W296/H110 interchangeable?

jkc · Dec 13, 2011

Evidently, drollery and sardonic humor are not as easily recognized here in the Reloading forum, as they are, say, in The Lounge. In future, I'll try to remember to use those silly emoticon smiley face things as a clue to when I'm just kidding.

Thanks for all the well-informed replies, by the way.

Skip Sackett · Dec 14, 2011

Well, it is a bit disconcerting when our hobby is being attacked in every venue known to man with the threat of legal action because of some "thing" or another and then have someone come to the part of the forum and "joke" about doing just that.

If it was truly humor, I didn't see it, and for that I apologize. When dealing with handloading/reloading I am a bit sensitive when I don't know if folks are kidding. Of course, the lounge is full of jokers, and of my post count, there may be one or two posts outside of this section of the forum so.............I can't really tell you what goes on there.

rewster · Dec 14, 2011

Well, I for one am glad that is settled. Maybe, now, we can get back to HP-38/Win231 and it's interchangeability !!

sheriffoconee · Dec 14, 2011

I just want to know if W296 or H110 are suitable for bear defense loads???

Troystat · Dec 14, 2011

I would stay away from 296 or 110 loads and stick to +P loads in a 9mm or .38 special for bears (much more powerful) Just kidding

Always fun to read another 296/110 post.

jkc · Dec 14, 2011

sheriffoconee said:
I just want to know if W296 or H110 are suitable for bear defense loads???

Possibly, but what species of bears, and if it's so-called "black" bears you're concerned about, we'll need to know which color phases you may encounter, to proffer an informed opinion... These bears, as you may know, are not interchangeable...

By the way, whichever powder you choose, the .22 Hornet is inadequate for any color phase ...

trauma1 · Dec 14, 2011

hmmm! Always check your manuals regardless! Powder companies do not always use the same bullets to test their powders. just because H110 and W296 is reported to be the same powder does not mean one should interchange them without due caution. always refer back to the source!

Skip Sackett · Dec 15, 2011

Reloading rule #1: If you change a component, any component, reduce load and work back up to an acceptable level.

Granted, the suggested 3% for these two powders doesn't give you much room to reduce but, that is a good thing, in my opinion.

Listen, physics being what it is, and this is just me, but, I don't think you can get enough H110/W296 in a case that is designed for a magnum load to blow up a gun by creating too much pressure.

Double or triple charges of a fast powder? Oh, yeah, now that can be done pretty easily.

In most cases (as in instances) a full charge of H110/W296 is going to fill the case (cartridge) almost to the base of the bullet. By the time you put enough in it to hit the bottom of the bullet, there isn't enough added to get the pressure to twice what the cartridge is rated for which is what SAAMI says is supposed to be the rated burst pressure of the firearm designed for that cartridge.

Can you get to pressure signs? Yeah, you can get flattened primers and sticky extraction but at that point, you are still nowhere near twice cartridge pressure.

Can you blow up a gun with H110/W296? Sure! Run a reduced load, have a squib followed by a round that goes off at its full reduced potential and you are going to test your frame pretty well.

Now, I need to qualify this statement a bit but, I don't load for the 454 Casul, 460 S&W Mag, so I cannot speak to those cases.

Just my thoughts on the matter though.

beach elvis · Dec 15, 2011

In the next-to-most recent Lyman manual, under .44mag, it lists a max of 24.5 gr. of H110 under a 240gr. JHP and 23.5 gr. minimum.

I loaded a batch of an even 24 gr. and got flattened primers and sticky cases in my 629 Classic DX. I looked up the parameters for W296 and it listed a min. of 23 gr. I went with that for my next batch since both powders are the same. The primer and case issues went away.

Oddly enough, that load was the favorite of both my 629 Classic DX and my Marlin 1894. Go figga!

rewster · Dec 15, 2011

sheriffoconee said:
I just want to know if W296 or H110 are suitable for bear defense loads???

First you'll have to tell us what caliber the bear is using and what he wants to defend against !

Skip Sackett · Dec 15, 2011

rewster said:
First you'll have to tell us what caliber the bear is using and what he wants to defend against !

Now THIS is funny! hahahaha

Nemo288 · Dec 17, 2011

beach elvis said:
In the next-to-most recent Lyman manual, under .44mag, it lists a max of 24.5 gr. of H110 under a 240gr. JHP and 23.5 gr. minimum.

I loaded a batch of an even 24 gr. and got flattened primers and sticky cases in my 629 Classic DX. I looked up the parameters for W296 and it listed a min. of 23 gr. I went with that for my next batch since both powders are the same. The primer and case issues went away.

Oddly enough, that load was the favorite of both my 629 Classic DX and my Marlin 1894. Go figga!

I have stepped back one grain on my W296 loads as of recent.
The accuracy is the same or better and the pressure is "normal".
These are .44 loads. 23 instead of 24 under a 240. 26 instead
of 27 under a 200.
Why tickle the dragon?

---
Nemo

ArchAngelCD · Dec 17, 2011

trauma1 said:
hmmm! Always check your manuals regardless! Powder companies do not always use the same bullets to test their powders. just because H110 and W296 is reported to be the same powder does not mean one should interchange them without due caution. always refer back to the source!

That makes no sense at all. If the powders are the same they are the same. No matter what you should always work up loads when using new components but the powder itself is the same no matter what label is on the jar. Only lot number variations will exist. W296 and H110 is exactly the same powder, CASE CLOSED for the 100th time!!!

NKJ nut · Dec 17, 2011

ArchAngelCD said:
That makes no sense at all. If the powders are the same they are the same. No matter what you should always work up loads when using new components but the powder itself is the same no matter what label is on the jar. Only lot number variations will exist. W296 and H110 is exactly the same powder, CASE CLOSED for the 100th time!!!

Correct. It's just a matter of which label you like best. personally I like the one that costs a little less.

Anyone who thinks there is a difference needs to visit Hodgdon's site. Bring us back a list of all the calibers where you encounter different data for H110 and W296 on that site. Same for HP38 and W231 and some more.

Skip Sackett · Dec 17, 2011

Are you trying to say that we cannot discuss the possibility that there might be or possibly a bit of difference?

NKJ nut · Dec 17, 2011

Skip Sackett said:
Are you trying to say that we cannot discuss the possibility that there might be or possibly a bit of difference?

No, I just invited anyone to use the Hodgdon data, to show us that difference. I am still waiting right along with you

If that isn't good enough, call Hodgdon and ask them. If that isn't enough to convince anyone that they are the same powders, then I don't know what would.

Got to go; getting ready for the big Y3K panic

ArchAngelCD · Dec 18, 2011

Skip Sackett said:
Are you trying to say that we cannot discuss the possibility that there might be or possibly a bit of difference?

Not at all only that it's been done so many times already I can't imagine anything different could be added to the conversation. Opinions can be changed, facts are just that, facts...

Skip Sackett · Dec 18, 2011

Yeah, I know, I was just being silly. Excuse the attempt at humor!

NKJ nut · Dec 18, 2011

ArchAngelCD said:
Opinions can be changed, facts are just that, facts...

True enough about facts, but they can be ignored. Don't ya' think?

W296/H110 interchangeable?

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