Modeled after the storied US Marshal Witness Protection Remington 870, used for years to protect federal judges and apprehend federal fugitives. But really, what do they know?
Whatever happened to the shockwave and other like shotguns
- Thread starter CAJUNLAWYER
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You've only been shooting 3 yrs kinda sums up some of the opinions here. Are you basing your opinions on videos? Personal experiences? Countless people in this thread have stated they are not "hellacious" . Me included. And nobody is comparing it to a revolver.
SAFireman
Member
Yup, I had seen the WITSEC 870's for years on end and lusted after one, but never really wanted the hassle of the paperwork to have one. When Remington offered the Hardwood Tac-14's I put in my order.
I had folks clamoring about the 'shootability', usefullness, ect, but I carried on. And like I said earlier, it is VERY comforting in the front seat of a pickup during civil unrest.
It is easier to shoot well than a lot of the so-called 'tube experts would have you believe, and I use standard police issue 00 Buck.
AJ
US Veteran
The LGS usually has 14 inch barrels for 870's that he sells on Gunbroker. I guess you can buy the barrel and have an 870, but not the two together in one package.
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My FIL bought one in .410. Ammo availability is an issue.
.357magger
Member
People have really short term memories.
And they opine about things they really don't understand.
Wilson Combat years ago offered an exact same concept called the "Witness Protection". It was modeled after modified shotguns used by the US Marshals Service. Coincidentally enough, that agency provided my agency with its first formal SWAT training at Ft Polk, LA. And we trained extensively with this model, shooting both point blank with #4 buck and out to 25 yards with both buck and slugs. To my knowledge they field them to this day.
To suggest that these are "useless" is, with all due respect, a very ignorant comment, and is most often made by people who assume a "pistol grip" is the same as a birdshead grip on the Shockwave. It isn't remotely the same. And that birdshead makes all the difference in both firing and close quarters manipulation. I know because I personally used an SBR variant years before the Shockwave was introduced for innumerable felony stops, building searches, and dynamic entries.
There are many goofy videos out there (wow, go figure, on the internet?) of people who don't know how to use this. There is also an EXCELLENT video of instruction by Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch that shows exactly the same training concept as taught by the US Marshals.
So the US Marshals have used a "useless" weapon for decades?
And they opine about things they really don't understand.
Wilson Combat years ago offered an exact same concept called the "Witness Protection". It was modeled after modified shotguns used by the US Marshals Service. Coincidentally enough, that agency provided my agency with its first formal SWAT training at Ft Polk, LA. And we trained extensively with this model, shooting both point blank with #4 buck and out to 25 yards with both buck and slugs. To my knowledge they field them to this day.
To suggest that these are "useless" is, with all due respect, a very ignorant comment, and is most often made by people who assume a "pistol grip" is the same as a birdshead grip on the Shockwave. It isn't remotely the same. And that birdshead makes all the difference in both firing and close quarters manipulation. I know because I personally used an SBR variant years before the Shockwave was introduced for innumerable felony stops, building searches, and dynamic entries.
There are many goofy videos out there (wow, go figure, on the internet?) of people who don't know how to use this. There is also an EXCELLENT video of instruction by Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch that shows exactly the same training concept as taught by the US Marshals.
So the US Marshals have used a "useless" weapon for decades?
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Echo40
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Cue highly opinionated posts about how Law Enforcement Agencies and the Military are run by uneducated bureaucrats based on cherry-picked anecdotal evidence regarding past choices of standard issue weaponry which the poster feels were inferior to that which was previously issued or otherwise should have been issued.
abigails&w
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Have one
Have one in 12 Ga with wood furniture ("nightstick" variant) and love it! Smooth action, fast to deploy and so much fun to shot. I shot mine so far exclusively with 00 Buck, whatever can find of weaker kind. Holding it up to the eye with push-pull technique far from face, like having an imaginary stock. In pic near my 18.5" 12Ga 590A1.
[edit] found how to embed the pic
Have one in 12 Ga with wood furniture ("nightstick" variant) and love it! Smooth action, fast to deploy and so much fun to shot. I shot mine so far exclusively with 00 Buck, whatever can find of weaker kind. Holding it up to the eye with push-pull technique far from face, like having an imaginary stock. In pic near my 18.5" 12Ga 590A1.
[edit] found how to embed the pic
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I just qualified for work using one. It was the first time firing it. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I qualified the first go round, using 00 buck and slugs. I think it appropriate for the confines of a vehicle.
I never saw a ruling that said you could use a pistol brace on a Shockwave. The original instructions with the firearm state: Page 22 THIS FIREARM, AS DELIVERED FROM THE FACTORY, IS EQUIPPED
WITH A SHOCKWAVE TECHNOLOGIES RAPTOR GRIP ONLY. RE-
PLACING THE SHOCKWAVE TECHNOLOGIES RAPTOR GRIP WITH
A BUTTSTOCK OR OTHER PISTOL GRIP MAY CHANGE THIS
FIREARM'S ATF CLASSIFICATION, AND MAY RESULT IN A VIOLA-
TION OF NFA REGULATIONS UNLESS THE PROPER ATF FORMS
ARE COMPLETED, AND THE TAX IS PAID. ALSO, CHECK WITH
YOUR LOCAL LICENSED RETAILER OR STATE POLICE FOR ADDI-
TIONAL RESTRICTIONS THAT MAY BE IMPOSED BY STATE OR
LOCAL LAW OR REGULATION ON FIREARMS OF THIS TYPE. So putting a brace on it was always illegal. Be Safe,
Really? Not that the classification as a firearm means it can't have a stock, since it turns into a SBS… or a traditional pistol grip puts it under 26" OAL, making an AOW. Illegal to remove the grip to clean the firearm? I put a sling adapter that fits between the grip and receiver… which increased OAL… but I must have done something illegal. [emoji849]
Just because a manufacturer uses the word "may" doesn't mean it cannot be done. It means it "may" cause issue, if you go against the NFA or GCA. If they sold that firearm without any heads up, someone would have said "you know, a traditional pistol grip would work a lot better." Without that notification, people would have created an AOW without any knowledge.
But let's get it straight from the ATF… starts in middle of the first page, at "Also in 2014…" to the end of that page. Picture included in the following page.
So, you are incorrect.
From 10/28/2014 to 01/31/2023, it was perfectly legal to install a brace on a 12 gauge firearm. And until some time in 2019, when a folding brace in the deployed position was deemed to not work towards OAL… which was previously approved with the Black Aces DT… you could have a folding brace. I find it convenient that letter and the situation it caused was not included in the short history they discussed in the new brace ruling, since it would only be another time that they deemed a brace as not a stock.
I always find it funny how gun owners can make things more strict just because they read into things way more than necessary. I remember people in NJ arguing the extended M1903 magazines created an assault weapon since it made the capacity 20 rounds… even though only semi-autos over 15 rounds (at the time, now 10 rounds) were restricted.
Shockwave. Appropriately named. The first time you shoot one you'll get hit in the face with a knuckle creating a shockwave to your face.
How to Shoot the Shockwave w/ Demonstrated Concepts - YouTube
The concept of short barreled shotguns for self defense, with all the must have accessories that hang on those, is marketing driven.
The firearms industry is dying a slow death with new state laws choking the sale of rifles and magazines.
How to Shoot the Shockwave w/ Demonstrated Concepts - YouTube
The concept of short barreled shotguns for self defense, with all the must have accessories that hang on those, is marketing driven.
The firearms industry is dying a slow death with new state laws choking the sale of rifles and magazines.
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No I am not talking about individual rulings that come and go with ATF, I was merely stating what the factory instructions stated. Be Safe,Really? Not that the classification as a firearm means it can't have a stock, since it turns into a SBS… or a traditional pistol grip puts it under 26" OAL, making an AOW. Illegal to remove the grip to clean the firearm? I put a sling adapter that fits between the grip and receiver… which increased OAL… but I must have done something illegal. [emoji849]
Just because a manufacturer uses the word "may" doesn't mean it cannot be done. It means it "may" cause issue, if you go against the NFA or GCA. If they sold that firearm without any heads up, someone would have said "you know, a traditional pistol grip would work a lot better." Without that notification, people would have created an AOW without any knowledge.
But let's get it straight from the ATF… starts in middle of the first page, at "Also in 2014…" to the end of that page. Picture included in the following page.
So, you are incorrect.
From 10/28/2014 to 01/31/2023, it was perfectly legal to install a brace on a 12 gauge firearm. And until some time in 2019, when a folding brace in the deployed position was deemed to not work towards OAL… which was previously approved with the Black Aces DT… you could have a folding brace. I find it convenient that letter and the situation it caused was not included in the short history they discussed in the new brace ruling, since it would only be another time that they deemed a brace as not a stock.
I always find it funny how gun owners can make things more strict just because they read into things way more than necessary. I remember people in NJ arguing the extended M1903 magazines created an assault weapon since it made the capacity 20 rounds… even though only semi-autos over 15 rounds (at the time, now 10 rounds) were restricted.
abigails&w
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Based on my limited experience I'd venture to guess that all indoor ranges that allow shotguns will let you shoot a Shockwave under same rules, with 00 Buck or slugs, mini or regular shells. I practice with mine in one such indoor range. Nobody seems to care how I hold it to fire, just that most natural for me is to hold it as a regular shotgun.
To me a Shockwave is a bit like a snub nose J frame, one needs-practice-to-be-good-at. We all know what an expert can do with a J frame. It's not the arrow...
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