“Manurhin” Walther P1: Cold War Relic

Absalom

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This P38 variant has shown up occasionally in threads here. I’m really not buying any more guns, in fact, I should start selling for medical reasons, but … my earlier, 1921-to-1945 Berlin police P08 really needed a sidekick, so here are a few photos of my Pistolet P1, recently acquired. ;)


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They are readily available; there are currently seven on offer at GB. Some have fantasy prices up to 1500, but the market has lately clustered between 700 and 900. I grabbed mine when I could get it for 600. Condition doesn’t vary much; the slides are often nicer on those that received the “fat slide” replacements, but the trade-off is that the gun is no longer all-original. No Berlin pistols got the hex bolt, so for strictly a shooter, you’re better off with a post-1975 Bundeswehr (W. German army) P1.

Many folks here likely know the story behind these. By the early 1960s, West German states had largely adopted 7.65mm sidearms, mostly Walther PP/PPK, a trend that was only later reversed by the urban terrorism of the 1970s. However, a special situation existed in West Berlin. Adopting the P1 was part of an informal West German plan to equip the West Berlin police, the only armed German presence in the city, to army standards so it could function as a paramilitary support force with the Western Allies’ brigades in case of attack.

To circumvent Four Powers rules prohibiting German-made guns in the city, West German-manufactured infantry arms were “Frenched” through a cooperation with French companies, which assembled, stamped and proofed the guns and had them shipped on to Berlin by the French military. Voila, guns “made in France”. The HK G3 was handled at MAS/St. Etienne, the Rheinmetall MG3 (the 7.62mm version of the Nazi MG42), Walther MP-L, and P1 (and later some P4) at Manurhin. This never fooled anyone, but since it was legal, under then-valid trade laws, the Soviets had no basis for any formal complaints.

Walther was in close cooperation with Manurhin anyways since they had manufactured the PP/PPK series for Walther since 1952, and continued to supply all the parts even after Walther was allowed to resume assembly at Ulm in 1957.

The P1 entered West Berlin service in 1963/64, replacing a menagerie of different WW II-vintage revolvers and pistols (including thousands of .38 Spl. US Victory models). Around 15,000 pistols total went to the police, customs, and corrections. Starting in 1981 they were replaced with the SigSauer P6.

SigSauer took the P1s in trade and then sold them to a number of surplus importers. Import marks are various degrees of obnoxious; the Interarms billboard on the right slide surface is my least favorite.

Regardless of what you may read, nobody has definitely solved the mystery of the crossed cannons, oddly specific with 3/34, yet. The supposed Portuguese contract is something everybody copies from each other, but evidence there is zilch.

On guns with fat replacement slides, the slides are numbered to the frame serial. But you can easily identify them: They say just “France” instead of “Made in France”, the vertical gripping grooves extend forward beyond the safety, and there is a St. Etienne crown proof on the left in front of the grooves. Very rare are late replacement slides just saying “P1 9mmx19” with no Walther banner or Manurhin logo on a Berlin frame (with police star). Those were sent directly from Ulm without the French detour.


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Good historic background. After I purchased mine, 2288xx, original slide with no cannons (but with an Interarms import stamp), I was lucky enough to score a correct Wunderlich holster for it.

You mentioned Victory revolvers. I have one with a 5” barrel and British proofs that is stamped “Pol Lun 509” on the back strap that I take to be a property stamp for the police department in Lüneburg, Lower Saxony, which was under British control during the Occupation. It was parkerized before I acquired it but otherwise it is in very nice original condition.
 
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In that close-up photo, those Manurhin markings seem very crude, irregular. Any reason for that?

I think it‘s a combination of the effects of a rough finish, degrading over 20 years of daily holster insertion and removal, which sort of micro-grinds the corners down. The M on Made in France is barely visible. I also think the whole slab except for the serial was one roll stamp, and the larger the surface, the easier slight distortions can happen.
 
I have a Walther P1 that I shoot and carry quite often.
No Hex bolt reinforcement and no 'fat slide' upgrade.
But it hasn't disintegrated yet with Rem/UMC 115gr FMJ.
Very accurate and one of the few semi auto pistols I can still pull the slide back..
I bought it for $150 IIRC, when they where a common item on the market.
It's marked as made in '64 I think. There's a Police or someother Dept markings X'd out on the frame.

I have a couple war time Walther P38's but I don't shoot them anymore.

My Father brought back a very nice Walther Banner P38 w/ holster and xtra magazine from WW2.
He had that for many years, then one day took a sledge hammer to it and 2 other handguns he had brought back.
All in battered, smashed and bashed into pieces.
They were never registered (NYS),,but for some reason,, 30yrs after WW2 he decided he had to get rid of them..
 
I enjoy post war P38/P1...
I have a very early 1960 marked P38 and a late P1 marked 1976.. fun range toy..
 
I think it‘s a combination of the effects of a rough finish, degrading over 20 years of daily holster insertion and removal, which sort of micro-grinds the corners down. The M on Made in France is barely visible. I also think the whole slab except for the serial was one roll stamp, and the larger the surface, the easier slight distortions can happen.


Mine has similar finish issues.
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Have always been a fan of the P38/P1 as well as its P4/P5 incarnations.

My earliest post war is 1959 proof marked slide says P38 , have a commercial import stamped 1966 that is pre interarms slide stamped
 
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Good Morning My Friend, I just simply happened across this Post this morning, & while looking over your particular P.1 / P.38's mkgs I noticed that it doesn't appear to carry the Berlin Police 'Bear' Stamp, as does my P.1. The commonly observed 'French 'Sunflower' mkg on the left Trigger Guard. ( That's based on what I interpret the 'top, right slide mkg' to indicate ? ) Your's also may be amongst the highest Serial #'s I've ever observed, although I guess I should confirm that fact by checking by Files before making an assumption ? Your example may have been amongst the quantity produced for some Regional Police Force, & or perhaps Corrections Personnel ? Interesting example !

Best, Dom P. / 'dpast32'
 
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The Model you would have just loved was the Model P.38-K, which was only produced for a brief period of time, & in very limited numbers. IIRC, it came with an 2.5" Barrel, or thereabouts.

dpast32
 
…. I noticed that it doesn't appear to carry the Berlin Police 'Bear' Stamp, as does my P.1. The commonly observed 'French 'Sunflower' mkg on the left Trigger Guard. ( That's based on what I interpret the 'top, right slide mkg' to indicate ? ) Your's also may be amongst the highest Serial #'s I've ever observed, although I guess I should confirm that fact by checking by Files before making an assumption ? Your example may have been amongst the quantity produced for some Regional Police Force, & or perhaps Corrections Personnel ? '

Dom:
I‘ll address your points in order and clarify some things:

The “Berlin bear” stamp was an internal Berlin proof which is only found on pistols that were repaired or had parts replaced at the Berlin police’s armory.

The marking on the left trigger guard is not a “French sunflower”. It has been called all kinds of things, from rosette and daisy to starburst, but it is actually the Berlin police star. On the Sig P6 that followed the P1, it is found on the front of the slide:


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My gun’s serial is actually smack-dab in the middle of the serial range of the Berlin contract; numbers are between approx. 200- and 241-thousand.

So my gun is really a perfectly average specimen. And contrary to what is still widely believed, there is no evidence any other P1’s were finished at Manurhin besides the Berlin contract. One reads a lot of nonsense in the literature, which still gets repeated, about Manurhin supposedly making these for countries that didn’t want German-marked guns, and such. None of that holds up. No verified Manurhin P1 specimen has ever surfaced that was not a Berlin gun.
 

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The Model you would have just loved was the Model P.38-K, which was only produced for a brief period of time, & in very limited numbers. IIRC, it came with an 2.5" Barrel, or thereabouts.

dpast32

Came across one in a LGS about 15 years ago ...but passed it; it was bigger than I thought vs a 3913 which was/is my EDC
 
For some reason looking over several Proxibid auctions the past week or two I have seen dozens of the Walther for sale. Is it just the timing that all the older collectors have decided to sell off and/or their children are selling off dad's old guns?
 
As a steel and walnut man I note that the cross bolt had to be adopted because the aluminum frame did not hold up to service loads. On the other hand the 22 conversion unit will not fit the Wehrmacht frames.
 
I saw a Walther P-1 at a local gun store near me a few weeks ago, after reading this thread I thought it might be a value so I made a move on it. Asking price $500, they had layaway, $200 put it aside for me, and I picked it up today.

Pistol is marked with the Walther banner, "P1 Cal 9MM", "9/76", has "89 BW" after the serial number. Came with a flap holster marked "Pist 38" "Kal 9MM (W)", "3-6/63-41". Also came with four Walther marked magazines, two blued and two parkerized.









It also came with a manual and a piece of paper that may have been when it was proofed and targeted after a re-work in 1989:





Ran some rounds through it at 15 yards on an 8" steel target, some FMJ and some cast lead handloads that work good in my other 9MM pistols. The pistol ran reliably with all four magazines, shot close to point of aim, a little stacking to the left. My cast lead handloads shot to the same point of aim as FMJ, but wouldn't lock the slide back on the last shot. I can live with that. A pic of the steel target, probably 40 rounds or so:



I'm liking this pistol, should be a good field companion.
 
I have one just like it. I love shooting it and it does attract attention at the range. The West Berlin story is interesting. I have heard that that an unscrupulous importer, at one time, stamped swastikas on some of these to try and sell them as war relics, so watch out. Nobody bothered to explain how an alloy-framed, French pistol made in the '60s could possibly be stamped that way.
 
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