NRA Responds To New York Trial Verdict

[bwade]

Here is the email post put out this morning. This is for information purposes only and not to stimulate argument or hate speech.

NRA Responds To New York Trial Verdict | An Official Journal Of The NRA

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Pretty much what I originally thought. Hope the NRA takes this opportunity to clean house and grow.

[Magnum_PI]

I hope they can clean up and rise back to what they used to be.

ANY organization can suffer the incompetence or corruption of bad leadership. I don't want the NRA to be one of them going forward. They're an American staple in the gun rights world. Here's to hoping!

[BC38]

Gee, imagine that.

The NRA saw that it might have some internal issues - and started taking actions to correct them - long BEFORE the anti-gun prosecutors ever brought charges, and BEFORE the MSM started trying to use these "issues" to undermine public opinion of the organization.

Who'd a thunk it?!? That the whole thing was a witch-hunt against a pro-2nd Amendment organization?

I'm SHOCKED I tell you, absolutely SHOCKED! [/sarcasm]

[sophie]

The NRA needs to move on and work on improving the organization by having some reliable, honest people to fight for our rights. Hopefully we’re through with the shysters.

[Aukula1062]

La Perrier is gone but the filth that let that happen is still there.

[6string]

I remain positive and hopeful for the NRA and their future going forward. They are a large and powerful organization fighting one of the toughest battles in America. Difficulties have occurred in the past and will likely occur again.
If you're old enough, you may remember some of the challenges they've overcome years ago. Neal Knox, for example, was a controversial figure who transformed the organization. And, that's not to mention the whole NRA vs GOA rivalry that occasionally comes up. (Both are good organizations!)

We need them now as much, if not more, than ever!

[bwade]

Originally Posted by BC38

Gee, imagine that.

The NRA saw that it might have some internal issues - and started taking actions to correct them - long BEFORE the anti-gun prosecutors ever brought charges, and BEFORE the MSM started trying to use these "issues" to undermine public opinion of the organization.

Who'd a thunk it?!? That the whole thing was a witch-hunt against a pro-2nd Amendment organization?

Below is an opinion link with more validation that the NRA was pursued by the NY AG as a campaign promise, the NRA came out ahead in the lawsuit, and BIG positive things are coming to the NRA. The Main Stream Media is trying its best to make the NRA irrelevant and corrupt. This was a trial in NY by a liberal Manhattan Jury, an activist AG and now so many members have been on here condemning the leadership of the NRA after reading and now following the liberal press. Research deeper about what happened other than people trying to run a Board Position campaign on here. Leadership at the NRA started in 2017 planning for this AG attack, and doing all it could to correct wrongs and strategically plan to make the NRA solid through the attack, but it was an attack by the NY AG!

The liberals and the anti-gunners are trying their best to fracture us! There have always been politicians spreading half-truths trying to get the low information voters to follow them. Get information from other sources than this main stream media and people trying to take advantage of negative media blasts.

Here is another article that supports the facts other than those being pushed by the liberal propaganda media:

The NRA Strikes Back | The New York Sun

To fully view the article, the site will ask for your email address.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by Aukula1062

La Perrier is gone but the filth that let that happen is still there.

I think he is still a paid "consultant"

EDIT- he is not. That is cleared up in post #19 here.

[bwade]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

I think he is still a paid "consultant"

I have seen that rumor on here and don't have any validation of it except in the gossip of folks upset with WLP and/or the NRA. If it is true, could there be a business reason for it? The NRA is a billion dollar corporation and having a clean separation with no strings at that level are something that would have to be enormous. I think the truth to that rumor will either be confirmed or put in the hogwash category.

[yeti]

Has anyone actually seen ANY evidence that WLP will be kept on payroll as a paid consultant?
Pretty sure that would not be advised, legally or public relations wise. No.

I have supported the NRA and will continue to support the NRA as the largest pro 2A organization. As many of us have, I continued to vote for change that never came.
At the same time I am a member of and have increased my support for GOA, SAF & ISRA (state group).

I want the NRA to succeed! My continued support for the NRA is not unconditional however. They need to get back to a mission first philosophy and lean out wasteful spending.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by bwade

Leadership at the NRA started in 2017 planning for this AG attack, and doing all it could to correct wrongs

They never should have been in a position to need to "correct wrongs."

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I hope that this is the right place to throw in my $.02.

Wayne and some of his cronies hi-jacked the NRA and drained a certain amount of money from it. The membership was the injured party, but the state of NY did not act to remedy the wrong to the membership, but instead attacked the NRA through Wayne LaPierre.

Embezzlement or misappropriation aside, Wayne LaPierre did a good job of representing gun owners. That is exactly why he was a target of the state of NY.

The state of NY is completely wrong, and furthermore dishonest, in its attack on the NRA, which it pretends is a defense of the membership. Every careful and honest observer can see this.

The NRA has problems which allowed this to happen. They should be fixed.

Wayne LaPierre is not the devil. He has done good things and bad things, and should not be running the NRA.

Looking forward to improvement.

[Well Armed]

Why did it take a NYC antigun far left Democrat to do what NRA members and executives should have done years ago? If not for that, it would still be business as usual.

A thieves and a dishonest men with no morals are going to show you who they are and are going to be who they are. I blame them as much as I blame our side for complacency and knowingly, allowing it to happen right in front of our faces. Those who allowed it to continue are just as guilty, IMHO.

We should be embarrassed that the enemy had to clean house for us. Everyone who was there and did nothing shot be expelled and everyone who voted to keep the crooks in power should lose their right to vote going forward if I had my way.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by bwade

Below is an opinion link with more validation that the NRA was pursued by the NY AG as a campaign promise, the NRA came out ahead in the lawsuit, and BIG positive things are coming to the NRA. The Main Stream Media is trying its best to make the NRA irrelevant and corrupt. This was a trial in NY by a liberal Manhattan Jury, an activist AG and now so many members have been on here condemning the leadership of the NRA after reading and now following the liberal press. Research deeper about what happened other than people trying to run a Board Position campaign on here. Leadership at the NRA started in 2017 planning for this AG attack, and doing all it could to correct wrongs and strategically plan to make the NRA solid through the attack, but it was an attack by the NY AG!

The liberals and the anti-gunners are trying their best to fracture us! There have always been politicians spreading half-truths trying to get the low information voters to follow them. Get information from other sources than this main stream media and people trying to take advantage of negative media blasts.

Here is another article that supports the facts other than those being pushed by the liberal propaganda media:

The NRA Strikes Back | The New York Sun

To fully view the article, the site will ask for your email address.

IMAGINE THAT!

The NY AG, who campaigned on a promise to "take down the NRA", pulled out all the stops, and EVEN overstepped the law to try to make good on her promise.

And a LOT of people on both sides of the issue bought into it, because the MSM propaganda machine saturated the "news" with only HER side of the story.

Looks like she accomplished at least part of her agenda, since she has managed to turn some of the supporters of the 2nd-Amendment against the NRA - as we have so clearly seen during this persecution - er, I mean prosecution - of the NY lawsuit over the last couple of years...

Like the USA, the NRA isn't perfect, and I would never try to claim either of them are - BUT they are still the best there is, IMO.

Too many people on "our side" seem to have been convinced that we need to throw out the baby with the bathwater...

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by ImprovedModel56Fan

Wayne LaPierre is not the devil.

YMMV. I hate thieves even more than I hate liars and Wayne is both. There was a movement over 20 years ago to replace him but he and his cronies squashed it.

[Well Armed]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

YMMW. I hate thieves even more than I hate liars, and Wayne is both. There was a movement over 20 years ago to replace him but he and his cronies squashed it.

Not only that, but many gun owners and NRA members still made excuses for him, like some are currently doing in this thread. He was a cancer that many allowed to flourish, and now they're attempting to place some if the blame on gun owners and accusing them of being victims of "propaganda" when it wasn't propaganda at all but rather factual truth. What was stated about those running the NRA and issues within the NRA was true. The gun owners who choose not to fund corruption and to vote with their wallets by funding other gun rights organizations instead are the real heroes. Those who turned a blind eye and were more upset with the messenger (MSNBC) and the victims (NRA members and gun owners) are the real problem. If everyone gave to a different organization until the cancer and con artists were gone, we wouldn't be discussing this right now. The NRA would have been better and stronger in the long run.

As long as some of us believe the ends justify the means and will directly or indirectly support wrong, there will always be conflict with other gun owners who refuse to put up with it.

[Well Armed]

I also disagree that most gun owners believed the liberal media's reporting. From my personal experience and from what I saw when it was first reported, there was a lot of skepticism because of who was bringing the charges and because the information was coming from biased sources (mainstream media). It wasn't until facts and details were released that everyone started to be outraged. We aren't that simple minded, and we know better than to blindly believe what the news media puts out relating to anything political or having to do with social causes.

[JeffKnox]

Okay, this one's going to take a minute...

I think you all know that I am a candidate running for a seat on the NRA Board, and that I am highly critical of the current "leadership." You also might know that I'm a regular columnist for Firearms News and Ammoland.com.

I wish Blaine Wade had offered a similar disclosure at the opening of his post, as Mr. Wade is a current member of the NRA Board of Directors. He's been on the Board since about 2016.

The statement from the NRA is an outrageous distortion of the facts.
Let's start with the opening line:

"A jury verdict in a high-profile New York trial confirms what the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) contended all along – that it was victimized by certain former vendors and “insiders” who abused the trust placed in them by the Association."

A full year before Letitia James filed her suit against the NRA, I opined in an Ammoland column that the NRA Board had two choices:

1. They could remove the miscreants and fix the problems, admitting any wrongdoing, and facing whatever uncomfortable music might come along with that admission, or

2. They could circle the wagons around Wayne LaPierre and keep circling right down the toilet.

The Board, including Mr. Wade, chose option 2.

Apparently, in NRA-speak, "all along" means since last month when Wayne resigned "for health reasons," because that's when they first admitted that "insiders" (besides Josh Powell, Wayne's hand-picked deputy who was briefly assumed to be his successor, who was tossed under the bus early on) had anything to do with their problems, and it's very significant that they did not mention LaPierre by name in this statement, even though he was the key "insider" at the heart of all of the problems.

Had the Board chosen option 1. above, sending LaPierre on his way with honor and a nice bonus (in spite of some grumbling from some NRA members for that part), then rooting out other improprieties and cleaning house, they could have avoided the NY AG's suit entirely. Instead they spent well over $100 million on lawyers and legal maneuvering, including over $13 million on a sham bankruptcy (which conveniently opened their books for the world to see), losing well over a million members, and watching annual revenues decline from almost $400 million, down to around $200 million, reelecting LaPierre 5 times, and consistently declaring that the AG's investigation and eventual suit were nothing but "politically-motivated BS," "witch hunts," "wholly without substance..." I guess that's what they meant by "all along."

Something else I've said repeatedly since this all started, is that there's no question that Letitia James hates the NRA and wants to destroy it, and that her investigation into the NRA and eventual suit were absolutely politically-motivated to a large degree. AND the investigation and suit were unfortunately not baseless, as the evidence kept growing that showed that LaPierre, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, Josh Powell, several members of the Board of Directors, a number of other current and former employees, and a number of vendors that were close to LaPierre, were padding their own pockets to the tune of millions to tens of millions of dollars a year at NRA member expense.

Reading Mr. Wade's comments here really raised my blood pressure, and I could go on for pages and pages explaining the facts and pointing out the fallacies and distortions in his comments and the links he shared, including the effort to cloud the issue by conflating two very different lawsuits, but I won't do that to you.

If you are interested, you can go to my website or Ammoland.com and do a search on "NRA." It will return years worth of articles by me and others, discussing the case and looking at the evidence. You'll see that long before this case got to trial, and after LaPierre's stories had gone through multiple revisions and variations, LaPierre had admitted to virtually all of the charges that had been made against him. Still members of the Board like Mr. Wade kept insisting that it was all BS and that people like me who were reporting on the mess were either misguided, being sucked in by "liberal media lies," or were actively trying to sabotage the NRA.

I take significant personal offense to all of those suggestions.

By the way, this was just the first of two trials scheduled in this case. The second trial is scheduled to begin in mid-July. In it, the judge will hear arguments and decide what remedies he will apply to get the NRA back on track and serving the members. My personal hope is that he will remove most, if not all of the current Board for their complicity in this fiasco, and appoint a Members Committee -- ideally chosen from candidates suggested by the various State Associations -- to oversee a total reorganization of the Association, including a reduction of the Board of Directors down from the current 76 members, to something more reasonable like 9 to 15 qualified, working members.

I'll also add that LaPierre did not receive any golden parachute, and he and the NRA stated in open court that he would not be employed or paid anything by the NRA in the future. It's troubling that Mr. Wade didn't know this.

Finally, on the subject of, "We fixed everything back in 2018 and everything's super above-board and beyond reproach now..."
It just came out that Tyler Schropp, the head of Development at NRA (one of LaPierre's closest pals and one of NRA's highest paid employees) has promoted Wayne's niece -- in Omaha -- to a $300k per year department head position in his division of NRA. (Nothing to see here... Everything's fine... Move along...)

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by JeffKnox

I'll also add that LaPierre did not receive any golden parachute

Really? No contact buy out? No sweet "retirement deal"? Saying something in court isn't a binding deal. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that I could proclaim in court that I will never eat another cheeseburger and could stop at McD's without penalty UNLESS the judge follows that with a court order barring me from eating cheeseburgers.

From "The Guardian"

The filing also indicates LaPierre will be paid at least $1m a year after his retirement. The condition is referenced in a post-employment contract that was neither reviewed nor approved by the group’s board or any other committee, or disclosed to membership, the complaint says.

[Bekeart]

There seems to be general agreement that the number of directors is excessive.

Our juries try murders and thieve with 'Twelve good men and true'.

How many directors really acted in a fiduciary duty?.
How many directors were really active in any planning?
How many directors just Rubber Stamped anything placed before them?
How many directors ever voted against any LaPierre plans/wants/desires ?

Bekeart
Cynic for the day

[ladder13]

I am stunned by this.

[Yaworski]

Like the government, major corporations, and teenagers, NRA will never publicly admit that they screwed up. Every press release will be filled with MBA weasel words.

I never dropped my support of the NRA because I know that the NRA is more than Wayne and a political lobbying machine. Competition, hunting, instruction are the heart of NRA.

[Well Armed]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Like the government, major corporations, and teenagers, NRA will never publicly admit that they screwed up. Every press release will be filled with MBA weasel words.

I never dropped my support of the NRA because I know that the NRA is more than Wayne and a political lobbying machine. Competition, hunting, instruction are the heart of NRA.

I dropped my support and will not support them until the vultures are gone, which looks like it will probably be never. IMHO, once the older generation of gun owners are out of the picture, the NRA will become even weaker because it's that demographic who is still supporting them.

I recommend and a large demographic of other gun owners are taking the same money and support they would have given to the NRA and are giving it to other gun rights organizations.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by Well Armed

I recommend and a large demographic of other gun owners are taking the same money and support they would have given to the NRA and are giving it to other gun rights organizations.

The problem with your thought process is that NRA is far more than a gun rights organization.

[jmace57]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

I think he is still a paid "consultant"

Maybe they can pay him in clothing.

[Well Armed]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

The problem with your thought process is that NRA is far more than a gun rights organization.

Well, another organization can fulfill the hole in the vacuum. Either way, the NRA has been moving further and further away from what it once was and is still supposed to be whether they're still supported or not. The reason being is they are less about training, safety, and indoctrinating current and next generation into firearm culture. They are more about constantly soliciting for money ad nauseam, sometimes compromising for gun control, and mismanaging funds. They've also lost a tremendous amount of respect, influence, and power that they will never regain because of bad management. I haven't seen any indication of things making an 180 turn. They've also have become far too political with a lot of far right rhetoric when, IMHO, to try to appeal to the tens of millions of Democrats and Centralist.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by Well Armed

sometimes compromising for gun control, . . .too political with a lot of far right rhetoric when, IMHO, to try to appeal to the tens of millions of Democrats and Centralist.

How can you compromise on gun control and be far right?

They are more about constantly soliciting for money ad nauseam,

How long have you been involved with NRA? I joined 45 years ago and they've always been constantly soliciting for money. Nearly every non-profit does. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, SCCA, alumni associations, churches, temples, Little League, the Olympic team, and so on.

[cmj8591]

Most of the people who belong to the NRA don't know (or care) who Wayne LaPierre is. That's why this drama went on longer than it needed to and it is why it will take a very long time for any real organizational change.

[Well Armed]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

How can you compromise on gun control and be far right?.

Go back and read what I wrote and you quoted. I stated they use too much "far right [political] rhetoric" that will be off-putting to Democrats and Liberals who are gun owners. They should be politically neutral and stick to promoting gun rights, training, and safety only. There are a lot of African American, Hispanic, and Democrat gun owners at my job, at the range, social media, and in general who will not support or will even be hostile towards the NRA because of their rhetoric. The should be attempting to appeal to these demographics who aren't one issue voters or deeply invested into gun culture through common ground instead of pushing them away.

Originally Posted by Yaworski

How long have you been involved with NRA? I joined 45 years ago and they've always been constantly soliciting for money. Nearly every non-profit does. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, SCCA, alumni associations, churches, temples, Little League, the Olympic team, and so on.

I have not been bombarded with spam phone calls, junk mail, and email from any other non-profits I've been associated with to a similar extent as I have been with the NRA. Maybe your experience has been different, but my experience isn't unique as I've heard others complain over the years on gun forums.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by JeffKnox

Okay, this one's going to take a minute...

I think you all know that I am a candidate running for a seat on the NRA Board, and that I am highly critical of the current "leadership." You also might know that I'm a regular columnist for Firearms News and Ammoland.com.

I wish Blaine Wade had offered a similar disclosure at the opening of his post, as Mr. Wade is a current member of the NRA Board of Directors. He's been on the Board since about 2016.

The statement from the NRA is an outrageous distortion of the facts.
Let's start with the opening line:

"A jury verdict in a high-profile New York trial confirms what the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) contended all along – that it was victimized by certain former vendors and “insiders” who abused the trust placed in them by the Association."

A full year before Letitia James filed her suit against the NRA, I opined in an Ammoland column that the NRA Board had two choices:

1. They could remove the miscreants and fix the problems, admitting any wrongdoing, and facing whatever uncomfortable music might come along with that admission, or

2. They could circle the wagons around Wayne LaPierre and keep circling right down the toilet.

The Board, including Mr. Wade, chose option 2.

Apparently, in NRA-speak, "all along" means since last month when Wayne resigned "for health reasons," because that's when they first admitted that "insiders" (besides Josh Powell, Wayne's hand-picked deputy who was briefly assumed to be his successor, who was tossed under the bus early on) had anything to do with their problems, and it's very significant that they did not mention LaPierre by name in this statement, even though he was the key "insider" at the heart of all of the problems.

Had the Board chosen option 1. above, sending LaPierre on his way with honor and a nice bonus (in spite of some grumbling from some NRA members for that part), then rooting out other improprieties and cleaning house, they could have avoided the NY AG's suit entirely. Instead they spent well over $100 million on lawyers and legal maneuvering, including over $13 million on a sham bankruptcy (which conveniently opened their books for the world to see), losing well over a million members, and watching annual revenues decline from almost $400 million, down to around $200 million, reelecting LaPierre 5 times, and consistently declaring that the AG's investigation and eventual suit were nothing but "politically-motivated BS," "witch hunts," "wholly without substance..." I guess that's what they meant by "all along."

Something else I've said repeatedly since this all started, is that there's no question that Letitia James hates the NRA and wants to destroy it, and that her investigation into the NRA and eventual suit were absolutely politically-motivated to a large degree. AND the investigation and suit were unfortunately not baseless, as the evidence kept growing that showed that LaPierre, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, Josh Powell, several members of the Board of Directors, a number of other current and former employees, and a number of vendors that were close to LaPierre, were padding their own pockets to the tune of millions to tens of millions of dollars a year at NRA member expense.

Reading Mr. Wade's comments here really raised my blood pressure, and I could go on for pages and pages explaining the facts and pointing out the fallacies and distortions in his comments and the links he shared, including the effort to cloud the issue by conflating two very different lawsuits, but I won't do that to you.

If you are interested, you can go to my website or Ammoland.com and do a search on "NRA." It will return years worth of articles by me and others, discussing the case and looking at the evidence. You'll see that long before this case got to trial, and after LaPierre's stories had gone through multiple revisions and variations, LaPierre had admitted to virtually all of the charges that had been made against him. Still members of the Board like Mr. Wade kept insisting that it was all BS and that people like me who were reporting on the mess were either misguided, being sucked in by "liberal media lies," or were actively trying to sabotage the NRA.

I take significant personal offense to all of those suggestions.

By the way, this was just the first of two trials scheduled in this case. The second trial is scheduled to begin in mid-July. In it, the judge will hear arguments and decide what remedies he will apply to get the NRA back on track and serving the members. My personal hope is that he will remove most, if not all of the current Board for their complicity in this fiasco, and appoint a Members Committee -- ideally chosen from candidates suggested by the various State Associations -- to oversee a total reorganization of the Association, including a reduction of the Board of Directors down from the current 76 members, to something more reasonable like 9 to 15 qualified, working members.

I'll also add that LaPierre did not receive any golden parachute, and he and the NRA stated in open court that he would not be employed or paid anything by the NRA in the future. It's troubling that Mr. Wade didn't know this.

Finally, on the subject of, "We fixed everything back in 2018 and everything's super above-board and beyond reproach now..."
It just came out that Tyler Schropp, the head of Development at NRA (one of LaPierre's closest pals and one of NRA's highest paid employees) has promoted Wayne's niece -- in Omaha -- to a $300k per year department head position in his division of NRA. (Nothing to see here... Everything's fine... Move along...)

Jeff, hoping you and the others win seats on the board. Let’s assume for a moment that the number of board members hold at 76.
How many, a wild guess, of the other 72 do you think are of the same mindset that the 4 of you are?

[bwade]

Originally Posted by JeffKnox

Okay, this one's going to take a minute...

I think you all know that I am a candidate running for a seat on the NRA Board, and that I am highly critical of the current "leadership." You also might know that I'm a regular columnist for Firearms News and Ammoland.com.

I wish Blaine Wade had offered a similar disclosure at the opening of his post, as Mr. Wade is a current member of the NRA Board of Directors. He's been on the Board since about 2016.

The statement from the NRA is an outrageous distortion of the facts.
Let's start with the opening line:

"A jury verdict in a high-profile New York trial confirms what the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) contended all along – that it was victimized by certain former vendors and “insiders” who abused the trust placed in them by the Association."

A full year before Letitia James filed her suit against the NRA, I opined in an Ammoland column that the NRA Board had two choices:

1. They could remove the miscreants and fix the problems, admitting any wrongdoing, and facing whatever uncomfortable music might come along with that admission, or

2. They could circle the wagons around Wayne LaPierre and keep circling right down the toilet.

The Board, including Mr. Wade, chose option 2.

Apparently, in NRA-speak, "all along" means since last month when Wayne resigned "for health reasons," because that's when they first admitted that "insiders" (besides Josh Powell, Wayne's hand-picked deputy who was briefly assumed to be his successor, who was tossed under the bus early on) had anything to do with their problems, and it's very significant that they did not mention LaPierre by name in this statement, even though he was the key "insider" at the heart of all of the problems.

Had the Board chosen option 1. above, sending LaPierre on his way with honor and a nice bonus (in spite of some grumbling from some NRA members for that part), then rooting out other improprieties and cleaning house, they could have avoided the NY AG's suit entirely. Instead they spent well over $100 million on lawyers and legal maneuvering, including over $13 million on a sham bankruptcy (which conveniently opened their books for the world to see), losing well over a million members, and watching annual revenues decline from almost $400 million, down to around $200 million, reelecting LaPierre 5 times, and consistently declaring that the AG's investigation and eventual suit were nothing but "politically-motivated BS," "witch hunts," "wholly without substance..." I guess that's what they meant by "all along."

Something else I've said repeatedly since this all started, is that there's no question that Letitia James hates the NRA and wants to destroy it, and that her investigation into the NRA and eventual suit were absolutely politically-motivated to a large degree. AND the investigation and suit were unfortunately not baseless, as the evidence kept growing that showed that LaPierre, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, Josh Powell, several members of the Board of Directors, a number of other current and former employees, and a number of vendors that were close to LaPierre, were padding their own pockets to the tune of millions to tens of millions of dollars a year at NRA member expense.

Reading Mr. Wade's comments here really raised my blood pressure, and I could go on for pages and pages explaining the facts and pointing out the fallacies and distortions in his comments and the links he shared, including the effort to cloud the issue by conflating two very different lawsuits, but I won't do that to you.

Very interesting Mr. Knox. I choose to use this forum for what it is and not run a campaign on here as you have now started. I disagree with your version of the current facts and you are cherry picking your information. I came on the Board as Woody Phillips (May 2016) was beginning to leave the Treasurer's position. I did not run a campaign on here then and would not have now.

You also have ran multiple campaigns for years to get on the Board and you never informed anyone publicly on here about your campaign until this time. I wish you had been more candid about your own desires to get on the Board, because your timing to approach this forum I would suspect is opportunistic based on the current NRA situation.

I post positive articles about the NRA on here because I believe in its mission, I always have and always will. Over 40 years I have had a membership. I will support the NRA through thick and thin whether you finally get on the Board or not. I believe the NRA is what supports my right to have what I enjoy and use the forum for, that is collecting Smith and Wesson revolvers. I do not want anyone to vote for me because of promises to the folks on this forum, but I do want to post my collection and view theirs!

Also Mr. Knox, as far as arguing with you on here... I will read Proverbs 26 again.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by Well Armed

They should be politically neutral and stick to promoting gun rights

Gun rights is not "politically neutral."

I have not been bombarded with spam phone calls, junk mail, and email from any other non-profits

Don't conflate requests from NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF with requests from NRA. Three separately funded organizations. I slowed the flood of requests to a trickle with one phone call thirty years ago.

[Chuck24]

As the non text speak person, what’s YMMW?

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by bwade

Very interesting Mr. Knox. I choose to use this forum for what it is and not run a campaign on here as you have now started. I disagree with your version of the current facts and you are cherry picking your information. I came on the Board as Woody Phillips (May 2016) was beginning to leave the Treasurer's position. I did not run a campaign on here then and would not have now.

You also have ran multiple campaigns for years to get on the Board and you never informed anyone publicly on here about your campaign until this time. I wish you had been more candid about your own desires to get on the Board, because your timing to approach this forum I would suspect is opportunistic based on the current NRA situation.

I post positive articles about the NRA on here because I believe in its mission, I always have and always will. Over 40 years I have had a membership. I will support the NRA through thick and thin whether you finally get on the Board or not. I believe the NRA is what supports my right to have what I enjoy and use the forum for, that is collecting Smith and Wesson revolvers. I do not want anyone to vote for me because of promises to the folks on this forum, but I do want to post my collection and view theirs!

Also Mr. Knox, as far as arguing with you on here... I will read Proverbs 26 again.

Your "board" is about 65 people too many and I'd love to know what you've TAKEN from the organization over all those years, and what you've GIVEN to it. I'm pretty sure it would survive without you.
It may flourish with 65 Jeff's though. And not real sure he'd win a position on the board by "campaigning" on the Smith and Wesson forum- if he was--
big stretch there, Mr Wade.
As for your quoting of scripture....

Good try. Please quote me some more. Can you also tell me about the Pharisees while you're at it? What an arrogant and condescending thing to say to him- Yes, go read it again. CLOSER this time.
Thanks.

@JEFF KNOX- thanks for trying, but you've got people within that will be looking to make sure you don't succeed, I'm sure. Corruption is hard to erase. When the amounts of money ( As someone said- "they are a BILLION dollar" entity-) are where they are, many want to fill their pockets, as we've seen.

PS- I don't hear Jeff "campaigning" on here- I see him being truthful and honest-

But we can't have THAT now, can we, Mr. Wade?
After you read Proverbs 26 again, take a look at this video too.

YouTube

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by Chuck24

As the non text speak person, what’s YMMW?

"Your mileage may vary"

[CH4]

I thought NRA and Wayne bashing was forbidden.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by CH4

I thought NRA and Wayne bashing was forbidden.

Did Jeff present any untruths?
Not hearing the bashing really either. A lot of things went way south and people are voicing on it.

[Chuck24]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

"Your mileage may vary"

So it’s the wrong letter? Ymmv is your mileage may vary, this is a W

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by Chuck24

So it’s the wrong letter? Ymmv is your mileage may vary, this is a W

You're right! I didn't notice that. Google has nothing either-
Maybe he made a typo...

[jdlii]

My thought is that maybe things went South following the "removal" of Chris Cox and Ollie North. There were "rumors" regarding WLP's alleged, at that time, misappropriation of NRA funds.

All that being said, I know of no other organization that has the membership, funding and political influence of the NRA. I've been a member since I was a teenager and I'm 50+ years past that and a benefactor.

Let's help make it work, again, for the membership. Just my $0.02 worth.

[cmj8591]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

You're right! I didn't notice that. Google has nothing either-
Maybe he made a typo...

Maybe he has a lisp. "Your mileage may wary."

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by cmj8591

Maybe he has a lisp. "Your mileage may wary."

Like Barry Kripke on Big Bang!

[fordson]

……or…”your mileage may Wayne”…..?
Or maybe even “your money made Wayne”…..
Snarky, I know…….I’ll sit in the corner and be quiet….

[JeffKnox]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Really? No contact buy out? No sweet "retirement deal"? Saying something in court isn't a binding deal. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that I could proclaim in court that I will never eat another cheeseburger and could stop at McD's without penalty UNLESS the judge follows that with a court order barring me from eating cheeseburgers.

From "The Guardian"

In their verdicts, the jury in NY v. NRA, LaPierre, et al concluded that an employment contract LaPierre had with NRA that provided full salary for years after his departure was not a "related party transaction." That doesn't mean the contract was paid, just that its adoption followed the legal proprieties and he can't be sanctioned for it.

BUT, that contract was subsequently nullified by the NRA Board and replaced with a new contract that did not include the ridiculous gold parachute. The new contract did include the cryptic clause LaPierre used to claim the authority to unilaterally file for bankruptcy for the Association without Board authorization, which he did in 2021.

The NY v. NRA trial is not over. The jury phase concluded, but the second trial is not scheduled until mid-July. In that, the judge will hear arguments regarding what the NRA has done to "right the ship" and "course correct," and he will decide what will happen next. He could dissolve the Board, fire people, and appoint an overseer to reorganize the Association, if he thinks those things are necessary to get the Association back on the straight and narrow. He will almost certainly require the NRA to provide him with regular financial and operational reports to ensure they're toeing the line.

If there's some secret deal between NRA and LaPierre, or any evidence that LaPierre or anyone at NRA lied or misrepresented anything during the trials, it will not go well for those involved.

I've often been accused of "NRA bashing" and being motivated by personal animosity toward LaPierre. That's never been my motive, though it's true that I don't like Wayne and hold a grudge for the way he treated my father and my organization. But my primary motivation is, and always has been, to make the NRA better by reporting the facts, without hype or distortion, to the best of my ability. I'm certainly not going to make false statements to cover for Wayne though.

Back in 2019 or so, LaPierre was forced to pay back some $300k in "excess benefits" that he took from NRA, and that same year, he was given a bonus of $500k. Similarly, when his assistant Millie was caught using NRA funds to pay for her son's wedding and other personal expenses, LaPierre gave her a big bonus to help her repay the NRA. He and his buddies are self-serving scumbags. Misreporting about their bad behavior doesn't help the case against them, but rather gives them something to point to as inaccurate, and create doubt about other contentions.

Jeff

[JeffKnox]

Originally Posted by Well Armed

Go back and read what I wrote and you quoted. I stated they use too much "far right [political] rhetoric" that will be off-putting to Democrats and Liberals who are gun owners. They should be politically neutral and stick to promoting gun rights, training, and safety only. There are a lot of African American, Hispanic, and Democrat gun owners at my job, at the range, social media, and in general who will not support or will even be hostile towards the NRA because of their rhetoric. The should be attempting to appeal to these demographics who aren't one issue voters or deeply invested into gun culture through common ground instead of pushing them away.

I have not been bombarded with spam phone calls, junk mail, and email from any other non-profits I've been associated with to a similar extent as I have been with the NRA. Maybe your experience has been different, but my experience isn't unique as I've heard others complain over the years on gun forums.

We can't get away from the partisan political arguments. The Democratic Party has decided to make "gun control" a core tenet of their party platform and philosophy.
The NRA should do their best to focus on the actual bad ideas and those pushing them, and avoid broad-brush criticism, but the Democratic Party has really made that extremely difficult.

Fundraising was a major part of the disagreement that led to the rift between my father and Wayne back in the mid-'90s.
At one point Wayne said something like, "Neal, you're undermining the greatest fundraising organization the world has ever seen," and Dad replied, "Wayne, it's not a fundraising organization."

What that fight boiled down to was a battle between those who saw the NRA as a shooting organization that had to fundraise to accomplish its objectives, and those who saw it as a fundraising organization that used shooting and the Second Amendment as the lever to fuel that fundraising.

In the fundraising industry, what the NRA was doing is called "churning." You buy a list from a gun magazine or other source, then spend $100k soliciting that list several times, making $200k or $300k from the solicitations, then you spend that $200k or $300k to buy another list and solicit it. Everyone that responds is put on the permanent list, while the rest are put in the backup list to be solicited occasionally. With this process, you can build a very large list of millions of people, and generate tens of millions of dollars on a pretty regular schedule.

The thing about "churning" the way NRA was doing it, is that you are always spending a hefty portion of the funds raised on list agencies, consultants, writers, printers, mailing houses, etc.
This can be done pretty efficiently and economically using in-house talent, but it can also be used to shovel huge amounts of money into the pockets of outside vendors and consultants. And you can always make the valid-seeming argument that the expenses are justified by the success of the program.

When Dad took over ILA in 1978, they tried to teach him how to write a "successful" fundraising letter, but Dad rejected their "expert" advice. They told him it needed to be slick, with bold graphics, lots of "Chicken Little" warnings in big bold headlines, at least two pages long, with multiple asks for money throughout.

They scoffed when Dad would write a 1-page letter on plain letterhead, saying "Dear John, thanks for your support of our efforts. Here's what we've raised and how we've used it. Here's what we want to try to do. If you could pitch in a few dollars, that would be a big help. Thanks, Neal"
His simple letters always far outperformed their hyped-up, fear-mongering letters by a significant margin.

Once you allow the money to be the main motivation, the churn becomes the key strategy. Too many people making money off of the process and not at all concerned with any other objectives.

We need to get the NRA weaned from that feeding cycle.

Jeff

[JeffKnox]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Jeff, hoping you and the others win seats on the board. Let’s assume for a moment that the number of board members hold at 76.
How many, a wild guess, of the other 72 do you think are of the same mindset that the 4 of you are?

I believe there are around 15 current Directors who are completely dedicated to the current regime, and an additional 10 to 12 who are pretty close to those.

Of the other 50 or so, I think about half are drinking the current regime's Kool-Aid, but some of them might be beginning to see the light, and could possibly be persuaded to take some positive action.

That leaves maybe 25 or so that have been mostly quietly sitting on the fence, knowing things aren't right, but not feeling confident that they can do anything about it, or being too afraid of losing their seats to rock the boat. Only a couple have challenged the status quo in any way.

Can we put together a coalition of Directors more concerned about the welfare of the NRA and its mission than they are about their position of honor as a member of the Board, and the feelings of their buddies who have been lying to them for years?
I don't know. We're going to try, and we'll try to get additional reformers elected next year to strengthen our numbers.

I'd like to see every NRA affiliate and state association submit at least one candidate for consideration of the Nominating Committee for next year's election, and I'd like to see the Nominating Committee stop their practice of renominating all of the incumbents except those few who dare to ask questions and rock the boat. That's not the way it's supposed to work. Board membership should be based on what each individual Director brings to the table, not who they know or how long they've been around.

Regardless of how many current directors might go along with us, or what the judge decides to do, this is not going to be a quick process. I just hope the Association can survive long enough to get back on its feet.

Jeff

[JeffKnox]

Originally Posted by bwade

Very interesting Mr. Knox. I choose to use this forum for what it is and not run a campaign on here as you have now started. I disagree with your version of the current facts and you are cherry picking your information. I came on the Board as Woody Phillips (May 2016) was beginning to leave the Treasurer's position. I did not run a campaign on here then and would not have now.

You also have ran multiple campaigns for years to get on the Board and you never informed anyone publicly on here about your campaign until this time. I wish you had been more candid about your own desires to get on the Board, because your timing to approach this forum I would suspect is opportunistic based on the current NRA situation.

I post positive articles about the NRA on here because I believe in its mission, I always have and always will. Over 40 years I have had a membership. I will support the NRA through thick and thin whether you finally get on the Board or not. I believe the NRA is what supports my right to have what I enjoy and use the forum for, that is collecting Smith and Wesson revolvers. I do not want anyone to vote for me because of promises to the folks on this forum, but I do want to post my collection and view theirs!

Also Mr. Knox, as far as arguing with you on here... I will read Proverbs 26 again.

Dear Blaine,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm really curious exactly which facts you disagree with me about?
As to campaigning on this forum, I was asked to post here about the NRA election. I'm something of a subject matter expert on the subject, and I've been a member here, though not very active, since 2011.
I think I made it pretty clear in my original, much too long post, that I was a candidate.
I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding me running multiple Board campaigns.
I did run for a seat on the Board back in 1997. That year a group of us filed suit against the NRA for blatantly violating their own Bylaws regarding the election process. We won that suit, but Wayne and company appealed the judgement just long enough to publish a notice in the ballot edition of the magazines telling folks how we had "sued your Association, costing thousands of dollars of your money..."
Right after the election, they dropped their appeal and passed a Bylaw amendment to fix the problem we had sued them over.
Until this year, I've not run for the NRA Board since then.
What I have done is support candidates I thought would stand up for the members and demand accountability for Directors.
I began purchasing my NRA Life Membership on an installment plan with my first check out of Basic Training back in 1978. I paid full price, no discount, but my Endowment upgrade was bought at a discount during one of Wayne's fire sales at an Annual Meeting of Members in 1992 or so.
I'm a strong supporter of the NRA and its mission, but I'm not a blind follower, regardless of who's in the chairs or top staff positions, and I don't spell NRA "WAYNE." If the NRA does what I think they should, I praise them and give them their due credit. If they make a misstep, I won't hesitate to call them on it, jus as I will call out GOA, SAF, NAGR, or any other group.

If I'm elected to the Board, I hope we can work together for the benefit of the members and the success of the NRA's mission.
I'm not on a vendetta, nor am I seeking any sort of glory. Truth be told, I really don't want to be on the Board, but somebody's got to do it, and I'm willing to serve a term or two in an effort to get the Association back on track and repair some of the damage that's been done.

Something I've advocated for the NRA to do for decades is to create a members-only forum where members can discuss the issues of the day and an area where members can ask Directors questions and get answers. Until the NRA provides that forum, I'll use whatever means are available to communicate with NRA members.

Looking forward to seeing you in Dallas in May.

Jeff

[fordson]

Jeff, have you tried to present your case in any other of the firearms forums? Of all the ones I frequent, this is the only one on which I’ve seen your presentation. The more exposure, obviously , the greater the response.

[JeffKnox]

Originally Posted by fordson

Jeff, have you tried to present your case in any other of the firearms forums? Of all the ones I frequent, this is the only one on which I’ve seen your presentation. The more exposure, obviously , the greater the response.

We need help with that.

I'm not much of a forum guy. I've joined several over the years and attempted to stay involved, but life gets busy and I eventually fizzle out, as happened on this forum, where I've been a member since 2011.

I've posted notes about the election on a few, and had my posts taken down by some ("No Politics!"), but I'm honestly not familiar with many, so I'm hoping people will copy and paste my original post, or a condensed version, or post original comments about the election, or links to articles on Ammoland or my website, etc.

Since only about half of all NRA members are eligible to vote, and we can't get access to the list of eligible voters, our only option is to shotgun out our message in every way we can and hope that we reach enough voters to have an impact. Having others repeat and forward our information is a huge help.

I'm open to suggestions and ideas for reaching potential voters.
And welcome any assistance anyone would like to provide.

Thanks,

Jeff