Long Action, Short Action?

O2Guy · Dec 8, 2011

There is an old M&P at a pawn shop that has my eye. I know very little about these revolvers. I have seen the long action/short action description and could someone explain this to me? Is one better/worse than the other?
Also, are the M&P's K frame? To my untrained eye, the frame looks larger, maybe N frame.

DCWilson · Dec 8, 2011

The long action was used up until 1948 in K-frame revolvers and until 1950 in N-frame guns. Many people think that the long action feels smoother than the short action. The advantages of the short action are a faster hammer fall, which is said to provide marginally more accurate firearm performance because there is a microsecond or two less for the muzzle to waver before the hammer hits the primer.

Long action revolvers tend to have hammer spurs that originate high on the hammer block. Short action guns have hammers whose spurs originate from a lower position on the hammer body.

All .38 M&Ps were K-frames. There were N-frame models called "Military" in .44 and .45 calibers, but not .38. The best way to tell the difference between a K-frame .38 and an N-frame .38 is the presence of an ejector rod shroud under the barrel. The N-frame .38s have the shroud, and the model is called the .38/44 Heavy Duty. K-frame M&Ps have no shroud, and the ejector rod hangs exposed below the barrel.

CptCurl · Dec 9, 2011

Does someone have the specs on the difference in hammer throw between long action K's and N's as compared to short action K's and N's in degrees of arc? I would be interested to know for both single action and double action.

Thanks.

The Real Hawkeye · Dec 1, 2014

CptCurl said:
Does someone have the specs on the difference in hammer throw between long action K's and N's as compared to short action K's and N's in degrees of arc? I would be interested to know for both single action and double action.

Thanks.

Someone will be by shortly to answer your question. Just keep waiting.

DWalt · Dec 1, 2014

The "Official" change from long action to short action in the M&P K-frame production was given as SN S990184 on 4/7/48 (1st Short Action). However, there are higher M&P SNs known having the long action. Such transition periods are typical, as older parts stockpiles are used up. The visual appearance of the hammer indicates which is which. I believe the short-action N-frame revolvers also started at about early 1948, but I am not sure about that. All of the Post-WWII K-series Masterpiece revolvers will have the short action.

The K-frame .38 target revolver of 1946 (prior to the K-series), AKA the "Mexican Model," had the old long action. However, it is highly unlikely you will ever run across one of those.

JP@AK · Dec 1, 2014

DWalt said:
The "Official" change from long action to short action in the M&P K-frame production was given as SN S990148 on 4/7/48 (1st Short Action).

I believe this to be a typo by DWalt. The number should read: S990184.
However, I have compiled a fairly large (and growing) database on these revolvers and the lowest number I have cataloged so far with the high speed hammer is S992366. It belongs to a Forum member.
And, as DWalt has stated, there are guns with known serial numbers higher than the listed number that have the older long throw.

DWalt · Dec 1, 2014

Yes it was a typo. I am sometimes dyslectic.

jw mathews · Dec 1, 2014

On the N-frames, the short-action versions were cataloged as "1950" models prior to the adoption of model numbers in 1957. I don't know eactly when the short-action N-frames began production, but some could very well have been made before 1950--similar to autos being manufactured several months prior to the beginning of their "model year" designation.

I own a few long-action N-frames (Triple Lock .44, 1917 .45, 2d Model HE .44 and 1926 Model .44) and personally prefer the short-action models as being smoother in double-action shooting. However, I prefer the long-action K-frames for DA compared to the newer K-frames. Just my opinion.

05CarbonDRZ · Dec 1, 2014

Nothing smoother than a Pre War N Frame long action,Its like the Hammer and Trigger are on Ball Bearings.This is due to the amount of hand fitting that they received....The good Ol' Days,No MIM Junk.

jtcarm · Dec 1, 2014

All things being equal, I don't see why the long action would be inherently smoother. Unless the relationship of the parts were changed to where the mainspring is doing more work at some point in the pull.

Not being an engineer, I will stop right there.

The Real Hawkeye · Dec 1, 2014

jtcarm said:
All things being equal, I don't see why the long action would be inherently smoother. Unless the relationship of the parts were changed to where the mainspring is doing more work at some point in the pull.

Not being an engineer, I will stop right there.

Increased leverage makes the long action feel smoother, i.e., less effort is required per a given distance of travel.

jtcarm · Dec 2, 2014

The Real Hawkeye said:
Increased leverage makes the long action feel smoother, i.e., less effort is required per a given distance of travel.

That makes sense.

Thanks!

Rick_A · Dec 2, 2014

05CarbonDRZ said:
Nothing smoother than a Pre War N Frame long action,Its like the Hammer and Trigger are on Ball Bearings.This is due to the amount of hand fitting that they received....The good Ol' Days,No MIM Junk.

Easy there. Some of us enjoy our "junk" just the same.

SDH · Dec 2, 2014

Short and Long Actions, Cocked & Fired

These pics show N Frame .44s from (left-right) Third, Long Action circa 1938: Third, Transition Long Action, Circa 1947 : and M-1950, Short Action circa 1953. Fired in the first photo, cocked in the second.

Different hammers and length of hammer throw is obvious. The easiest way to tell the difference is to look at the hammers, they are Different.

Long Action, Short Action?

O2Guy

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DCWilson

CptCurl

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The Real Hawkeye

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DWalt

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JP@AK

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DWalt

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jw mathews

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05CarbonDRZ

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jtcarm

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The Real Hawkeye

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jtcarm

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Rick_A

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SDH

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