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Best .357 mag Duty Round

8-Shot

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I am newer to the forum and wanted to get some opinions on .357mag duty ammo. I am a police officer and I recently started carrying a 4 inch Smith & Wesson 627 Pro Series as my duty gun. All of our ammo is provided by the department. For our duty rounds I have a choice between the 125gr Remington Golden Saber Hollow Points and the 158gr Winchester Lead Nose Jacketed Hollow Points. I have read all the stuff about the 125gr being the best round, but there seems to be about as many that prefer the 158gr. Any of you that use to or still do carry a revolver what do you prefer. Keep in mind those are my only 2 choices due to dept. policies.
 
I have always been a big believer in bigger weight bullets. I don't even carry 125 grain bullets in my .357's, period. They have a great rep, but my preference is always for 158 and up.
 
I agree with David, I also like a heavier bullet BUT, all the data tells me the 125gr .357 Magnum round is a proven man stopper. If you are going to carry this for duty ammo I would go with the proven product. Remington Golden saber ammo is a good accurate ammo and like I said, the 125gr bullet is a proven man stopper.

Be safe out there...
 
When the 357 was a lot more common in Police holsters than now the 125gr JHP got to be known as the "magic bullet." Back then it was generally a Remington but anybodies full magnum round will do.
 
In your line of work you need a round that can penetrate such commonly encountered materials as windshield (laminated) glass, sheet metal, plywood and heavy clothing and still deliver deep enough penetration on a human target to reach vitals. The same holds true if faced with quartering shots on bad guys in dynamic situations (all shots are not taken at bad guys facing full frontal). For those purposes the 125gr Magnum is not nearly as good as the 158gr load of the two you listed.
 
Preferably I would stick with the 125 for the simple fact that it IS proven to be effective. In a 4" barrel I am not sure the 158 is going to get the necessary velocity to be effective. Just me opinion
 
I believe either would serve you well. But keep in mind the Remington Golden Saber isn't a full house 125gr magnum. The Golden Saber is a medium velocity magnum, 1250fps vs 1450fps. It makes a great short barrel round and is much better than any +P .38 round. But it's not the firebreathing hotrod 125gr with the bad flame cutting rep.
 
8-Shot,

Do yourself a huge favor and google search gary roberts 357 magnum.

Dr. Gary Roberts is one of the nation's foremost authorities on ballistics and terminal performance.
 
Don't obsess about the round in your gun. Do not focus on worst case possible scenarios that have more in common with a fantasy Zombie invasion than real life. Focus on making sure that, if the time ever comes, you can get your revolver out of the holster and into action quickly and effectively. Focus on being able to accomplish a reload under less than ideal conditions. As far as the round is concerned, the "pedal point" Remington 125 gr. JHP was one of many such loadings that established the .357 S&W Magnum as a premier load. I've seen what results when it is used. The 158 gr. JHP is also a fine load. It will not give such impressive results on people. It will probably do a better job with barriers. No handgun is a 100% guaranteed one-shot stopper. None of them will stop speeding cars with a single bullet. Hopefully you will never need to use your weapon on anything other than a paper target when training or qualifying. However, I would suggest that the 125 gr. JHP is about the best possible choice given the two loads you mentioned. JMHO. Merry Christmas!!!
 
Just remember people, he can only choose from the 2 approved loads offered by his department.

That said there is good advice in telling you to be sure you can hit what you are aiming at and reload quickly if need be. Any factory .357 Magnum ammo will stop the bad guy if you do your job and concentrate on shot placement under pressure.
 
The real question is, what kind of "genius" would allow you to carry a revolver, 8-shot or otherwise, while on-duty in this day and age? Allowing revolvers and then limiting the ammunition choices to only two loads makes the decision even more bizarre.

I retired from the New Jersey State Police in April 1991 and carried a revolver for over half my career. I LOVE revolvers and still own more wheelguns than autoloaders by a margin of 2 to 1.

That said, I would no more want to again be a Jersey Trooper armed with a revolver in today's world than I would want to be armed with a bolt-action Springfield '03 rifle in a modern combat environment. There are just too many real world incidents that occur every day, like multiple assailants, that will put you and your revolver at a distinct disadvantage. Ask yourself how many state police agencies and how many major city police departments carry revolvers in 2010 and then ask yourself why? In the case of the NJSP, in 1982 we demanded autoloaders after two back-to-back shootings, one in which Trooper Phil Lamonaco #2663 was fatally shot, where lone troopers faced multiple assailants armed with autoloaders.




P.S.- Just some advice from an old, retired cop to the OP......
You, as a police officer with the legal obligation to "protect and serve" even when that means putting yourself in grave peril, MUST consider those "worst case scenarios" and prepare yourself for them the best you can if you hope to live out your career. If you're a religious man, a short prayer can go a long way too.

Best wishes to you.
 
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Of the 2 you mentioned, I'd go with the one you can control in recoil and gives you the best repeat shot capability!
The Golden Saber is a lite load (something like 1,250fps) where as the 158gr round does about 1,350 or better, just to give you some numbers to kick around.
Now I've read that the 158gr round does have some problems with overpenetration of perps, but if barrier penetration is needs it's supposedly a good round.
Try both and go with the one that shoots best for YOU! And buy yourself a backup gun too!
 
I went to the range and tried 25 rounds of both. The 158gr seemed to group better for me from point shoulder shooting and from supported positions. I'm going to go with the 158gr. Thanks for all your opinions. I know some feel it's a foolish idea to carry a revolver in this day and age, but I shoot it so much better than our glocks. We also had a bad problem with our model 22 and a failure to feed. I also feel that with all the 1911 and Sig p220's around with 8-10 rounds magazines that I'm not that out gunned. I can reload with my moon clips as fast as most with a semi-auto. I also like the stopping power and reputation of the 357 along with the reliability of a revolver. Once again thank you all for your thoughts and opinions on this. I feel that your opinions are better than most published "experts".
 
Just be safe out there 8-Shot and "protect and serve" the best way you know how...

Actually, if you can reload 8 rounds of .357 Magnum using moon clips as fast as 7 or 8 rounds of .45 Auto in a magazine I don't see a problem with your choice. Carrying a 5 or 6 round revolver might not be a wise choice but an 8 round revolver sounds like an alright choice to me. (as long as you can reload it quickly under pressure) BUT, if you do run out of ammo there won't be anyone who can pass you a reload like if you were using a department common handgun like the Sig 220 or 1911.
 
IMO, as much as I love the Golden Saber rounds in both the 9mm and .45ACP, when it is in the .357, the round is isn't as "hot" as the 158 winchester round.
 
From 1981 until 1991, I carried a .357 Magnum revolver with the load of my choice to work every day. I had several gun built on several frame sizes with several lengths of barrels. I quickly found that a Model 66 with a 6 inch barrel worked best for me.

For ammo, my research found that the best man-stopper was the Federal 125 grain .357 Magnum hollow point, so that's what I always carried, except for a brief dalliance with the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip Magnum. The Silvertip had a lot less muzzle flash and blast than did the 125 grainer. A lot, LOT less flash, toned down even a bit more by my 6 inch barrels compared to everybody's 2-1/2, 3 and 4 inch barrels.

I patrolled an area on the east side of the Salt Lake valley, Wasatch Boulevard, from which rose Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons. Located up these canyons were the world class ski resorts of Snowbird, Alta, Solitude and Brighton. The traffic was incredible in the winter, with skiers cars and vans, UTA busses, box and semi trucks delivering food, drinks and materials hotels use. The vehicles continually were colliding with the large population of Rocky Mountain Mule deer, reeking havoc upon for sheetmetal, glass, skin, meat and fur. The carnage would at times be boosted by having a large Shiras moose stop a car or truck unexpectedly, or some of the magnificent elk that call these canyons and foothills home get knocked off their legs and slammed across the sedan's hood, and then tear the windshield and roof of the car clear off, sometimes removing the car''s occupants heads, sometimes just crushing them.

As one would expect, we were called upon to put these injured beasts out of their misery. I found that the 125 grain .357 did a great job on all deer and most elk and moose if you could apply the proper angle to the proper anatomy. The poor beasts died quickly when the bullets went where needed.

I shot a lot of injured deer, a big lot of BIG injured deer. Shots were rarely further than 25 yards.

This 125 grain Magnum performance on deer have me confidence that the round would work well on people that had gotten to a point where we needed to shoot them. Few police agencies around the U.S. that tried the 125 grain .357 Mag j.h.p. found it's ability to stop animal animation anything but stellar, be the targets have two legs or four.

Other deputies had good luck with 158 grainers, when the hollowpoints actually opened. Since people are more likely to attack cops than are large quadrapeds, i went with the 125's. God's grace showered down upon me and for those 10 years, I never had to shoot a human antagonist.

A gun that shot 8 instead of just 6 .357 Magnum rounds would have been a happy thing to have back then.

I had located a source of steel core 9mm bullets, FMJ design, that weighed close to 125 grains, just a smidge over. I experimented and found they could be loaded into .357 Mag cases to amazing velocities and this resulted in tremendous barrier penetration. I kept a sppedloader of six of them on my belt, figuring that if 12 or 18 rounds hadn't settled the hash, the targets had hunkered behind stuff, and maybe a better penetrator would help. Other than ventilating one moose's skull once, these metal piercers were untested on animals. I was glad I had them. I DID NOT DISCUSS THEM with my supervisors.

Lots of good bullets today, the best we have ever had. I would be comfortable with either full power 125 or 158 grain j.h.p.'s loaded to the maximum safe standards.
 
I'm a retired wildlife officer and carried a 686 in the early '90's until the Dept. went to Glock 22's. I always felt well protected with the revolver, and actually shot it a little better than the Glock but I was an old revolver shooter from way back anyway. I'm not knocking the Glock (I bought both the 22's I was issued when reissue/retirement came along and also had my own G27 for a backup), I just felt that we mainly went to them because "everybody else" was doing so.

We could carry whatever factory ammunition we liked, so I carried the Federal 125 grain JHP; at the time it was about the best performer in actual shootings. I think you made a good choice with the 158 grain load in this case; I wonder if the 125 GS wasn't sort of an accommodation to some folks that might be a little recoil shy?

Be safe.
 
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