Someone argued this point to me the other day.

The argument was that if you were looking for a woods gun or something to defend against predators, the .44 magnum is a better choice, whether it's a S&W 29, Ruger Redhawk, etc. If the recoil of the 44 is too much for some shooters, they can use downloaded rounds that are manageable but still more effective than the .357.

If you are looking for defense against humans, rounds like the .40 S&W and .45ACP are better, because they have plenty of knockdown power without the recoil, flash, or muzzle blast of the .357 magnum. This is not a revolver vs. semiauto thread, but a Glock 22 will hold 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds of .357 in a S&W 686 and still only weighs a little over half as much as the 686.

What do you think? I am not saying that I agree with this argument, and I will always be fond of the .357 magnum, but I find myself perhaps agreeing to an extent. If I am in the woods I take my .44, which I can load with anything from light to hot 44 specials up to magnums. For civilian (or even LEO) self-defense, I don't feel like the .357 magnum does anything that the .40 S&W can't do, with less recoil, blast and noise. You could argue that the 45ACP does not have enough penetration, or that the 9mm doesn't have enough power, but the 40 seems to do well enough.

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Aaron Terry

I better give away all my .357s then

So - do you need my address to ship them to???

I'll pm my shipping address.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I see the point, but you could argue just the other way....

While a 40 or 45 is not enough for a woods gun, and a 44 mag is too much to carry for a daily protection weapon, 357 magnum can do either or both. I think that a 357 would do much better against creatures in the woods than a 40 or 45, and being realistic, who carries a 44 magnum on the streets daily? The 357 may not be the best for either, but adequate for both. Not obsolete, efficient

.357 mag will take out most men or beast in North America but yet is still small enough for everyday carry. Hardly obsolete.

Well, I guess my 1000 rounds of ammo is junk, any one want it?

PM incoming to send all 357 ammo and firearms. I will dispose of them safely and humanely.

Thank you very much, I just knew all that guns and stuff was no good, I am very thrilled that some one will junk it out

I agree, but hate to use it on the big bears to save my but.

Key word. "Most."

I've been to a lot of shootings over the last 34 years. Rifles, shotguns and handguns, you name it. Nothing and I mean nothing in the realm of handguns has been as devastating as the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP. Make no mistake, other guns have killed more, especially the 9mm, but as far as just opening up a can of whoop *** on a human body, the .357 is hard to beat. YMMV.

if you were to use it on big bear always remember to "FILE THE FRONT SITE"

Been there done that. Two years ago on the Appalachian Trail. Large female black bear went all nasty with me. Two Buffalo Bore .357 rounds out of a 6" Model 66-1 took care of the situation quite nicely.

Whomever says the .357 is obsolete is really quite naïve.

Bob

So the .40 S&W can generate over 1000ft/lbs of energy????

(Energy from max load data of 125gr XTP with 22grs of H110 @41,400CUP, generating 1966ft/s, which works out to about 1072ft*lbs)

I call Hokum and Sheep Dip.

The .357 in a K-Mag is about the best woods / belt gun we have here in the North East.

This one goes out often.

Horse Hockey!

While the .44 can be loaded heavier and hotter, one always doesn't need that much power. The .44 is also going to require a large framed revolver while a .357 can be had in large, medium and small framed lighter weight guns. While the .40S&W and .45ACP can be used for personal defense they don't offer the versatility of the .357 Magnum. The .357 can be loaded with snakeshot, high velocity lightweight bullets, and deep penetrating 180gr bullets moving at very respectable velocities. One doesn't have to worry about slide speeds, changing out recoil springs or anything else that may effect reliability when changing loads. Yeah it can have flash and bang when loaded hot but .40 can also bark and be snappy. I've got .44's, .45's, .40's and a lot of .357's. The .357's aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

In Michigan you can not have a magazine that holds ore than 5 Rds while hunting in a autoloader so if you are in the woods dont hunt with one

A plug that fits within the spring of an auto's box magazine could be made to limit capacity, not unlike the plugs duck hunters use in shotgun's magazines.

Not in my book. The 357 and 10mm rule as far as I am concerned.

from a 1 7/8 inch barrel double tap lists a 125 at 1425. I really doubt that that is obsolete.

from a 1 7/8 inch barrel double tap lists a 125 at 1425. I really doubt that that is obsolete. I think that I am going to buy that m & p 340 after all! Do you guys think that occassional use of these bullets would be manageable?

No. I'm sure someone is the exception, but I shoot hard kicking guns and Remington 125 gr. SJHPs (R357M1) are too much for me out of my 360 PD. It's not a matter of being uncomfortable. It's that last time I fired five rounds, my right hand took a month and a half to recover. Speer SB .357 is likely to be the stoutest thing that will work and that's what I carry. YMMV

Backup depository for all .357s and ammo! I only have 5 of them so a few more will keep them company

Clearly an 870 with 0 Buck or a 45/70 (I saw a neat 45/70 double rifle the other day!) is the answer to serious social problems at short range.
Why take a handgun at all?
Why take a 40 S&W when you could take a 10mm (and I quite frequently do take a 10mm).
I have a P239 in 40, it usually is at home.
Why do I usually carry a .357, because I can conceal my 640 under most anything I wear, which is a problem here in the summer. So most of the year it’s a 640 or a 60-10 3”.
These things have to come down to practicality sooner or later.

If there was even a slight chance I would encounter a Grizzly I would carry appropriate arms, but there is no chance.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

If you need 16 rounds of .357 Magnum to stop a threat you shouldn't be carrying a handgun, get a AK-47 or AR-15.

As for only 6 rounds and "excessive" weight, there are now .357 Magnum revolvers which carry 8 rounds and weigh only 27oz. Hardly double the weight of a Glock 22 which weighs 23oz empty. Yes it will hold 16 rounds but then again, go back to what I started this post with.

A note about the 40 S&W or .45 Auto being better against human targets than the .357 Magnum, all the data I've read says NOT....

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I love hi-cap's, one can miss fast and often! Sure the odd exception occur's now and again, but if a trained shooter cannot solve the problem with six round's, it wont get solved with seventeen. The 125gr JHP in .357 is the round that is the standard for one shot stop's. They dident call it the lightning bolt for nothing!

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Stay safe people!

A trained shooter cannot stop 7 threats with 6 rounds, wear the wrong color while making a wrong turn in south central L.A. and you'll wish for hi cap support.

Let me just say that if 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 don't understand what happened to 1 and 2 and run away in your scenario, then they ought to be pretty easy to deal with . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

The reason these old, obsolete cartridges are still around is because whether by chance or design they work well.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

It is a conceit of the wheelman to expect high capacity equals propensity to spray and pray.
I have been a fan of the Browning High Power since before most police started carrying semiautos. I also own a Beretta 92FS. In either case, I count on aimed fire to help the 9mm perform, not volume.
That having been said, I am perfectly confident in the Ruger SP101 3" 357mag, and it's five rounds of DoubleTap 125gn Bonded Core JHP that is in my belt right now.

Dident mean to diss all hi-cap owner's, heck, I own and like my Hi Power and two S&W M&P's one in 9mm and one in 45ACP. Also I am a 1911 fanatic although all of mine are single stack's. However there is a lot of untrained and uninformed people out there LEO and civilian alike who rely on firepower to get a hit. The last shootout my department was in was a hi rounder with the only hit made was to the roof of one of my patrol car's by one of our Trooper's!

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Stay safe people!

Sir, the guy makes some good points, but they don't make the .357 obsolete. There's still a need for revolvers with more power than a .38, but less bulk than a .44.

FWIW, I'm somewhat conflicted about the .357. I like its accuracy, versatility, ubiquity, and that some very fine guns are chambered for it. I do not like the noise and recoil of full loads--if I'm going to deal with that level of drama, I want a bigger bullet.

JMHO.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

I usually get started on something about the time it becomes obsolete. I have an affinity for obsolete guns, cars, motorcycles, radios, tractors. Since I have started buying .357 magnum revolvers, it may be a sign that the OP is right and they are indeed now obsolete. Obsolete just means "the crowd" has moved on to something different. Different doesn't always mean better and the logic of "crowds" is sometimes difficult to fathom. The results of recent elections speak volumes on the wisdom of crowds.

I agree with you Beemerphile.

That is why I like the 357 sig, 357 Maximum, 357 Mag, 38-55, 38 Super, 30/30winchester, 25-06, 220 Swift, 222 etc.

I love the obsolete rounds. By the time they get to that stage they are just right for me to jump in, get nice pieces from the shooters that don't like them anymore because they are "obsolete" and really use them. Yes they are niche pieces to most, but to me they are fun!

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SWCA 1646

Fact: 357 revolvers are the most versitile (sic) weapons out there...can handle everything from 38 short Colt, shotshells, all the way up to armor piercing 357 rounds.

Fact: 357's can be had in everything from J frame Smiths up to something that can only be mounted in the back bed of a large pickup (so to speak)

Without getting into the semiauto/revolver feud, most defensive situtations occur in just a few feet with only a few rounds fired. A 357 (and even 38+P) with proper loads are a sure stopper.

I often carry a Charter Arms (1980's) Tracker 357 snubby during road trips and on hikes in the woods and have complete confidence in it. A "survival" gun, if you will. Today, I will be packing my M28-2 4". (loaded with Remington 158 SJHP's)

As far as obsolete, I think if it ever came down to it, the 357 Magnum would probably be around long, long after the others have fallen.

No, it's not going to stop everything (what does?) but what it does it does very very well and has done so since 1935.

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The Last Standing Knight

Agreed. It is my favorite round powerful,controllable , available and versatile...

The 357 Magnum isn't obsolete at my house.

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195th Session FBINA

Rubbish...

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Pace

People tell me my 72 3/4 ton Power wagon is obsolete too. I just tell them they don't know what they are talking about.

People will always pick the example that tips the scale towards the point they are trying to make.

Anyone price .44 magnum ammo lately?




















Touche!

[QUOTE=flop-shank;1250926]Anyone price .44 magnum ammo lately?

Yep. 25 cents a round from my re-loader. lead, powder, primer and cases which I already have.

It would appear your debate opponent doesn't understand the term, "obsolete."

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With S&W, you're holding history in your hand

I'd have not even argued with this obviously ignorant individual, I'd have laughed and told him that he's a fool(or something worse) and left it at that. And comparing the 357 to the 40 is friggin laughable, the 40 is a unecessary round these days. When it was introduced it did fill a void but with todays bullets it's uneeded. The 9mm or 45 will do the same job.

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Sie vis pacem parabellum

What this means in this context is that if the .40 is more powerful, it will have more recoil - simple phisics. To try to fault a cartridge for having both too much recoil and too little power shows a lack of understanding. Education today is clearly lacking.

To say something is obsolete implies there is something else that gives equal or better results faster, cheaper, etc. and that something else is both more widely distributed and accepted. What pistol cartridge is more widely distributed and accepted than the .357 magnum?

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Big bang, much smash'em.

I can see how number crunchers might make a case for this based on ammo sales.
Not an accurate assessment due to lack of available ammo in the recent past, LEO use of automatics and handloaders.

I can see how number crunchers might make a case for this based on revolver sales.
Without actually checking, I would bet that comparing sales of new revolver vs automatics purchased for HD or SD today with numbers from 1960's or 1970's would indicate a notable decrease in revolver sales.
This is thanks mainly to better powders and quality control in ammo manufacturing, high capacity magazines and calibers such as the 40 S&W, 10mm and the 357 Sig. I believe that there are more quality automatics available at reasonable prices to choose from today.
If a depedable 357 Magnum auto-pistol could be had at a reasonable price, the story might be a little different.

If I had to be forced into choosing only handgun caliber, it would be the 357 Magnum. It is my very favorite handgun caliber. My 686 protects my home. But, away from home I bring a 40 or 45, higher capacity, pistol. I've also condidered a 357 Sig but, not yet.

Not obsolete, just less popular with today's generation. IMHO, it's due in large part to a drop in the popularity of revolvers as compared to automatics used for HD, SD and by LEO's .

Oh well, maybe some will want to rid themselves of 357 revolvers. More for me.

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" I don't recall, senator."

I disagree, in my part of the country I can't find 357 magnum reliably the last 3 years. 40 S&W is readily available. Furthermore in terms of Lawman performance, the 40 S&W is the holstered equivalent of the 357 magnum.

Notice the bulk of American Law enforcement over the last century has used a cartridge with S&W stamped on it. They work effectively for human sized targets.

Agreed. It sounds like something one of these Millenial gunshop guys that are under 22, just got a job at a gun shop, have a Glock .40 on their belt behind the counter and think they are an expert and up to date on all the "new stuff".

Since the 357 is dead I should'nt have any problems getting all those neat little 3" S&W ones I want then.

I don't care as I'm obsolete as well.