I have a titanium 38 Special j-frame that has a warning that lead bullets should not be fired because the lightness of the gun might cause the bullets in unfired rounds to work loose and tie up the gun. +P is OK .

I also have a Model 38 no dash j-frame with an alloy frame and a stainless steel cylinder. I called S&W to ask if it was OK to shoot lead bullets and was told it was OK but not to shoot +P ammo. I thought I had read on this blog that any modern S&W revolver with a model # was safe for modern +P. I was thinking of carrying it with 158 grain +P lead hollow points. What do you all think about +P in this gun.

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I like Ike.

+P in the titanium all the time might not be good. Shoout the heck out of 38 spl. and carry it with +P. I've shot +P in my J airweight and it still has all its parts. Hundreds of rounds might hurt it. ???????

S&W has been bought out several times in the past decades, so why would the current owners want to warranty any guns they had no hand in making against even the rarest of situations.

Thus, their lawyers told 'em to recommend against +P ammo in the vintage J frames . . . even though standard .38 Spl. ammo of the times was loaded to what is now +P velocities. PLUS . . . how could S&W know the condition of each and every little revolver they made 40+ years ago.

They are thus off the hook, and the owner is thus responsible for shooting guns that are in good condition, as it should be! However . . . if your vintage J frame is in good shape, I don't see why you would have ANY trouble shooting +P stuff in them.

Heck, my wife and I both have Model 37 Airweights from 1971 as our "always" CCW guns . . . and we shoot 'em in ours with no concerns.

However, I'm not that big on thinking +P is needed from a .38 Spl., plus I like to make my guns and my arm last longer by shooting lighter stuff in practice sessions. Always have, regardless of caliber.

There are two different issues getting mixed up here ...

The first issue is whether the gun(s) in question will be damaged, or suffer inordinate "wear and tear" from +P or other stout ammo.

The second issue is whether or not heavy-recoiling ammo in lightweight guns may cause "lockup", from "setback", i.e., when the comparatively heavy bullet stays in its place when the light gun backs away from it in recoil, essentially lengthening the cartridge so that the bullet hangs up on the barrel, preventing the cylinder from coming into battery.

The second issue is your first and most important issue --- a "locked up" non-functional gun may get you killed. (It will certainly elicit the most profane of your vocabulary, under any circumstances)

An abused, worn out gun may cost you a bunch of money to fix, or, might break at an inopportune time, and maybe injure you or others, and also maybe get you killed, because it didn't work, on demand.

Pushing the design limits for the gun and ammo combinations is pushing your luck, in either case.

Thanks all.

I think I'm going to stick with standard ammo. These guns with alloy frames and stainless steel frames were originally sold to a Michigan police supplier. Has holster wear but shoots great.

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I like Ike.

The rule on that was that STEEL - framed guns with model numbers are supposed to be okay with Plus P.

We have had a number of complaints here from men whose Model 37s, etc. have cracked the frame around the barrel.

Some get away with it, but I wouldn't shoot any alloy-framed .38 with Plus P unless that specific model is warranted for it.

I don't use Plus P Plus at all. I've read that it wears .357 guns even more than Magnum ammo does. It was meant to be used in .357's, but let cops claim that they issued .38 Special ammo, for PR reasons, where some "communities" were objecting to police use of Magnum guns.

There is no reason at all for a civilian to use Plus P Plus. It just wears guns out too soon. If you need that level of performance, use .357 ammo, unless some local law forbids it.

T-Star

Am I correct that the no lead bullets in light weight guns stems from the fact that the lead bullet's lube will allow the bullets to jump easier than the no lube copper jacket ammo? I'm just guessing but it sounds right. But then some of the extreme light weight models also say use only ammo with 110 grain or larger bullets? Is there not enough surface contact from the bullet to the brass then???

I own a Model 38 no dash flat latch and load it with Federal Nyclad 125 grain standard pressure. It was manuf. in 1962 and still shoots great, but an extended range session (100 rounds standard pressure) will loosen the side plate and flat latch screws about 1/8 of a turn. FWIW I would never shoot +P out of something that old.

Thanks for moving this thread. Lot of good information on this site.

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I like Ike.

FWIW, and IMHO, you cannot do better than the Federal Nyclad standard pressure ammo for SD.