Mass AG drops the bomb

[SweetMK]

Originally Posted by McE

Massachusetts should really just consider passing a law that makes shooting other people not in self-defense illegal or something.

When I moved to MA in 1979,,, there were BIG signs posted along the interstate at the entrance to MA that stated

"Possession of a handgun will result in a mandatory one year jail sentence"

or something like that,,,,

Those signs were enough to convince me to move out of MA as soon as possible,,, (1982)

I wonder if those signs (or laws) still exist?

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by SweetMK

I wonder if those signs (or laws) still exist?

The signs are long gone and the 1976 law (Bartley-Fox) has been essentially ignored by prosecutors for most of the last 40 years. Massachusetts loves to pass meaningless laws. 99.9% of the people ever initially charged under Bartley-Fox never went to jail for a year like the law specified. The charges were always either negotiated or plead down to some lesser offense or dropped altogether. It was all a big bluff.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

This ban is a solution in search of a problem. In the last 5 years that have been 750 gun murders in MA, only 2 of them were rifles and neither of those was one of these weapons, meanwhile there were 35 people beaten to death with hands and feet! Not to mention kitchen utensils, a pressure cooker.
Right now I am very leery about taking any semi-auto to the range since there may be an over zealous officer who sees me.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS

One thing that is unsure at this time, if you have an ILLEGAL RIFLE, even though the AG may not prosecute that doesn't stop individual DA's or Police from arresting you.

I'm hoping for a test case on this to materialize very quickly. From what I have read so far, this bizarre "reimagining" or "redefining" of the MA AWB law will not stand up in court. Of course, for now, everyone is on edge about their new "Felon in Waiting" status.

Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS

It may be tinfoil hat but he felt we could see the next step being a 30-day amnesty to turn in the illegal guns followed by full scale confiscation and extreme prison sentences.

This will not fly. The woman has already over-stepped her authority by a country mile. I believe it is all a big bluff. To go any farther she would have to involve other (sane) persons and law enforcement agencies to participate in a big, ugly way. It ain't gonna happen.

Originally Posted by GaryS

Take due notice thereof, and govern yourself accordingly.

And store your newly illegal guns out of state before they come looking for you.

[gasaman]

Originally Posted by TTSH

Big rally at the statehouse Saturday morning... so it's entirely possible that it will come up.

I'll be there making noise (as usual). Look for the little, round, gray bearded old man with the blue walker.

I'm there too....

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

This should not fly, but Gov Rino Baker has come out supporting her although he wants "some clarification"

We will see if they limit this to ARs and AKs or as it is written all semi's. It would be bad enough if it was just going forward, the retroactive change of a law is dangerous

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by elpac3

(vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;

OK - how many Semi Auto rifles have you seen that cannot accept a magazine capable of holding more than 5 rounds?

Does mean that all semi autos that can accept a detachable magazine are in fact illegal, and the AG is correctly interpreting the law?

Or is that just one of multiple features that must be present for it to be illegal.

If the first situation, it seems that the problem is the law, not the AG. The AG is obligated to enforce the law as written. I would have thought we would had heard more before now if the law really does ban all semi autos.

If it is the second, then that is a huge problem. The AG shouldn't be able to create new law out of thin air.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

She was upset that the manufacturers were "getting around the law" by following the letter of the law and making sure that they only had one evil feature.
She has said that we cannot look at the cosmentics but how it operates and here are her words

"... a weapon is a Copy or Duplicate, for example, if the operating system and firing mechanism of the weapon are based on or otherwise substantially similar to one of the Enumerated Weapons."

It doesn't matter what the gun looks like, whether it has a monte carlo stock it is how it operates internally. There are two tests, either or both can be true, the second one is "it has parts that can be interchanged with one of the enumerated weapons i.e. Assault Weapons. But it only takes one to be true, so that is why we and GOAL and the NRA are saying this actually traps ALL semi-autos

[nocents]

To the unfortunate residents of Mass. ...is your Governor utterly without any stones??...what about your elected legislators which she has just given the one finger salute??......elections have consequences

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Our "R" Gov is a rino and a sheep, he said he supports her but wants some "clarification" he would also like a "list" of the banned guns. Right now the AG's list is a double secret list, there are features she doesn't like but they won't put what guns are not allowed in writing so we or the dealers have no idea what is legal and what is not. The Legislators for the most part are ticked off about this usurpation of their power but I cannot get my Senator to get back to me.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by johngalt

If it is the second, then that is a huge problem. The AG shouldn't be able to create new law out of thin air.

It is the latter... and yes, she shouldn't be able to redefine an existing law to mean what she wants it to mean so as to fit her anti-2A agenda. But that's exactly what she has done.

And in Massachusetts, she just might be able to get away with it.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by nocents

To the unfortunate residents of Mass. ...is your Governor utterly without any stones??...what about your elected legislators which she has just given the one finger salute??......elections have consequences

Our very low profile "go-along-to-get-along" governor doesn't want to get involved. He punted and will continue to punt. He is not a gun guy and just wishes this had never come up.

The legislature is another matter. As I mentioned before, it all depends on whether or not she did this crazy thing with the approval of her party leaders or did this entirely on her own. If the former, there is some chance that she will be rebuffed. If the latter, we are totally out of luck.

[weatherby]

Originally Posted by gasaman

I'm there too....

Same here .....We will be noticed

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I hate to sound defeatist, but...

I don't see the Gov or the Legislature standing up to the AG and saying your wrong and drop it. I see it as of Wednesday banning all AR's and AK's going forward (and potentially all semi-automatic rifles shotguns and handguns), the AR and AK platforms I think are a done deal.
What I think the best we can pray for is a backdoor (can't spell pieric) "victory" that we can take "felony" off the table for people who bought the guns legally under the laws as there were interpreted and enforced at the time of purchase.

I fear we will be told in a few months, you have 30-60 days to get rid of them or face jail. What I am hearing is they may use our being labeled felons to declare you an unsuitable person. I think that would be extreme but in this state who knows.

[les.b]

Again.... These are all reasons to ensure that we go forward with a conservative SCOTUS..... There will be appeals to this and other unconstitutional restrictions on our RIGHTS and if we have a good SCOTUS, some of these extremist rulings and legislation may be overturned, building on the Heller and McDonald rulings..... Frankly, I think that that is the only hope for those marooned in utopian workers paradises like Massachusetts, California and the like. These states are so out of touch with the more than 80% of the states that are making strides to improve shooters lives, that this is probably the only recourse...

Join the NRA NRA Life Membership for $500 - Ends July 31st

Best Regards, Les

[ladder13]

Let's not forget we live in lawless times, those in power believe they can just decree new rules and regulations.
If she gets away with this I see it spreading to at least a few of the usual states, and possibly beyond sooner or later.
We need to nip this in the bud and be forever vigilant, we have brothers in arms in all 50 states, and unfortunately tyrants waiting in the wings.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Les
I cannot go any higher in the NRA being a Benefactor Member now.

[les.b]

Ben, I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm a Benefactor also, and a couple of years ago I bought my oldest boy a life membership, and this year I think I'm going to buy the other son a life membership. Then I can start on the grandkids. At the very least, they get an excellent magazine for the rest of their lives!!!

It's ironic that one of my greatest experiences happened there in Massachusetts at the Smith and Wesson factory back in 1977. It was my great privilege to attend the factory Armorers School, and also a Firearms Instructors school. I got to spend time on the floor there, seeing the big forges at work and the machining, blueing and fitting, and everything else. I would not trade those wonderful memories for anything. And now to see what is happening in your great state is heartbreaking for a lover of liberty and of fine firearms...

Good for you, though, I can tell from your posts that you are vigilant and activist, and keeping an eye on those who are threatening our God given Liberties.

Best Regards, Les

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Let's not forget we live in lawless times, those in power believe they can just decree new rules and regulations.
If she gets away with this I see it spreading to at least a few of the usual states, and possibly beyond sooner or later.
We need to nip this in the bud and be forever vigilant, we have brothers in arms in all 50 states, and unfortunately tyrants waiting in the wings.

Correct. If this stands, it has dangerous implications well beyond Massachusetts' borders.

And in a related story... I see that one major, well-known supplier of AR PARTS has decided that this decree means no more shipping of anything, parts or otherwise, to moonbat Massachusetts.

The AG's threats and decrees travel fast.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

See Massachusetts, See the US if someone is elected. We need to vigilant about our gun rights at all times. Here in MASS they have been doing it at the town level, but now we get hit with this...

I have been trying to load some 45-70 but been totally tied up with this stuff for 2 days now.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Originally Posted by TTSH

Correct. If this stands, it has dangerous implications well beyond Massachusetts' borders.

And in a related story... I see that one major, well-known supplier of AR PARTS has decided that this decree means no more shipping of anything, parts or otherwise, to moonbat Massachusetts.

The AG's threats and decrees travel fast.

Many gun stores such as FS are refusing to sell Semi rifles of anytype until they get a ruling

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Originally Posted by Flipmeister

Isn't it nice to live in the 'Land of the Free and Brave'.....

Yes that state that freedom started in

[nocents]

don't know if what I read is true but one quote from a Mass. gun store owner said that on average that 20% of sales for most shop owners are attributed to AR rifles and the like.....now if this plays out to include semi auto handguns and shotguns and accessories for the same.....how can they stay in business?......answer is that "Big Bobs Gun and Tackle" down the street won't.......if this fails the next logical step will be to tax boxed ammo, powder,primers, cases,and bullets to the point where the average citizen will not be able to afford them

[ChattanoogaPhil]

AR manufacturers in Massachusetts got to be at least a little concerned that they'll be the next focus.

[lrrifleman]

I think what may save some people is that the Mass AG is making the law she based her actions on is now an ex post facto law, which is explicitly a violation of federal law. I must admit, I am grasping through the fog of my concussion for facts I use to teach as a US History teacher.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Originally Posted by Flipmeister

That would depend entirely on usage frequency. I load for hunting do a box of pills, primers and propellant lasts me quite a while.

The whole scenario is still an affront on your rights as an American Citizen.

I have enough ammo and commonents to last a life time for an average person, doesn't matter, if new people can't come into the hobby it will die and you won't be able to shoot anywhere unless you own alot of property

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by nocents

don't know if what I read is true but one quote from a Mass. gun store owner said that on average that 20% of sales for most shop owners are attributed to AR rifles and the like.....now if this plays out to include semi auto handguns and shotguns and accessories for the same.....how can they stay in business?......answer is that "Big Bobs Gun and Tackle" down the street won't.

If this holds up, many of our shops won't survive. Some say that was her principle target with this surprise decree all along since she did not say she is going after us "Felons in Waiting" who have the suddenly illegal guns in our possession... at least not yet.

Remember that she has far more clout and enforcement influence over dealers than she does Mr. or Mrs. Joe Public. Kill off the in-state dealers... and scare the Hell out of the foreign dealers... and what can Joe Public living in MA do? Not much.

Some MA dealers are a lot more affected by the loss of semi-auto rifle sales than others. Off the top of my head, I'd say roughly a third of dealers are highly dependent on semi-auto rifle sales. They will likely not survive if this holds unless they can get into components, parts and repairs in a very big way. That would probably be pretty tough.

The dealers who are mainly into handguns and traditional hunting rifles, or who are otherwise heavily diversified, will be hurt but will likely stay afloat. The biggest of the big will survive. It's the small guys who will get crushed.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by lrrifleman

I think what may save some people is that the Mass AG is making the law she based her actions on is now an ex post facto law, which is explicitly a violation of federal law.

She would answer you as follows: {Start of guidance} This is not a brand new law. Rather, it is correcting (in her mind) the intent, incorrect interpretation, incorrect implementation and incorrect enforcement of a very old law. We buyers and owners of the guns should have known all along that the guns were illegal even though everybody in the state and in the country understood that they were legal, including the courts. But now we have seen the light and we must fix that big, big mistake. For the time being, we will let you peons keep your illegal guns but you certainly can't buy any more. In time, I will decide what you peons will have to do with your illegal guns if you don't want to go to prison. {End of guidance}

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

AR manufacturers in Massachusetts got to be at least a little concerned that they'll be the next focus.

Haven't heard a word out of them yet. I'm sure their lawyers are looking at the AG's decree as we speak.

[les.b]

Originally Posted by Flipmeister

One of the main reasons I built and maintain my own private range. You can shoot pistols and long guns and it's private so no one shoots without my express permission.... But then I reside in a firearm friendly state (at least for now). I own alot of property, I farm.

Don't take that much square footage. the corridor is long (300 yards+ to the backstop, but the width is only 12 feet. That allows 2 shooting lanes on one custom built bench, side by side with a roof overhead. I used 2-4x12 sheets of 3/8" high strength alloy steel tacked together with 3 feet of excavated clay in front of that retained by railroad ties. Nothing gets past the steel. I shot the backstop at 50 yards with my 50 cal Barrett and the pill didn't even put a dent in the steel.

I shot at a public range for years, with all the distractions of rude people, Now, I have no distractions and no rude people.

Back on subject... I would assume Bloomberg and 'Everytown' is in the background in Mass, they have been in Lansing (the state capitol of my state), trying to make inroads in Michigan gun laws... without much success I might add. Michigan people hunt and Michigan people are firearm friendly and that includes the governor, glad of that.

Flipmeister:

I hear you. I don't have a lot of land, but I have 50 acres, and I have my own place to shoot. Don't worry about noise, because not that much carries anyway, and all of my neighbors have their own ranges too, and as far as I can tell, probably shoot more than I do. My kids have a place to shoot, and the grand kids will too, as they grow. Friends are welcome to shoot, but I request that they coordinate with me, as I do value my privacy.

Mr. Bloomberg spent heavily here in WV as well, (per capita), and wasted his money. He was particularly adamant that we not have "constitutional carry", but it passed, and the Governor vetoed it, although he is usually pro gun... And the legislature overrode the veto and it is now law. Plus a lot of other pro gun laws have been enacted in the last few years, even with all of the anti gun types putting up more money than the pro gun types have to spend!!

Congratulations there in Michigan, hope that you guys can keep the bad guys at bay. It requires constant vigilance, but money is not always the answer. If it were we would all be sunk, because we don't have a sugar daddy like Mr. Bloomberg to fund our cause.

Best Regards, Les

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Flipmeister

Back on subject... I would assume Bloomberg and 'Everytown' is in the background in Mass, they have been in Lansing (the state capitol of my state), trying to make inroads in Michigan gun laws... without much success I might add. Michigan people hunt and Michigan people are firearm friendly and that includes the governor, glad of that.

I'd say your assumption is right on the money.

[les.b]

Well, I agree. The victories that we have won have been the result of a lot of hard work by a lot of very dedicated people assisted by organizations like the NRA. I am with you 100%. We can never let down our Gaurd for even a moment. These people are relentless. They spew their falsehoods and skewed statistics and are enabled by an acquiescent media free of charge. You ar right on target if certain persons are elected. Check my posts above. I think the biggest prize for us or them is without a doubt the Supreme Court. We must ensure that even one liberal is not appointed to fill the current vacancy. That would be 5-4 against freedom, and even if no one else were to retire or pass away in the next 4 or 8 years, untold mischief would be done.

And it is analogous to sickness. They attack from every avenue. One of my biggest worries is that they are teaching innocent young children absolute rubbish in many, but not all, schools. Those children then grow up not knowing the truth, and we lose yet another battle. We need to ensure that our schools are teaching accurate history and what we used to call "civics". How many parents know what is in the books that their children read in school?

Best Regards, Les

[GaryS]

EVERYONE is looking at this. The NRA, NSSF, SAF, and the two main state groups are all looking at legal avenues.

GOAL quickly got the rally going for tomorrow, but that's just the start.

In reply to one of your other comments, it would be most prudent to have a contingency plan to quickly transfer your ARs or AKs out of MA for safe keeping.

I'll be there tomorrow with my official retired guy Hawaiian shirt with air craft carriers on me. Get there early because it will be crowded. Bring water because it's going to be hot.

Originally Posted by TTSH

Haven't heard a word out of them yet. I'm sure their lawyers are looking at the AG's decree as we speak.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by GaryS

EVERYONE is looking at this. The NRA, NSSF, SAF, and the two main state groups are all looking at legal avenues.

GOAL quickly got the rally going for tomorrow, but that's just the start.

In reply to one of your other comments, it would be most prudent to have a contingency plan to quickly transfer your ARs or AKs out of MA for safe keeping.

I'll be there tomorrow with my official retired guy Hawaiian shirt with air craft carriers on me. Get there early because it will be crowded. Bring water because it's going to be hot.

Leaving momentarily. Gonna be a hot one and a huge crowd. I hope it has the desired impact on the legislature.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Looks like she blinked on our being felons. However, still no clarification on whether this covers all semi-auto's and also is it legal to transfer the newly minted pre ban rifles

From the MASS.gov FAQ’s

Q: What if I already own a gun that is a copy or duplicate?
•If a weapon is a copy or duplicate of one of the models enumerated in the law, it is an Assault weapon. The Enforcement notice will not be applied to possession, ownership or transfer by an individual gun owner of weapons obtained on or before July 20, 2016.
•The AGO also will not enforce the law against a gun dealer that possesses or transfers a “copy or duplicate” weapon that was obtained on or before July 20, 2016, provided that transfers, if any, are made to persons or businesses in states where ownership of the weapon is legal.

[GaryS]

It was hot and the turn out was very large. I estimate 3-4,000, but that's just a guess.

They started early because some of the politicians who wanted to speak had to get inside for the legislative session. And it was hot. I found a shady spot under the Bullfinch memorial across the street, but most people were out in the sun.

The people up for re election in the fall are very aware of the anger at this.

Originally Posted by TTSH

Leaving momentarily. Gonna be a hot one and a huge crowd. I hope it has the desired impact on the legislature.

[gasaman]

Awesome turn out today!
Gary I was standing in the roadway in front of you, using that tree's shade.

[GaryS]

We should have a S&W Forum meet up. I want to catch TTSH before his "good years" per BAM BAM run out.

Channel 5 says about 600 people, but their video was either from before or after the actual event. In the aerial shot, you could see open space in that area in front of the State House gate. There didn't seem to be any open space, at least to me, during the time Jim Wallace and the others were speaking.

Originally Posted by gasaman

Awesome turn out today!
Gary I was standing in the roadway in front of you, using that tree's shade.

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I would be up for a weekend meet up.

A friend of mine, a gun dealer in Dartmouth asked me about reports that Healey while giving a pass to individuals (that is might white of her) is saying she is going to prosecute any dealers who sold AR's Wednesday. I told him that Carl at FS had been told by the AG's office that they could be sold to Mass people until 11:59 pm. I have seen that or her treat to prosecute anywhere. But I wouldn't put it past her to try to get political points by doing that, putting a bunch of small businesses out of business.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by GaryS

We should have a S&W Forum meet up. I want to catch TTSH before his "good years" per BAM BAM run out.

Channel 5 says about 600 people, but their video was either from before or after the actual event. In the aerial shot, you could see open space in that area in front of the State House gate. There didn't seem to be any open space, at least to me, during the time Jim Wallace and the others were speaking.

Less than 4 "good years" to go according to the infamous Bam Formula... ... so you better work quickly to set this up! The way I feel today, both mentally and physically, I could kick the bucket any day now.

I got there late due to dead stopped traffic on Rte 128N before Rte 2. I decided to go in via the Red Line from Alewife so I could hit our favorite shops afterwards. Horrible decision on my part. I arrived on scene after the speeches were over.

The crowd was certainly well over 600, but I think it was shy of the all time record for a GOAL Rally set a couple years back. Frankly, I was a little disappointed by that. I was sure this rally would set a new all-time record given the monumentally outrageous moves by our crazy AG lady this past week.

I'll post some pix and additional comments after dinner. Right now the good wife is bugging me 'cause she's wicked hungry!

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS

A friend of mine... is saying she is going to prosecute any dealers who sold AR's Wednesday.

I heard the same story today at the Rally from some fairly reputable sources. I don't believe it. Actual criminal prosecutions in a court of law on these sorts of matters are not her style at all, principally because the law is not really on her side. Her style is bullying and intimidation of gun dealers through threats of the various enforcement actions (criminal and civil) she can take. But call her bluff on criminal actions and she backs right off. Typically, things like this end with a consent agreement and sometimes a modest civil fine. Sometimes they mysteriously just go away on their own.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS

Looks like she blinked on our being felons. However, still no clarification on whether this covers all semi-auto's and also is it legal to transfer the newly minted pre ban rifles.

From the MASS.gov FAQ’s

I think you know that the state website's FAQ's are pretty much meaningless dribble bearing little or no resemblance to actual state law. Then again, I can say the same thing about her decree.

[weatherby]

The Boston PD estimated the crowd at over 5,000.
I won't argue that

YouTube

[TTSH]

A few pix of the rally taken with my new phone... which I haven't fully learned how to use yet.

Note that these pix were taken by me between 11 AM and noon... sometime after the speakers and pols had done their thing and departed.

[Out West]

Who hates us more, our elected officials or foreign terrorists? Is it possible that they are in cahoots? Politicians disarm us and then the terrorists apply the coup de gras.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Out West

Who hates us more, our elected officials or foreign terrorists? Is it possible that they are in cahoots? Politicians disarm us and then the terrorists apply the coup de gras.

I believe the motivation here was purely ideological and emotional. Don't look for logic in this or for foreign terrorist sympathies or connections. This is pure illogical, home grown moonbatism.

[TTSH]

Semi-decent (almost fair) article in the 100% anti-gun/anti-gunowner Boston Globe:

Gun rights activists rally against attorney general’s curb on copycat assault rifles - The Boston Globe

This article is still slanted for sure but it is 1,000 times better and more accurate than the reports we're seeing on some of the local TV channels. Very disappointed in how little they understand or care about the issues involved in this new unilateral gun ban.

[TTSH]

One last comment on this topic for today and then I'll leave it alone: There is a growing feeling that this is just the first step of many planned by the MA AG. The feeling is that if this first unilateral step is successful that semi-auto handguns will be next (she already bans Glocks and many others so why not all of them?)... and then who knows what after that. The feeling is that she can no longer be trusted to respect any existing gun laws. If she can pull new laws out of pure thin air all by herself, we are in deep, deep trouble.

The result is that all gun sales have been going through the roof this week (since Wednesday) and especially this weekend. I visited a bunch of shops after the rally and the ones that were open were are all flat out busy. It was actually kind of a beautiful response to a massive overreach by one very anti-2A elected official.

I do agree with GaryS and others who feel that this will be a long process to resolve. A quick legislative slapdown and return to existing law is not in the cards. It has come out who else was secretly behind this move and it tells us that it will not end quickly or easily. More than that I can't say without violating the rules and getting banned.

As for me, despite losing my Sport II back-up AR, I am in pretty good shape. Long ago, I bought two stripped lowers in the hope that a day like this would never come but to be safe anyway. Well, now I am very happy that I bought that insurance policy against tyranny... because full-blown tyranny has finally come to Massachusetts.

[weatherby]

A quick legislative slapdown and return to existing law is not in the cards.

I'd call this a definite slap down for her.
we'll have to see what comes from it.

FINALGunDirectiveLetterToAG.pdf - Google Drive

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by weatherby

A quick legislative slapdown and return to existing law is not in the cards.

I'd call this a definite slap down for her.
we'll have to see what comes from it.

FINALGunDirectiveLetterToAG.pdf - Google Drive

You know why it doesn't matter. Remember where we live and how things work around here. Again, beyond that I can't say lest I violate forum rules and get punished.