LOBO
Member
I know of one OIS with the 145 gr ST's. The ST worked, and the LEO went home safely.
145 grain Silvertip in 3" Model 13
- Thread starter bassoneer
- Start date
Wayne Dobbs
Member
LOBO,
The STHP was an issue load for Dallas PD back in the 80s-90s and was used to kill literally dozens of BGs here. The .38 load was the Winchester or Remington 158 +P LHP and it worked very well also.
The STHP was an issue load for Dallas PD back in the 80s-90s and was used to kill literally dozens of BGs here. The .38 load was the Winchester or Remington 158 +P LHP and it worked very well also.
bobcat
US Veteran
I carried them on duty for years in my Model 28, still my favorite magnmum load. I have a few rounds left from those days around the house, but haven't seen or bought any in years. I used them in my 2.5" 66 also with no ill effects. A very good round...
Still the best anti-personnel .357 load as far as I am concerned. 125s are too light. 
LOBO
Member
Oh no doubt its a great bullet. It and Corbons 125 gr DPX are my loads of choice for caliber.
What I meant in my post was an OIS that occured locally in the late 80's. Thankfully there hasn't been another since, except for shots taken to disable vehicles.
I've been able to find it locally lately and have been buying all I can afford. It's my favorite .357 round that I've run across. I use it for a SD round in my 66-5 3.25". I've also been contemplating using it for deer hunting out of my 627 5.5", but haven't had the chance yet. Maybe next year.
Stu Honea
Member
Ammo To Go is now showing this round in stock also.
I believe that Tropper Mark Coates (RIP) used these on his murderer years ago. He put five into the scumbag's chest but it never fazed him and he sits today in prison. Google it & you can watch the shooting. Be prepared to lose faith real fast in the Win. ST however.
I swore by the old Rem. & Fed. 125gr. Mag. HP's but today I am thinking the SCHP (solid copper HP) as made by Barnes and loaded by them in their Vortex line might be a better choice in 140 gr. or the Corbon 125 gr. DPX SCHP.
LOBO
Member
I should have stated in my original post that the one OIS that I know about, the Officer was using the Win ST and it happened in my AO back in the late 1980's. Thankfully there has not been another OIS in my AO since that one occured.
Regarding Trooper Coates' OIS, from what I have read the shots were to the perps abdomen. But regardless of the location of the Troopers shots, the outcome was obviously not a good one.
I have searched for ballistic testing of the Winchester 145 gr Silvertip using ballistic gel & 4 layers of denim but I have yet to find any. I hope to find some so as to see if the denim clogs the HP cavity, and also if the bullet suffers from core/jacket seperation.
Remember that there is no magic bullet, nor caliber. A single bad report with a load doesn't mean that load is too be avoided at all costs, just like a single positive report for a load doesn't make it the "end all be all" load.
I agree with you about the DPX bullet. I think it along with the HST, and Gold Dot bullets are the best to be had in todays ammo. The LAPD, and the NYPD both issue the Gold Dot in .38 special (135 gr +P short barrel load) as well as in 9mm (124 gr +P).
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You're absolutely right and to be fair this was with an earlier "generation" of the ST. Winchester "tweaked" the ST line a last time in the early 2000's and to be frank they are fantastic, especially the .44 Special. However, Win. does not push the line as heavy as before as the name "Silvertip" has forever been unfairly associated with the Miami Shootout of '86. They should have changed the name & color like they did with Black Talon.
Here's an objective 4 layer denim/ballistic gel test of your round:
StoppingPower.net Forums - Winchester .357 mag 145 gr STHP
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I carried the 145 grain Silvertip .357 Mag loading for a couple of years in my normal duty gun, a 6 inch barreled Model 66, and in my cool weather off-duty and plain clothes gun, a 3 inch barreled Model 66.
I liked the low muzzle flash the powder produced. Velocities were neatly between the Federal 125 grain JHP and the Federal 158 grain JHP.
I shot at least a dozen mule deer, from yearlings to very large mature bucks, that had been injured by automobiles. Most were still on their feet to some degree. These rounds worked very, very well. I never had to shoot any deer twice to kill him. These deer were generally pumped with adrenalin and seemed harder to kill quickly than an uninjured deer taken unawares.
The Silvertip made then (early to mid 1980's) was a very effective defensive round. Silvertips loaded now look pretty much like the old ones I still have.
I liked the low muzzle flash the powder produced. Velocities were neatly between the Federal 125 grain JHP and the Federal 158 grain JHP.
I shot at least a dozen mule deer, from yearlings to very large mature bucks, that had been injured by automobiles. Most were still on their feet to some degree. These rounds worked very, very well. I never had to shoot any deer twice to kill him. These deer were generally pumped with adrenalin and seemed harder to kill quickly than an uninjured deer taken unawares.
The Silvertip made then (early to mid 1980's) was a very effective defensive round. Silvertips loaded now look pretty much like the old ones I still have.
amd6547
Member
I guess that if we are to take the Trooper Coates shooting as our lesson, then we should sell our 357's and carry NAA 22 mini revolvers.
I never, ever see the Silvertip 357 load for sale. Not at gun shops, not at large gun shows with numerous ammo dealers.
I would like to shoot some, but not enough to pay shipping on it.
I never, ever see the Silvertip 357 load for sale. Not at gun shops, not at large gun shows with numerous ammo dealers.
I would like to shoot some, but not enough to pay shipping on it.
LOBO
Member
Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that before. I would like to have seen the average recovered diameter instead of the recovered diameter at the widest point which could be misleading. Pictures would have been great too, but beggers can't be choosers I suppose
Here is a good one with great info from Doctor Gary K. Roberts,
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
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LOBO
Member
Natchez SS, and Cheaper Than Dirt had it in stock the last time I looked which was only a few days ago. But they would have to be shipped.
Winchester doesn't make this load year round, but only in batches or "seasonal runs" if you will. This could explain why you don't see it locally.
