Reciprocity introduced

[ladder13]

Jim Jordan bringing it to committee. Now apparently out of committee.

The House Judiciary Committee led by Chairman Jim Jordan just voted to advance Richard Hudson’s Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act for a full floor vote in the House.

This GOA-backed nationwide carry bill also protects Constitutional Carry. If you’re a resident of a Constitutional Carry state, then you can continue to carry without a permit nationwide.
President Trump already declared that he would sign this bill into law if it reaches his desk.


I expect a lot of moaning as usual in these threads.

[Hair Trigger]

I hope it passes, we still have a Democratic majority in the NC legislature plus a Liberal governor. In any case, I'll continue my permit carry. What I'd like to see is a broadening of where you can legally carry.

On a different front, Duke did a nice job on Arizona last night, huh? Second hundred-point victory in this year's tournament.

[ladder13]

NC has a Rep majority in theory, but one vote short of being veto proof.

[AudieMurphy]

hope it passes. I used to travel the East coast on I-95...going thru Maryland was a joke with out of state tags....filled up in Virginia,I couldnt get thru there fast enough

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by AudieMurphy

hope it passes. I used to travel the East coast on I-95...going thru Maryland was a joke with out of state tags....filled up in Virginia,I couldnt get thru there fast enough

I go through MD a few times a year, it’s terrifying. Feels like they’re in the bushes waiting to pounce on you.
Started the process of a MD permit, or whatever they call it. It was so onerous I just gave up.

[robertrwalsh]

I wonder how it will address home states that do not require a permit for carry? Perhaps they will start issuing permits to address the matter? Nothing is as easy as you think it will be.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by robertrwalsh

I wonder how it will address home states that do not require a permit for carry? Perhaps they will start issuing permits to address the matter? Nothing is as easy as you think it will be.

Haven’t seen the Bill but……
Post updated answering that issue.

[crstrode]

Then there are places like Washington State.

A new bill about to be signed into law requires a WA state permit to even apply for a CCW permit. Requires training to get a permit to buy a permit, and requires a permit to even buy a firearm - oh yes, a permit is even required to buy a cartridge for the gun you need a permit to buy. It also limits the number of cartridges that can be bought each month, and only one gun can be bought in a month. Of course, this is in addition to the current WA state law that prohibits a resident from selling or even loaning a gun to anyone without yet another permit and that all such loans, gifts, or transfers must be done by an FFL, that also must have a Washington State firearms transfer license

Geeez!

[greenwellg]

Just got my CC in Virginia renewed. If I drive through Maryland I carry a very long Phllips head screwdriver .

[dben002]

I also hope it will pass .... with a rider or two attached...I can't in good faith agree that anyone 18 or older can carry concealed without some form of firearm training and some form of background check just to identify the ones that are felons or otherwise on the dark side of the law...

It sure is a step in the right direction but this may be just a bit toooooooooooooooooo liberal.

[rwt1405]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I go through MD a few times a year, it’s terrifying. Feels like they’re in the bushes waiting to pounce on you.
Started the process of a MD permit, or whatever they call it. It was so onerous I just gave up.

As I have a time share in the OBX, for 3 weeks a year, I have to travel thru MD multiple times a year, to get there (OBX), and back to PA

I obtained my MD Wear and Carry permit in early 2023, a 16-hour course/qualification

Last weekend I took my renewal course/qualification (8-hours), to be good for another 3 years

It really isn't that bad and I highly suggest you get it, if you have any need to travel thru MD

I didn't find the process difficult at all

Feel free to message me if you have any questions I might be able to help you with

Late note: OBX = Outer Banks, NC

[Bald1]

Here’s the thing. When traveling through MD just lock ii in trunk separately from ammo and unloaded. If it’s legal where your trip began and is legal at your destination you are covered by a law that I think is called Interstate something or another. But it’s a real thing.

[johngalt]

If the bill really allows someone from a constitutional carry state to carry with no permit in a state that requires one, that is going to get it thrown out as unconstitutional. Will it also say that a person carrying only has to observe carry restrictions from his home state rather than the state in which he is currently carrying? Same principle.

Equal protection under the law.

[zeke]

Living in a state bordering minnescrota and illanoid, universal carry would be nice. Yes you can stop, unconceal, unload and store in an locked carrying case. Which does absolutely nothing to protect yourself from all the miscreants these states support.

[ameridaddy]

Originally Posted by greenwellg

Just got my CC in Virginia renewed. If I drive through Maryland I carry a very long Phllips head screwdriver .

And it's worn a bit sharp, right?

[ameridaddy]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Here’s the thing. When traveling through MD just lock ii in trunk separately from ammo and unloaded. If it’s legal where your trip began and is legal at your destination you are covered by a law that I think is called Interstate something or another. But it’s a real thing.

Unfortunately, I'm not passing through when I go to Maryland, but I'm visiting family in and near Baltimore, which has one of the highest violent crime rates in the nation. They've been filming my last few unarmed trips there for episodes of "Naked and Afraid."

[CH4]

I hope it goes asses too, but if it does, I see it raining law suits from blue state AGs.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by crstrode

Then there are places like Washington State.

A new bill about to be signed into law requires a WA state permit to even apply for a CCW permit. Requires training to get a permit to buy a permit, and requires a permit to even buy a firearm - oh yes, a permit is even required to buy a cartridge for the gun you need a permit to buy. It also limits the number of cartridges that can be bought each month, and only one gun can be bought in a month. Of course, this is in addition to the current WA state law that prohibits a resident from selling or even loaning a gun to anyone without yet another permit and that all such loans, gifts, or transfers must be done by an FFL, that also must have a Washington State firearms transfer license

Geeez!

Great news is that the 9th Circus has already ruled en banc that CA's 1 on 30 days law is unconstitutional and enjoined permanently. So if this passes into law, an immediate lawsuit and injunction will occur, unless everyone is corrupt.

[BC38]

Even if this passes in the House, it has basically ZERO chance of passing in the Senate and will never make it to the desk of the President to be signed into law.

I give the House an A for effort to try to make Constitutional Carry the law of the land.

But unfortunately, it really is a moot point, since it will never pass both houses of Congress and be enacted into law.

[smoothshooter]

ZERO CHANCE.

[smoothshooter]

ZERO CHANCE.
Even if it did pass, lots of jurisdictions would refuse to comply.

[bobsguns]

Originally Posted by ladder13

This GOA-backed nationwide carry bill also protects Constitutional Carry. If you’re a resident of a Constitutional Carry state, then you can continue to carry without a permit nationwide.

That will ensure the bill gets killed on a floor vote.

They should've kept it on a carry permit only. The constitutional carry would cover states that don't allow that now. You honestly think their liberals would vote for this? Only when the Devil is throwing snowballs, IMO.

We will NEVER see a constitutional carry bill pass Congress into law. NEVER.

We COULD'VE seen a carry permit law pass based on DL's, marriage licenses, etc carrying over into other states. But we won't now.

[stansdds]

Zero chance of passing a vote by the House. I can pretty much guarantee that all of the Democrats will vote "no" and will be joined by a handful of RINO's. Even if it did make it out of the House, I do not see it getting 60 votes in the Senate.

[Imissedagain]

Bringing up a bill for personal attention OR to get passed.
Nationwide carry for state license holders, would make sense, for an attempt as passage.

[Bald1]

Funny how EVERYONE here believes carrying a gun is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 2A. Yet when a congressman tries to accomplish this people immediately poo poo it. They start talking about permits. Jordan is swinging for the bleachers. I applaud his efforts.

[Imissedagain]

In the batter's box, hits count, not strikeouts.

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Funny how EVERYONE here believes carrying a gun is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 2A. Yet when a congressman tries to accomplish this people immediately poo poo it. They start talking about permits. Jordan is swinging for the bleachers. I applaud his efforts.

The law of unintended consequences still rules. Bad law is bad law even if we temporarily benefit.

While some think the “full faith and credit” clause applies to permits, it is quite the stretch to claim it applies to the lack of a license or court judgement.

[Bald1]

Law passage is a negotiation. You gotta start somewhere.

[bobsguns]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Funny how EVERYONE here believes carrying a gun is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 2A. Yet when a congressman tries to accomplish this people immediately poo poo it. They start talking about permits. Jordan is swinging for the bleachers. I applaud his efforts.

Yeah, but he's swinging while blindfolded, ignoring the political reality of the landscape.

I'm critical of his squandering political capital over something that will NEVER pass either house.

[bobsguns]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Law passage is a negotiation. You gotta start somewhere.

But one doesn't ask for sex with their date in the first 5 minutes, do they? Normally, I mean. No, they don't.

Horrible tactic on Jordan's part, IMO.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Funny how EVERYONE here believes carrying a gun is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 2A. Yet when a congressman tries to accomplish this people immediately poo poo it. They start talking about permits. Jordan is swinging for the bleachers. I applaud his efforts.

Nothing is in stone.
Kudo’s to Jordan for showing some balls.

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by bobsguns

But one doesn't ask for sex with their date in the first 5 minutes, do they? Normally, I mean. No, they don't.

Horrible tactic on Jordan's part, IMO.

Wait ! What ??????

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Funny how EVERYONE here believes carrying a gun is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 2A. Yet when a congressman tries to accomplish this people immediately poo poo it. They start talking about permits. Jordan is swinging for the bleachers. I applaud his efforts.

Jordan needs to pick battles he can WIN.
This is not one of them.

[bushmaster1313]

This has been tried before--with no success.

The trick will be getting it through a Senate filibuster. Only hope is to get it attached to a bill being passed through reconciliation.

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by bushmaster1313

This has been tried before--with no success.

The trick will be getting it through a Senate filibuster. Only hope is to get it attached to a bill being passed through reconciliation.

Try try again. I really don’t understand the mindset here. I think some just like to complain. You accomplish nothing if you don’t try. Jordan has got the conversation started. Let’s see where it goes.

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by rwt1405

As I have a time share in the OBX, for 3 weeks a year, I have to travel thru MD multiple times a year, to get there (OBX), and back to PA

I obtained my MD Wear and Carry permit in early 2023, a 16-hour course/qualification

Last weekend I took my renewal course/qualification (8-hours), to be good for another 3 years

It really isn't that bad and I highly suggest you get it, if you have any need to travel thru MD

I didn't find the process difficult at all

Feel free to message me if you have any questions I might be able to help you with

What is OBX ?

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Try try again. I really don’t understand the mindset here. I think some just like to complain. You accomplish nothing if you don’t try. Jordan has got the conversation started. Let’s see where it goes.

I fail to see the benefits of this proposed bill that most of our population centers jurisdictions will simply ignore.

[rwt1405]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

What is OBX ?

Sorry,

OBX = Outer Banks, NC

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

I fail to see the benefits of this proposed bill that most of our population centers jurisdictions will simply ignore.

Ignoring a federal law will have repercussions. But this is a prime example of the defeatist attitude I’m talking about. It’s always “ someone should do something” but when someone does try to do something the negativity starts flowing.

[ladder13]

Here is the H.R.38 language.


Just a moment...

[Onomea]

Reading the bill in Ladder13's link, "Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act," it says:

If you have a CHL from your state of residence, and have it on you along with another valid photo ID, then you can carry in other states and they can't give you a hard time about it.

I don't think it is referring to permit-less carry or what we normally call "constitutional carry."

...Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machine gun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that—

“(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm; or

“(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

“(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—

“(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

“(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, or base....

[Bald1]

Onomea, finally someone making sense. Someone actually taking the time to read it. And if there are permitless states that do not issue permits, I think these are the states that will gladly begin issuing permits for out of state carry. Many states already do for the sole purpose of reciprocity.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Onomea, finally someone making sense. Someone actually taking the time to read it. And if there are permitless states that do not issue permits, I think these are the states that will gladly begin issuing permits for out of state carry. Many states already do for the sole purpose of reciprocity.

In fairness, the GOA article I read was not clear on CC states or the Bill. Mea culpa.

[Onomea]

Mike, thanks for posting a link to the original bill.

It seems to me that to have a chance to achieve success, there will need to be some consensus on minimum training or experience requirements. (The same argument made above about why a "no permit required other than the existence of the 2A" bill would not succeed.)

I am not a 2A absolutist in that I think training and basic skills requirements (or experience) are reasonable requirements for concealed or open carry in public. While I realize many, probably most of us, are not of this view, I think most CHL permit holders in states requiring training were willing to go through application, fingerprinting, training, etc., in order to exercise their rights anyway. It's a tradeoff most people will accept.

Still seems a long shot — nationwide reciprocity — to me, but just maybe. Someday...

[dockmurgw]

I'm no lawyer, but the way I read this, a person would not need to have a CC permit. It says OR is entitled to carry in their home state, it does not say AND is required. So...I am entitled to carry in my home state, and since permits have never been required here, I do not have one. As I read this, I would be entitled to carry anywhere without a permit since its legal for me to carry in my home state.

"and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,"

[Onomea]

Hmm. Maybe you are right, Doc...

Perhaps one of our lawyer members will parse it for us...

[dockmurgw]

Originally Posted by Onomea

Hmm. Maybe you are right, Doc...

Perhaps one of our lawyer members will parse it for us...

Pro Bono, I hope!

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by dockmurgw

I'm no lawyer, but the way I read this, a person would not need to have a CC permit. It says OR is entitled to carry in their home state, it does not say AND is required. So...I am entitled to carry in my home state, and since permits have never been required here, I do not have one. As I read this, I would be entitled to carry anywhere without a permit since its legal for me to carry in my home state.

"and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,"

I think a driver license from a constitutional carry state that does not issue permits is the thinking. But again if this becomes law the states not issuing permits would gladly issue a permit at some cost to you. The states that allow CC without a permit are not the ones we need to worry about.

[Onomea]

Well, looks like I read it wrong, and that dockmurgw and others are right:

I've been hoping one of our legal beagles would drop by and explain to us whether or not the bill requires states (e.g., CA) that do not recognize the right of a person from a state (e.g., AZ) that recognizes permitless carry to carry in their state (CA in this example.)

No legal beagles have come by to enlighten us so today I asked ChatGPT today, an AI app.

Here is the result











My view, as I think I wrote above, is that setting minimum requirements for permits, and requiring states to recognize one another's permits, would be a more successful strategy to achieve the goal of CCW reciprocity.

[dockmurgw]

Originally Posted by Onomea

I've been hoping one of our legal beagles would drop by

They might have, if I didn't mention Pro Bono