Backlighting
Member
I've been running in my semi-auto Thunderbolts and Golden Bullets for the last few weeks and find about 1 out of 15-20 rounds are ftf. Is this normal? What's your experience?
What's acceptable FTF on inexpensive .22lr?
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StakeOut
US Veteran
I bought a few 1400 rd buckets of Golden bullets last year and have hd no issues shooting them in a 15-22.
In my SR22 I use mini mags after issues of failure to eject(2-3/100 with M22 and much higher failure to feed and eject rate with blue box Federal Champion.
I have no 1st hand experience with Thunderbolts.
In my SR22 I use mini mags after issues of failure to eject(2-3/100 with M22 and much higher failure to feed and eject rate with blue box Federal Champion.
I have no 1st hand experience with Thunderbolts.
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I don't think it's acceptable that any of them FTF but it seems to be the norm with .22LR ammo. I don't think I've ever taken out a .22 and not had at least a few rounds that didn't fire.
As a kid, our father would give us one or two 50 round boxes at the range to shoot and that was it. We would keep recycling the dud's until they eventually would go off. After we shot up all our ammo, we would start digging thru the piles of spent shells on the ground looking for more dud's. Kept us out of trouble.
As a kid, our father would give us one or two 50 round boxes at the range to shoot and that was it. We would keep recycling the dud's until they eventually would go off. After we shot up all our ammo, we would start digging thru the piles of spent shells on the ground looking for more dud's. Kept us out of trouble.
Zero. It does happen, but if it does I suspect all the ammo in that batch.
A failure to fire due to my gun is to me a defect and need immediate remedy.
A failure to fire due to my gun is to me a defect and need immediate remedy.
Kenny D
Member
I think your gun just doesn't like the Remington ammo or there is something wrong with the gun. You need to try different brands of ammo to see if that is the problem.
rockquarry
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I haven't used Remington Thunderbolt .22 ammo in a long time. I don't recall any that didn't fire, but it was certainly among the most inaccurate ammo on the market some years back in both handgun and rifle. Maybe it has improved in that regard. After trying many cheap/bulk ammos, I've found you usually get what you pay for.
franzas
Member
Thunderbolts are junk. In my experience they are prone to FTF. Also accuracy is horrible and powder charge seems inconsistent.
M E Morrison
Member
The Thunderbolt ammo from 10 ~ 15 years ago was a whole lot better than the stuff I see today.
Typical bulk ammo results which is fine for plinking ammo.Try the more expensive brands for better results
cadmike
Member
1 out of 20 is entirely unacceptable IMO that is very frustrating. As others have said try different brands of ammo. With the bulk brands it wouldn't surprise me to have 1 or 2 FTF per thousand but 1 out of 20 is crazy. Good luck.
rockquarry
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Try CCI Standard Velocity. It works and is more accurate than bulk stuff. It costs more, but it's worth it. There are a few others, all slightly less accurate overall than CCI SV, but they may be worth trying: Aguila SV, Blazer, and Winchester SV or HV (not Winchester bulk).
I've shot several bulk packs of recent Thunderbolts - I consider them reliable like 1 or 2 defects per pack. My target rifle has a tight chamber and occasionally I have to use the camming action of the bolt to get a Thunderbolt in. Model 63, Browning Nomad, Henry lever gun, really no problems with TB's.
DocB
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I don't shoot 22's much any more, so I guess I'm out of touch. When I started shooting as a kid of 14, the 22 is what I shot and hunted with. Lived with one on my belt most of the time around the South Georgia rivers and swamps. By the time I was 18 I had put thousands of rounds through my pistol and rifle. Never had one FTF ever! My friends were all like me and also shot thousands of rounds. I never heard of one FTF. Now, WWII surplus ammo failed a lot. I had an Italian Carcano. My father told me just to pull the bad round and stick it in the ground bullet down. There are many rounds all around the swamps probably still there stuck in the ground.
rockquarry
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Any cartridge that doesn't fire the first time should be considered unacceptable performance.
I don't have many pet peeves but this is one of them.
"Don't use an acronym when the meaning or context is unclear."
FTF?
Do you mean "Failure To Feed" or "Failure To Fire"?
I suspect the latter, but the former is a more common usage of "FTF".
"FTE" is another ambiguous acronym that is way over used. It can mean "Failure To Extract" or the slight later in the process "Failure To Eject".
It only takes a few more seconds to type it out and be clear in your question.
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I regard more than a single failure to fire per box of 50 to be about the norm in plinking ammo, and more or less acceptable. More than that, I start looking at why.
- If it goes bang on a second attempt, it's probably a light strike issue caused by the firearm, although some brands have harder rims than others so brand can play a role.
- If it doesn't go bang second time and I reiterate the cartridge and try a another strike on the opposite side of the rim, and it goes bang, it's probably a result of primer compound not being evenly distributed around the rim.
- If it won't go bang at all it's an absence of primer compound in the rim.
Medium and high quality match ammo goes bang virtually all the time and I find any failure to fire to be unacceptable. Basically, match ammo is much more consistent in velocity (lower standard deviation) and it's generally graded by the number of fliers. For example with SK Standard Plus, I expect two uncalled fliers when shooting a pair of A-23 targets with sighters - about 60 rounds total. When I step up to SK Rifle Match, I expect that to fall to no uncalled fliers, and if I step down in quality to SK Magazine, I expect 3-4 fliers per box of 50 - but I expect them all to go bang and I can't recall the last failure to fire I had with SK anything. I'm sure I've had one but it's been years ago.
The increased potential for primer failure and the potential for rim lock in some magazine designs are two key reasons why .22LR makes a poor choice for self defense - in addition to its lack of penetration and small wound tracks.
That makes life interesting if the range goes cold with a round in the chamber as it usually won't extract from a tight chamber.
I shoot better stuff in my target rifles and precision .22 LRs. SK Std Plus is about the base level.
I save the Remington Thunderbolts and Golden Bullets for plinking with my S&W Model 17 and my Beretta Model 70 as they both seem to like it just fine - it's 1 1/4" at 25 yards accurate in the Model 17 and feeds very reliably in the Model 70.
Seven High
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Backlighting: Your rate of misfires is way too high. I would suspect gunk in the firing pin channel which would slow down the firing pin.
In my limited experience, I would consider 1 in 15-20 to be cause for decision. Either that's bad ammo, or bad ammo in that gun. Only once have I found rimfire ammo that was bad in everything that I tried it in.
IIRC, the only ammo that always worked well was CCI, but there may be an exception to that, too. The only rule with .22LR is that there are no rules.
IIRC, the only ammo that always worked well was CCI, but there may be an exception to that, too. The only rule with .22LR is that there are no rules.
You don't say what kind of gun you are shooting, but that's a too-high rate of failures. I haven't shot Thunderbolts in a while because I've read enough complaints about them to convince me not to shoot them. However, the gun can also play a role in such failures. My ancient (1938) H&R Expert target revolver will fire anything. My semi-ancient (1974) Ruger Standard has been much more picky about ammo. Until I sent it back to the factory for an overhaul (new ejector and extractor), it would reliably fire only higher-velocity rounds, 1300 fps (feet per second for BB57
) or faster. After the overhaul, it's now as reliable as my H&R. Check your gun to make sure all systems are working properly.As to the ammo I do shoot, I've found CCI Mini-Mags to be the best of the mass-produced readily available .22lr cartridges. However, my absolute favorites are CCI Stingers. They are easily the most accurate rounds I shoot from my Ruger, possibly due to their 1600+ fps velocities. They also make a really cool muzzle flash. The downside is that they're expensive and sometimes hard to find.
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