Browning A-5 SBS

Years ago I got hit hard in a burglary loseing many guns. Two of about 9 showed up. The detective called me and said he had a gun of mine but couldnt give it to me as it had been chopped. I went down, identified it, and said lets unscrew the barrel and give me the action.
This guy was serious as you can see! I went the court and looked him over, also about got threw out as I got up to try and tell the judge many more guns were involved. Judge shined me on, told me to shut up and go see the DA. That went no where!

edited for correctness

ElToro said:

that thing is FREAKING COOL ! a serious home defense rig ! ok. im goona seriously look into doing mine.

my old beater A5 that i got for $150 is cut to 18.5 inches and the buttstock is standard, but i could go a few more inches and keep it legal ( for now). i too want to cut it down as short as yours and have a metal or hard plasatic butt plate to avoid binding.

It is my understanding that even in commie PRK, a SBS can be made by way of a special trust and a C&R gun only (my A5 dates to 1920's) and the tax stamp of course. your finished product is so awesome!!

Can you send the barrel to Briley and have a screw-in choke made or is it too wide at 14 inches ? how does it pattern otherwise ?

what is your total overall length ?

what did you do to "custom mark" the receiver ? or do you mark the barrel or both ?

Tim

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Be careful! As I understand it, legal shotgun barrel length is 18 inches. You don't have much to spare.

Forester is right. Anything less than 18 inches puts the weapon under the regulations of the NFA, and you must have the approved and tax stamped Form one back in hand before cutting the bbl.

Someone asked about the buttplate. That was worked down with a belt sander. I am not sure how well that would work on a horn buttplate and I was scared to try it, but it worked fine on the later vintage FN buttplate that I used. Also keep in mind that you can only cut the stock so short and still be able to use an original buttplate. Cut it too short and the stock would be so small that the screw holes would be past the edges of the stock.

I wish I had taken pictures as the work progressed but I didn't. I promise that my next project will have pics before, after and during.

This may be a silly question, but that never stopped me in the past. As to the required markings of your name and address, what happens if you move?

Thanks for the great thread.

LoadedRound said:

This may be a silly question, but that never stopped me in the past. As to the required markings of your name and address, what happens if you move?

Thanks for the great thread.

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The name and address of any maker is required on all guns. If that maker changes addresses that does not change where it was made.

However with NFA weapons you are required to notify the NFA branch of ATF of your new address. If you are also moving across a stateline you must check to make sure your weapon is legal there and a form 5320 must be submitted for approval before the NFA item can be transported out of state.

All the info here on doing a F1 for a SBS, SBR, etc, is pretty much on target, so I've got nothing to add. However, for the guy in CA, I believe you will also need a state permit, which is virtually impossible to obtain. I think you may be after the impossible.

Steave, you very well may be right about Ca. State laws can be much more restrictive than Federal law on NFA weapons. In some jurisdictions no NFA is allowed, in others, certain items are prohibited but not others. Fortunately my state is NFA friendly. There are no restrictions beyond that imposed by federal law. Back in 2003 we even got a bill passed that requires the CLEO to sign off as long as you are a law abiding citizen. It is not discretionary.

I'd like to have that exact gun, only in the legal 18.5" barrel length, so as to avoid the paperwork. A5's are cool guns; my Dad has a 1957 vintage model he bought new, and it is FLAWLESS. Way too nice to chop up, but there are beaters out there, if nothing else, use a Remington Model 11.

NKJ nut said:

The name and address of any maker is required on all guns. If that maker changes addresses that does not change where it was made.

However with NFA weapons you are required to notify the NFA branch of ATF of your new address. If you are also moving across a stateline you must check to make sure your weapon is legal there and a form 5320 must be submitted for approval before the NFA item can be transported out of state.

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Thanks. I learned a lot in this thread.

Really nice job!
Is the transfer tax upon resale of it $200 again, or does it get the cheap rate like an AOW.

IIRC you could avoid the need for the CLEO sign off if you are applying for an NFA tax stamp in the name of a Corporation. Is that still true?

Not that everyone is in that position but there are a fair number of people that are business owners that are and it can be one way to side step an otherwise uncooperative local Sheriff or Chief of Police.

Also when cutting down an A5 and most other semi auto shotguns, there is a limit to how short they can be cut.
The bolt return spring and it's housing extends into the butt stock some distance and not a few people have unexpectedly found it with a hacksaw in an attempt to make a pistol grip stock out of it.

let me be clear, the few inches i was referring to was overall length, but still keepinging it 26+ inches overall. i would like to cut my stock down some more. my barell is still 18.5, i would NEVER do anything illegal until it was all approved.
thanks
Tim

nope the 200 fee continues on to the next individual...

as far as a trust one can set a trust up with a 20.00 program... there are pluses and minuses to a trust so ya may want to search about them and their pro's and cons... I was gonna set one up for another suppressor purchase but to bring the others into the trust would require more transfer tax's. It might be worth it if I had immediate family but for now I am not so sure.

I do want to get a .22 muzzle can this year. I have put it off long enough!

on a thread on calguns, they were discussing whether using teh available Trust software for a NFA trust was a good idea or not. i think i will err on the side of caution and have a real CA attorney doing it. and pay a bit more. this is not like a family trust that you put your house title and bank account assets into. if somebody screws this up you could go to real prison. plus once the tust is established, a one time fee, you can amortize the cost of each successive NFA fun gun down.

Unless the gun is an NFA weapon federal law requires a bbl. length of 18 inches and an OAL of 26 inches. With NFA though there is no such restriction.

The $200 tax will also apply to all subsequent transfers, except for a legal heir. But that person must still do the paperwork.

A shotgun or rifle that left the factory with a stock can not become an AOW, except with a very few exceptions. None of whicjh apply here. In shotguns that would be limited to those that left the factory without a stock or with ONLY a pistol grip. For an individual to build an AOW shotgun or any other type of AOW the tax stamp is $200. After that it can not have a stock added with out re-registering it and paying the $200. The $5 tax stamp only applies to transfers of AOW's.

El Toro, I didn't mean to imply that you wanted to do something illegal and I don't think Forester did either. We just don't want someone who reads this thread to misinterpret and do something illegal.

How short can the stock be cut; some have asked. I can't give you an exact length, but the A-5's I am most familar with; The "Lights" have the buttstock hollowed out. It should be possible to cut all of the stock off with the hollowed out area and still be safe. Of course that will leave a very short stock and unless you have very short arms you can forget shooting the gun from the shoulder. If you have a stock that is solid you could remove the stock and see how far the spring extends down into the stock then allow a few extra inches further back for making the cut. In no case will you have a true pistol brip configuration but you can cut the stock down shorter than mine.

As for using a trust, corp. or LLC for NFA purposes, it is a possibility and some go that route. It does do away with the fingerprint requirements and the CLEO signoff requirement. I would caution anyone who does this to consult an attorney who is familiar with NFA trusts. The reason is that ATF has challenged the validity of some of these trusts, even after sending back the stamped and approved paperwork. In other words they allowed the transfer but then questioned the validity of ownership. I would spend the time and money necessary to make sure that the trust was valid for NFA purposes and not just for ordinary assets. I am not trying to scare anyone away from going the trust rt, but not all trusts are created equal when it comes to NFA. There are in fact advantages to going the trust rt at least for some people and it is an option worth considering. For more information on NFA trusts go here:

NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman

On that pump I showed earlier on this thread that was stold from me and sawed off: The guy was a con on parole and/or probation and found with my gun in california. I went to court when he was run through the system. I dont think the proceedings lasted a minute or two. Yeah, he went home to the big house but there wasnt one word said about the illegal sawed off, as I said before I got up to protest or add info about all the guns I lost with that one. Judge shut me up, didnt want to hear from me! Now had I been found with that gun, no record at all, I bet they would have jacked the jail up, rolled me under, let it down, and throw away the key! Sure makes you respect the system!!

feralmerril said:

......had I been found with that gun, no record at all, I bet they would have jacked the jail up, rolled me under, let it down, and throw away the key! Sure makes you respect the system!!

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The big legal difference between you and him was that he was probably already a convicted felon. Registering a gun (as is required of NFA weapons) would be considered self incrimination. Criminals are not required to incriminate themselves. Since you are not a criminal you would not receive such consideration. A convicted felon could still be charged and convicted under the GCA of '68 for being a felon in possession of a firearm but hanging an NFA violation on him wouldn't be so easy. Unlike us law abiding folks where possession equals violation equals conviction equals hard time. Yeah, I agree it is a pitiful situation.

Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bonnie & Clyde Whippet shotgun, Browning A-5.

whitecoyote said:

Bonnie & Clyde Whippet shotgun, Browning A-5.

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Well? have you shot it? What do you think? BTW, what length is that barrel?

NKJ nut said:

Well? have you shot it? What do you think? BTW, what length is that barrel?

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I'm to busy this week. I'll try to get out next week.
I will give you a range report when I do shoot it.

Barrel is 18.5".