Which heavy ammo for .357?

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oldgun

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Please comment/inform me what heavy ammo is best for my 686 4" . I see 180 and 200 grain hardcast .357 ammo from a number of suppliers and want to do the right thing for my gun and my application, which is being in the western mountains off trail frequently where you can run into anything. The last time I was out, I almost stepped on a couger skull when climbing over a log, and I know I've been stalked several times, seeing the tracks on the return trip through snow fields or river flats. This includes pack trips into grizz country too. I'm sticking w/ the 686, but want advice on which heavy load to buy.

Thx, Oldgun
 
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oldgun said:
Please comment/inform me what heavy ammo is best for my 686 4". I see 180 and 200 grain hardcast .357 ammo from a number of suppliers and want to do the right thing for my gun and my application, which is being in the western mountains off trail frequently where you can run into anything. The last time I was out, I almost stepped on a couger skull when climbing over a log, and I know I've been stalked several times, seeing the tracks on the return trip through snow fields or river flats. This includes pack trips into grizz country too. I'm sticking w/ the 686, but want advice on which heavy load to buy.

Thx, Oldgun
Click to expand...
I have the same gun and live in Grizzly, Black Bear, and Cougar country. This is the load I use and find superior to all others.....
• Click It
 
I would concur with 851 on this one, as far as opting for a 180gr over a 200gr.

Either will give you pretty similar penetration, but you get more velocity and energy with the 180gr.
 
Thanks David. I'm also from the Evergreen state. I appreciate the help trying to get educated on the gun and want to take care of it, not shoot anything that will screw it up. Sure is a great gun.

I bought some FMJ .38 specials from Lellier & Bellot last week down at Sportco in Fife and the local indoor gun range wouldn't let me use them, saying they had hardened cores or something they showed me with a magnet that attracted the bullet. He called it a penetrator. The range guy also said that a lot of that ammo wouldn't be good for the gun. I doubt 3 boxes will hurt though. That got me asking questions about the heavy ammo I want for mountain time.

Thx, Oldgun
 
Thanks Mike. I'll go with the 180's. It makes sense to me. I had a local dealer try to sell me some 200's and wanted to give it some though and get other opinions, which is what I really enjoy about this S&W forum.

I appreciate your help sorting through this subject.

Thx, Oldgun
 
oldgun said:
Thanks David. I'm also from the Evergreen state. I appreciate the help trying to get educated on the gun and want to take care of it, not shoot anything that will screw it up. Sure is a great gun.

I bought some FMJ .38 specials from Lellier & Bellot last week down at Sportco in Fife and the local indoor gun range wouldn't let me use them, saying they had hardened cores or something they showed me with a magnet that attracted the bullet. He called it a penetrator. The range guy also said that a lot of that ammo wouldn't be good for the gun. I doubt 3 boxes will hurt though. That got me asking questions about the heavy ammo I want for mountain time.

Thx, Oldgun
Click to expand...
We should get in touch - I sent you a PM w/my Phone#.
 
badge 851:

Did you ever try the Federal 180 Hardcast? If so, why do you prefer the BB?
 
While those Buffalo Bore rounds are very good ammo I think those made by Double Tap are just as good but will cost you a lot less. Because they cost less you can afford to practice with them. The BB ammo will cost you $28/20 rounds while the DT ammo is only $40/50 rounds.

If you want some GREAT .357 Magnum ammo but the 180gr WFNGC ammo from Grizzly Cartridges. Even though it's more expensive than the DT ammo it's still cheaper than the BB ammo. I have shot this ammo and it's outstanding. I now buy those 180gr Gas Checked bullets from Cast Performance, their sister company, for handloading my own ammo.
 
Blue19 said:
badge 851:

Did you ever try the Federal 180 Hardcast? If so, why do you prefer the BB?
Click to expand...
Before Buffalo Bore® was available I used Federal® CastCore® Vital-Shok® 180gr ammo. The following illustrates why I now use Buffalo Bore®, it arrives faster, with more energy, at 100yds then Federal® does at the muzzle.

Buffalo Bore® 357 Magnum 180gr LFNGC (#19A/20)

Vel/Energy/Range
1400 783 Muzzle
1335 713 25yds
1275 650 50yds
1221 596 75yds
1172 549 100yds

Federal® CastCore® Vital-Shok® 180gr LFNGC (#P357J)

Vel/Energy/Range
1130 510 Muzzle
1092 477 25yds
1059 448 50yds
1030 424 75yds
1003 402 100yds

Double Tap 357Mag 180gr WFLGCH
Vel/Energy/Range
1300 676 Muzzle
 
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Id never trust my life against a grizzly with an all lead slug. Cougar maybe.grizzly..no way. If I HAD TO use a 357 Id pick a round such as the Federal premium with the 180 gr Swift...which is a jacketed HP.
 
badge 851 said:
Before Buffalo Bore® was available I used Federal® CastCore® Vital-Shok® 180gr ammo. The following illustrates why I now use Buffalo Bore®, it arrives faster, with more energy, at 100yds then Federal® does at the muzzle.

Buffalo Bore® 357 Magnum 180gr LFNGC (#19A/20)

Vel/Energy/Range
1400 783 Muzzle
1335 713 25yds
1275 650 50yds
1221 596 75yds
1172 549 100yds

Federal® CastCore® Vital-Shok® 180gr LFNGC (#P357J)

Vel/Energy/Range
1130 510 Muzzle
1092 477 25yds
1059 448 50yds
1030 424 75yds
1003 402 100yds

Double Tap 357Mag 180gr WFLGCH
Vel/Energy/Range
1300 676 Muzzle
Click to expand...
First, I have no stock or interest in Double Tap.

Just a slight addition because of an omission:
Vel/Energy/Barrel Length
1420 676 6" barrel
1300 557 @50 yards 4" barrel

When comparing both the BB and DT rounds from a 4" barrel the BB delivers 1375 fps and the DT delivers 1300 fps. That's not as much a difference as depicted by the original data post. As a matter of fact since that velocity from a 4" barrel is from 50 yards it's actually 25 fps faster than the BB ammo at the same distance.

Remember, I never said BB was bad ammo and didn't say DT was better ammo. I said they were both good but the DT was a lot cheaper.

Grizzly Cartridges:
Caliber: 357 MAG
Bullet Wt: 180 Grain WFNGC
Velocity: 1350 fps
Now the Grizzly Ammo is the best of the three IMO. It's rated @ 1350 fps so it's right in there with the other 2 and only slightly off the numbers provided by BB. Only 25 fps can be from differences in the revolvers used to do the test. That ammo is extremely accurate and will protect you well...
 
Last edited:
Sully said:
Id never trust my life against a grizzly with an all lead slug. Cougar maybe.grizzly..no way. If I HAD TO use a 357 Id pick a round such as the Federal premium with the 180 gr Swift...which is a jacketed HP.
Click to expand...

I wasnt going to go there, but since you brought it up I have to say that I 'completely' agree!

I've pretty thoroughly discussed my opinion of solid hard cast bullets vs. good hollow points (like the Swift A-Frame, Gold Dot, XTP... depending on caliber and application) in other threads so I wont rehash it here... but I've done a LOT of handgun hunting over the past 25 years and I even started off as a devout hard cast bullet guy and used 'em for years before switching to hollow points.

In short, I've seen better performance overall with plenty of penetration, quicker downs and kills, and I've always carefully examined wound tracks and typically see more damage and bleeding with HP's. And this is on most things that walk the lower 48 except brown bears and moose (because I've not hunted either with a handgun).

FWIW, YMMV.
 
Sully said:
Id never trust my life against a grizzly with an all lead slug. Cougar maybe.grizzly..no way. If I HAD TO use a 357 Id pick a round such as the Federal premium with the 180 gr Swift...which is a jacketed HP.
Click to expand...

Here's a different point of view (bullet usage on Cougar VS Grizzly). A HUGE Cougar might go 175 lbs or so -- at least in Montana. A Griz up here can easily top 600 lbs. I'd recommend a .357 Hollow Point for the cat (wouldn't even have to be a 180 -- lighter weight would be fine) but for shooting a Griz with a .357, we would need all the penetration we could get and then hope for the best. The nonexpanding, high Brinnell, heavy lead bullet gets the nod there.

PS If it were Black Bear we were talking about (I figure most up here are half the weight of an adult Griz) I'd go for the bonded Hollow Point in a heartbeat over a hard-cast bullet.
 
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When I got my 8⅜" M27-2 about 30 years ago, I hunted deer and hogs with Federal 158 grain JSP that clocked about 1500 fps (800 ft-lb). That was a good load for that class game. But if I was considering heavy game, I too would choose a good solid 180 grain at as high a velocity as the gun would tolerate. A 686 should handle a few hunting loads like that without much trouble, but I would personally choose the 27 (because I still have it).

Buck
 
Larry from Bend said:
Here's a different point of view (bullet usage on Cougar VS Grizzly). A HUGE Cougar might go 175 lbs or so -- at least in Montana. A Griz up here can easily top 600 lbs. I'd recommend a .357 Hollow Point for the cat (wouldn't even have to be a 180 -- lighter weight would be fine) but for shooting a Griz with a .357, we would need all the penetration we could get and then hope for the best. The nonexpanding, high Brinnell, heavy lead bullet gets the nod there.

PS If it were Black Bear we were talking about (I figure most up here are half the weight of an adult Griz) I'd go for the bonded Hollow Point in a heartbeat over a hard-cast bullet.
Click to expand...


Not ME partner. If all lead slugs were so great, regardless of their Brinnell, they would still be using them on heavy African game instead of SOLIDS. ( And those arent lead solids either) If I lived and traveled in that country Id hand load 180gr FMJ's loaded to the MAX for the extra zip.
 
Isn't a solid performing exactly the same way as a non-expanding hard cast lead bullet?
 
cp1969 said:
Isn't a solid performing exactly the same way as a non-expanding hard cast lead bullet?
Click to expand...

A "solid" is just as it indicated. SOLID. barely, rarely ever will deform ( has to hit a BIG bone to screw up the tip section)
Its their jacket that keeps them in one piece. Some are even just machined from barstock....about as hard as you can get ( and about twice the outrageous cost also...and I mean HIGH $$$)
 
Yeah, I know what a solid is. What I'm saying is that if the lead bullet doesn't expand, doesn't it perform just like one?
 
The 158 grain hollow points would be great for cats. Big bears would need more penetration and the 180 grain solids would likely be a better choice for them.
 
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