CS9 vs Hellcat! Do we really need this newfangled plastic?

OK, I will admit that I am not exactly unbiased here. I like my old school DA/SA pistols. But I bought a Hellcat last fall when they were running the Gear Up promotion, and got 5 mags, a range bag and green dot thrown into the deal. I thought it was time I entered the 21st century.

The Hellcat is not a bad pistol. Very small package with high mag capacity. Ergonomics are good, it feels good in my hand and the trigger is not bad for a striker fired. None of that would have been enough to make me buy a plastic pistol. The draw was the optic. The idea of a very compact green dot / red dot on a micro compact pistol is very appealing in theory.

The problem is that the green dot does not work reliably. Every time I am close to getting it dialed in, it stops working on me. Then when I am getting used to shooting wthout it, it pops up again. Driving me crazy.

I was shooting it last weekend when the optic went out and did not come back. So I started shooting with iron sights. The sights on this thing are pretty good. And I saw that I could shoot it just as well with iron sights. After I while, I thought, if I am going to shoot iron sights, I might as well shoot a gun a really like, so I pulled out my CS9. And shot it better than I did the Hellcat.

So if the optic is not going to work reliably, I don't want it on a carry gun. And if I don't have the optic on it, why carry it instead of my CS9?

Yes, it has higher mag capacity. But that is about it. The Hellcat is only marginally smaller than the CS9. The trigger is worse than the CS9. And dagnabbit, I just think guns should be made out of metal!

Below is a size comparison, for anyone who is thinking of going there.








What do you guys think? Are the old ways sometimes better than the latest technology?

Well, I'm kinda wondering if we're long lost family because I have the same set up - and yes, guns should come in steel, but ....



Nothing really special about my Hellcat, however I did swap out the factory trigger and a few other plastic parts for steel. I'm still kind of stuck on irons though.



The Hellcat replaced a Kahr PM9/PM40 set up with interchangeable slide assembly. The Kahr is very small around the grip and I like what is as a practical matter a DAO striker fired system. Hellcat is very similar but with higher mag capacity



My heart pretty much belongs to the CS9, but for me it's significantly larger than the Hellcat, especially the height and has a much lower grip. That slide sits up way high above your hand.

Mag capacity is pretty significant in the Hellcat if you carry an 11 round flush fit and 15 round back up.

Great to have choices though!

Unfortunately, machined metal is expensive and molded plastic is cheap, so plastic guns are here to stay.

It is great to have many gunmakers still in business and thriving. I imagine many would not be absent the Great Polymer Revolution of the early 1980s.

And as noted above, it is great to have choices. Our favorite revolver brand now offers duty-sized pistols in plastic, aluminum alloy and steel.

I've carried a SIG 365 for a few years now. It's lighter, a little more compact, and has a 2-rd advantage over the 3914 I carried previously.
It's also easily replaced, and has cheap and easy to find parts and accessories. I don't love it, but it serves it's purpose well.

I shoot it well, but I shoot most pistols well.

I don't think I would be underserved to go back to the Smith, but I don't see the point, unless nostalgia is coming into play.

My CS9 didn't impress me accuracy wise, plus I don't beleive S&W makes any parts for it now (but I could be wrong). The Sig P365 was my choice in the small 9mm department.

I still like my CS9. The only real negative is parts are not readily available anymore.

Since I only pocket carry in normally gym shorts (I'm retired and retired my dress clothes) I vote for the lighter pistol. If not a PM9 it'll be a Colt Mustang pocketlite.

dsf said:

Well, I'm kinda wondering if we're long lost family because I have the same set up - and yes, guns should come in steel, but ....

View attachment 722998

Nothing really special about my Hellcat, however I did swap out the factory trigger and a few other plastic parts for steel. I'm still kind of stuck on irons though.

View attachment 722999

The Hellcat replaced a Kahr PM9/PM40 set up with interchangeable slide assembly. The Kahr is very small around the grip and I like what is as a practical matter a DAO striker fired system. Hellcat is very similar but with higher mag capacity

View attachment 723000

My heart pretty much belongs to the CS9, but for me it's significantly larger than the Hellcat, especially the height and has a much lower grip. That slide sits up way high above your hand.

Mag capacity is pretty significant in the Hellcat if you carry an 11 round flush fit and 15 round back up.

Great to have choices though!

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Yeah, we're packing twins!

For me, the capacity consideration is much less important because I live in Kaliforniastan and we have 10 round mag limit. So carrying 7+1 vs is 10+1 is much less significant than 7+1 vs 12+1, 14+1, 15+1 etc that you guys can do in the states that recognize the United States Consitution.

As far as size, the Hellcat with the optic is not significantly smaller than the CS9 without an optic in my opinion, and as you can see from the photos. Hellcat is lighter, I will concede that. Hellcat without an optic would be a more fair, more apples-to-apples comparison, but for me the optic was the only reason to get the Hellcat in the first place..

I have never had a CS9, but I did carry a 3914 then a 6906/shorty 9 for 20 years or so on and off duty. When I moved to TX, I decided that I didn't want it to end up lost in an evidence locker or marked up with some evidence number. The gun is not pristine at all, it looks like a working gun. I had put adj sights on it with a front night sight (now a F/O). Took the hump off of the rear of the grip and other things over the years. Still shoot it at local matches and always take it to the range for guys to shoot.

So, I first bought Shield +, did some work on it, it was fine. Shot well enough, functioned fine. Here I am going to be honest about something. As I have gotten older, I have become a bit of a chicken. I appendix carry, always have, in a belt holster with a slight rear cant. For over 23 years I handled and shot handguns at least 4-5 days a week. It was my job instructing, testing, fixing, inspecting etc. Shot matches most weekends or practice. I was very lucky.

Now however, I shoot rifles weekly but handguns maybe once every 3 weeks. Sometimes more but not much. I still shoot fine but, I am not nearly as confident in my presentation and handling. Plus, in the last 7-8 years my hands have become somewhat arthritic, 70 now. So, I like having a safety on my pistol. I am a lefty, so the type of safety on the Shield is no good. I must add that I have seen a lot of weird things with striker fired pistols, and dont trust them as much as my 3rd gens.

Then the Hellcat with the 1911 type safety came out. Small unobtrusive, very positive on and off. I had shot a Hellcat before; my brother has a couple. I like the way it fits my hand, number of rounds, sights and shoots well. I would not try the same shots I would of with the P/C S&W, but I wouldn't do that today anyway. So I am happy with it.

Here is a photo of my old S/W it sits in the safe now with some others that I have never fired. A Hellcat, well everyone has seen those. Nice gun but hardly photo worthy, HA!

Up until about 7 years ago you could not have given me a free plastic pistol! Then one day I saw my friend's new Sig P365 - I inspected it then fired 100 rounds out of it - I was instantly sold! I waited until Sig worked all the initial kinks out of the first generation Micro 9mm pistol and then bought one. With well over 8,000 rounds through mine and zero issues, it has now been my sole CCW/EDC for 6+ years now.

Many here have read my posts regarding red, green or any color dot sights on carry guns and know why I would never use one. At most SD shooting distances it would more than likely never be used to aim anyway! Who needs the issues with them, bulk, extra dimensions etc. etc. etc. and I truly look at an optical sight on a CCW gun as a negative, not an asset.

The Hellcat is also a very competent 9mm pistol and I have shot a few of them that are owned by friends. It is fairly similar to the size and weight of the Sig P365, just slightly larger but still accurate, reliable and actually holds 1 extra round with the standard flush magazine. Personally I prefer the Sig, but if the Hellcat was all that was available, I would feel confident about carrying it. Oh - I do like the manual safety feature of the Sig P365 and do not think the Hellcat offers that. I also like the Sig's trigger far better than the Hellcat but again, not a deal breaker.

chief38 said:

Up until about 7 years ago you could not have given me a free plastic pistol! Then one day I saw my friend's new Sig P365 - I inspected it then fired 100 rounds out of it - I was instantly sold! I waited until Sig worked all the initial kinks out of the first generation Micro 9mm pistol and then bought one. With well over 8,000 rounds through mine and zero issues, it has now been my sole CCW/EDC for 6+ years now.

Many here have read my posts regarding red, green or any color dot sights on carry guns and know why I would never use one. At most SD shooting distances it would more than likely never be used to aim anyway! Who needs the issues with them, bulk, extra dimensions etc. etc. etc. and I truly look at an optical sight on a CCW gun as a negative, not an asset.

The Hellcat is also a very competent 9mm pistol and I have shot a few of them that are owned by friends. It is fairly similar to the size and weight of the Sig P365, just slightly larger but still accurate, reliable and actually holds 1 extra round with the standard flush magazine. Personally I prefer the Sig, but if the Hellcat was all that was available, I would feel confident about carrying it. Oh - I do like the manual safety feature of the Sig P365 and do not think the Hellcat offers that. I also like the Sig's trigger far better than the Hellcat but again, not a deal breaker.

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The Hellcat has a safety version. Funny how nearly all Manufacturers except Glock recognize the market for that. As many Glocks that they sell, they’d sell more if that was an option. I know quite a few people who won’t carry one because of no safety. I own 5 Glocks but won’t carry them because there’s no safety. They’re range guns only.


And I also think red dots on carry guns are a negative. Same for flashlights or lasers on rails or attached to trigger guards. Crimson Trace laser grips are fine, but not those tumor looking things that attach to the trigger guard.

I’ve had unreliable red dots too, so I don’t trust them.

I really liked the sights on the Hellcat. I’ve shot one with and without optic. But I too bought the Sig 365. ZERO complaints

I not concerned about the possibility of dot optic not working as I have tall sights I can see threw the lens of my optics. I've shot using dot optics going back to '90 for hunting with on a revolver and practiced with a dot optic on a pistol fun and practice to stay sharp with it just in case a dot optic is needed for around 15 years and never had one fail . Perhaps some bought lower quality dot optics as some brands are not worth using on defensive handguns .. Any how I still carry open sights on my carry handguns and use a variation of flash sight picture for defense depending more on distance to a target .

kbm6893 said:

The Hellcat has a safety version. Funny how nearly all Manufacturers except Glock recognize the market for that. As many Glocks that they sell, they’d sell more if that was an option. I know quite a few people who won’t carry one because of no safety. I own 5 Glocks but won’t carry them because there’s no safety. They’re range guns only.


And I also think red dots on carry guns are a negative. Same for flashlights or lasers on rails or attached to trigger guards. Crimson Trace laser grips are fine, but not those tumor looking things that attach to the trigger guard.

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Hmmm, Didn't realize that the Hellcat was available with an optional manual safety. I did read somewhere that the relatively new FN Reflex is also available with and without a manual safety. I have never actually seen a Reflex in the wild nor shot one. It reviewed well, but they are apparently hard to find. One reviewer actually said the trigger was too smooth and too light for a CCW gun. Interesting!

hardluk1 said:

I not concerned about the possibility of dot optic not working as I have tall sights I can see threw the lens of my optics.
[Snip]
Any how I still carry open sights on my carry handguns and use a variation of flash sight picture for defense depending more on distance to a target.

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I find it very disconcerting that the dot is there sometimes and not sometimes. That just doesn't work for me on a carry gun.

The problem very well might be that the optic is just too cheap and I need to invest in a better one if I want to use it for carry. But a quality optic is about as expensive as anotehr pistol, so I think it's iron sights for me for a while longer.

The whole concept of a optic on a sub compact concealed pistol makes not sense to be??
I carry a LCP max in my front pocket every day. I do not need and optic at 10 yards or less.

FoundFather said:

I find it very disconcerting that the dot is there sometimes and not sometimes. That just doesn't work for me on a carry gun.

The problem very well might be that the optic is just too cheap and I need to invest in a better one if I want to use it for carry. But a quality optic is about as expensive as another pistol, so I think it's iron sights for me for a while longer.

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Well if you buy a cheap dot optic you may only end up with something reliable for a 22lr pistol fun gun!

chief38 said:

Hmmm, Didn't realize that the Hellcat was available with an optional manual safety. I did read somewhere that the relatively new FN Reflex is also available with and without a manual safety. I have never actually seen a Reflex in the wild nor shot one. It reviewed well, but they are apparently hard to find. One reviewer actually said the trigger was too smooth and too light for a CCW gun. Interesting!

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I learned to shoot with a new '61 colt huntsman when I was 6 years old kid . Gun safety was stressed and using the thumb safety was also stressed to by DAD . I still enjoy that pistol and I'm sure the trigger pull was heavier back then but its pull weight and feel has been 2lb's with so little take up , reset and over travel it hard to even measure . It makes some tuned 1911 race guns feel like there nothing special .

Guess its more about what your use to for a trigger pull .

The Reflex advertises a 4.5lb to 5.5lb trigger pull and that's about the same as a number of better stock striker fired pistols out there .