Model 58 doesn't see a lot of use by me...mostly resides in my safe.

By the way Iggy...what part of Wyo are you in? I'm a Sheridan boy myself but live in AZ now.

I agree completely with you! I have a 29 and a 57 both with 8 3/8" barrels and I know the 41 mag hurts my hand after a few rounds. I can shoot the heavier bad boys like a 480 Ruger and a 454 Taurus just fine but that model 57 just plan hurts.

 

[Satoken]

Well, I guess everyone's hands are different. M58 is my carry gun and still has the original Magna on it. I just hate the bulk of the target. 240gr@1,100fps does'n hurt me at all.

 

[bnewc75]

41 & 44 mags

with wood stocks are both finger beaters... change them out with rubber grips for shooting but don't loose the orginals

 

[StatesRightist]

I have a 57 Mountain Gun that was a hand full, I ordered the 500 Magnum grips from S&W, tamed it down to a reasonable level. My advice, order the 500 grips, put the wood grips in the closet in case you want to sell it one day.

 

[bgrafsr]

I use Herrett's Jordan Troopers on my 58 & all other guns that I shoot, be they .357 Magnum, .41 Mag., 44. Spl. & Mag., and .45 Colt. The Troopers make a world of difference in handling the recoil.

 

[DGNY]

Welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy many range sessions with your Model 58. Many of us would like to find a 58 in shooter condition, but not too common at shows.

I expect someone with details will be along to answer your question about the transition date from service grips to Magnas, which were an attempt at a target grip, as I see it. As a preliminary stab, '36-'40 for the K and N frames [dependent on precise model] and have no good idea on the I/J frames.

By the way, I am one who actually enjoys Magnas on N frames in .357 and .41. Even use smooth Magnas on round butt .41 Mountain Gun. Probably due to how everyone's respective hands are sized. On heavy loads in 4" 629, I use slender targets [unknown maker - from a forum member a while back].

Regards,

Dyson

 

[Retired W4]

It appears the Magnas were introduced in the 1935-1936 time frame. That comes from a quick search in SCSW.