45LC and 45 ACP compare

HKSmith said:

Although your reamed out cylinder may accept .45 Colt cartridges, you will have excessive headspace. Headspace for a rimmed revolver cartridge is the distance from the rear of the cylinder to the recoil shield. The correct rimmed cartridge for your revolver is the thick-rimmed .45 Auto Rim cartridge. The much thinner rimmed .45 Colt cartridge may not fire properly because the firing pin may not reach the primer. Worse, the excessive headspace could lead to bulged or blown out cases.

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Yeah, I noticed that about the headspacing due to the thin rims. I'm confident there won't be a problem with the 45 Colts not firing. The hammer nose appears to have been made a little longer to compensate - long enough that it just slightly perforates 45 acp primers. I don't plan on loading much above the minimum so I seriously doubt that there will be any blowout issues, but we'll see how well it works.

The correct way (if there is such a thing) is to rechamber the .45 ACP chamber with a .45 Colt cutter, but a little short of full depth. The rear end of the .45 Colt case sticks out slightly, preserving the proper headspace, as the .45 Colt case headspaces on the case mouth, not the case rim. This is not dangerous, except to the collector value of the revolver. I would not crimp, it is not needed for standard or lighter loadings.

The original .45 Colt and .45 Schofield cartridges were designed for black powder, and the longer case length was necessary to get the MV desired. The .45 ACP never used BP, only smokeless powder. As smokeless powder is more efficient in a smaller volume case, it wasn't at all difficult to come up with .45 ACP ballistics which were comparable to those of the .45 Colt and .45 Schofield. For all intents and purposes, the .45 ACP has equivalent ballistics to the older standard .45 Colt revolver loads.

Ballistics of the .45 Colt can be greatly improved with smokeless powder in cartridges such as the .454 Casull, but only if the revolver is designed to handle the far greater chamber pressure produced.

I load .45 Colt with a .45 ACP carbide die set, but I neck size the cases only (about 1/3d the case length), not full length. That helps case life. I also de-prime as a separate operation using a .45-70 die.

BC38 said:

WOW! Talk about a timely thread!

I have an old 1917 commercial I picked up recently that has been reamed to accept 45 Colt. I've shot it with 45acp & moon clips, but I haven't tried it with 45 Colt rounds yet. I just picked up some 45 Colt brass at the gun show yesterday so I can give it a go.

I'm going to load them using my 45acp dies. I think they can be adjusted to load 45 Colt - at least I hope so. I've already set them up and resized, de-primed, flared and a couple cases and it all looks good to go.

The only thing I'm a little uncertain of is the crimping, but I'm pretty sure my Lee FCD taper-crimp die can be adjusted to work. I'd rather apply a roll crimp, but I think the taper should get the job done just fine.

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It can be done. I use my Hornady 45 acp dies and Lee f.c.d. and it works fine.

Thanks for the confirmation of loading the 45 Colt with my 45acp dies DWalt and Beardog. Good to hear from others who have already done it, that my theory works in practice. If I decide that I really like shooting the 45 Colts I'll probably get a set of dedicated dies for them. At this point it is just a "because I can" kind of experiment, since the old 1917 is the only thing I have that will take the 45 Colt round.

I have a pair of Colt M1909s as my only.45 Colt revolvers at present. Pretty much identical to the Colt version of the M1917 (I have one of those also) except for the chambering, both models are really Colt New Service revolvers.

Try a Ruger Blackhawk.45 Convertable

robvious said:

the "easy answer" is to get a 625 chambered in 45 Colt and have it cut for moonclips so you can find out for yourself... I did not realize this so I ended up with a 625 in each caliber... oh well, not so bad... and like so many have stated... off the shelf ammo "feels" about the same in each...

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Just so happens I was out this morning with my Ruger. 45 Colt was a load of 7 grains of Unique with a cast 250RNFP-45ACP was Federal 230 FMJ Match ammo from 2003 made for the Gov't. 45Colt was a nice gentle recoil, ACP was a sharper heavier recoil.
Not quite comparing apples to apples but just thought I would give my $0.02.

BC38 said:

I have an old 1917 commercial I picked up recently that has been reamed to accept 45 Colt. I've shot it with 45acp & moon clips, but I haven't tried it with 45 Colt rounds yet. I just picked up some 45 Colt brass at the gun show yesterday so I can give it a go.

I'm going to load them using my 45acp dies. I think they can be adjusted to load 45 Colt - at least I hope so. I've already set them up and resized, de-primed, flared and a couple cases and it all looks good to go.

The only thing I'm a little uncertain of is the crimping, but I'm pretty sure my Lee FCD taper-crimp die can be adjusted to work. I'd rather apply a roll crimp, but I think the taper should get the job done just fine.

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While you can make the 45 ACP dies work, why? You have a very nice revolver and some brand new 45 Colt brass. Why not just get a set of 45 Colt dies so that you are sure you can produce the best ammo possible. If the ammo is not accurate what is to blame, the gun or the dies?

If price is an issue you can buy a new set of Lee 45 Colt Carbide dies for only $29.49.
Carbide : Lee Precision Carbide 3-Die Set .45 Colt

If you don't want to buy Lee RCBS has them on sale for $44.99 on Midway USA right now and the Hornady dies are $42.99
Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension Nitride 3-Die Set 45 - MPN: 546582

RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set 45 Colt (Long Colt) - MPN: 19112

ArchAngelCD said:

While you can make the 45 ACP dies work, why? You have a very nice revolver and some brand new 45 Colt brass. Why not just get a set of 45 Colt dies so that you are sure you can produce the best ammo possible...

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Looks like you must have missed post #24 above - where I specifically addressed that question

BTW, I don't have a bunch of brand new 45 Colt brass either - I picked up a box and a half worth of once-fired brass at the gun show last weekend for $10.

The gun isn't really a "nice" one either. It's previous owner had it bumper-chromed because it was rust-pitted. It's just an old shooter that I bought to play around with.

Thanks for the links to the dies. If I like how the 45 Colt rounds shoot out of the old gun I may pick up a set.

Just in case anyone was interested, I loaded 15 rounds of 45 Colt with 230gr LRN and AA#2. I loaded 5 each with 5.5gr, 5.7gr, and 5.9gr. I used my Lee 45 ACP 4 piece die set. I was able to apply a good firm crimp with the FCD. Although it is a taper crimp die, I cranked it down a turn or so farther than usual and it produced something reasonably close to a light roll crimp.
They shot just fine. As expected, the headspacing was definitely excessive, and the rounds rattled back & forth a little in the cylinder - a little less than 1/16" or so - but firing them didn't seem to do the brass any harm. I guess the web that close to the base is thick enough to prevent it causing any damage to the brass.
Shooting them didn't seem appreciably different than shooting the 45acp rounds with the same bullet over 4.9gr of Herco. With the weight of the N-frame I guess that isn't too surprising since both loadings are in the middle of their respective ranges.

45 ACP Super

It seems like any comparison of the 45 Colt and 45 ACP when discussing hot loads, etc... the 45 ACP Super should be mentioned.

The "Super" brass case made by Starline is identical in external dimensions to the 45ACP but has thicker walls to support additional pressure that will let you load a 45 ACP pretty hot, as much as 300 ft/sec faster than standard loads.

I am told the S&W 625 can safely support this load as well as several other modern revolvers and semi-automatics.

The pressure limits for this case is listed at 28k psi, so it's pretty close to the limits set for the Ruger Vaquero of 30k psi in the 45 Colt.

gman51 said:

I haven't ever shot a 45 LC and I was wondering how does it compare to shooting a 45 ACP? Which one is the hotter more powerful round? Are they basically in the same fruit basket?
I figured I could get the answer here quicker than checking Google for the answer.

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As with ALL things ballistic, the answer is: It depends.

The original .45 Colt load was a 255 grain hollow-base lead slug over 40 grains of 3F black powder delivering around 900 fps from original 7.5" barrelled U.S. Army 1873 revolvers. This equated to approximately 460 lb-ft of kinetic energy which for 1873 was a VERY potent round...as it is today. Using modern, solid-head cases, about 32-35 grains is the most black powder one can cram into a case which still results in loads spectacularly more potent than most OTC .45 Colt ammo.

Shortly thereafter, the U.S. Army introduced the .45 Schofield revolver and cartridge. The more lightly constructed Schofield cartridge was a 230 grain RN lead slug at 750 fps, for around 287 lb-ft of kinetic energy...not even close to the orginal .45 Colt, but close enough "for government work!"

When the U.S. Army introduced the .45 Auto, it too used a 230 grain bullet in full metal jacket trim, loaded to around 840 fps, which, in the early 1900's was quite a potent round and is still to this day considered so by many.

The reason it's hard to push the .45 slug to higher speeds is because it's a massive slug, with huge bore and rapidly builds stress and strain on whatever gun it is shot from...not to mention recoil.

The "modern" .45 Auto can easily be loaded 10K psi above original spec, but few end-users find the recoil acceptable...this is basically the genesis of the modern .45 Super.

The .460 Rowland is basically nothing more exotic than a .45 Auto loaded to 40K psi which normally produces unacceptable recoil and strain on a semiautomatic handgun, yet by using a properly designed muzzle brake (recoil compensator), such a powerful load is practical.