Anyone else see Ruger's new ammunition line?

[novalty]

Got an email notification from them a couple days ago. Looks like they are introducing their own line of defense ammo, manufactured by PolyCase. Looks like an interesting design.
[IMG]http://www****ger.com/micros/ammo/img/top.jpg[/IMG]

Ruger® Ammunition

[Shark Bait]

Looks like a frangible bullet, but the site doesn't say it is. It seems like a gimmick to me. The spin of the bullet is supposed to impart more hydraulic displacement to the target due to it's design. At the advertised velocity, how many times will it spin as it passes through the target? I'll be interested in seeing data.

[Collo Rosso]

Looks like it fits those special screw heads they put bathroom stalls together with.

[elpac3]

Did some fuzzy math.

If one assumes the standard rate of twist for a .45 ACP to be 1:16 and if you assume a anterior - posterior measurement of a 215 pound guy, top of belly to be 12", you would get about 3/4 revolution inside the target.

For that same bullet traveling about 830 FPS, you would have a rate of spin of 622 revolutions per second.

Looks like a gimic to me but some people will buy whatever someone tells them is new and improved.

I'll stick with the old Keith bullet - thank you very much.

[Nevada Ed]

So what would that shape of tip do when it hits a bone?

Turn sideways ?

I would like to see some hard test before buying it.

[novalty]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

So what would that shape of tip do when it hits a bone?

Turn sideways ?

I would like to see some hard test before buying it.

Bones??? Aren't people made of gelatin?

[Arik]

Looks a lot like Lehigh Defense


Which has a good rep for penetration and expenssion

[Rule3]

I am sorry Novalty this is a ammo thread and not reloading. You can not buy the MAGIC BULLETS to reload.

Some barrels twist right, some twist left what happens then?

Will it twist backwards if below the equator?

Here is all the MAGIC. It ranks right up there with Zombie AMMO

A Marketing hype to take your money.

Home | Polycase Ammunition

I prefer the RIP HYPED MAGIC

Warning DECLASSIFIED INFO, FYEO!!

G2 Research

[PatriotX]

Those remind me of the old 'pin grabber' bullets.

[rwsmith]

I saw an article/ad on the bullets just about a month or so ago. They are supposed to increase hydrostatic pressure by some mechanism of fluid mechanics that I didn't try to decipher. I'd like to hear a LOT about other tests and 'real world' experience, if any, before I try something like that. I don't have faith that that can make a real difference in terminal effects.

Honestly, it looks like a water turbine pump.

I'm surprised that a company that isn't known for ammo would take this up, but I suppose if you want to sell, you need a gimmick.

[ageingstudent]

It makes me wonder about feed issues. I also wonder what a die company would say if you sent one of those projectiles in and asked for a custom seater plug.

[scattershot]

The old saying comes to mind, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

[RV4driver]

I shot some of this stuff yesterday. I was function testing my recently returned BG380. The gun went in again for FTF's. It FTF'd with every round of this stuff. Hard primers, apparently, but then all the other brands FTF'd also, just not as regularly. Except the Hornady, every one of them fired, first strike. The bullet is a mix of copper powder and polymer, as I understand it. Frangible to be sure. Effective? Who knows, I just wanted to try as many different types of ammo as possible to check the gun. The store where I got the stuff had both the original maker in stock, as well as the Ruger branded. The original was 24.99, and the Ruger, same stuff, was 17.99. Guess which one I got?

[Duckford]

Looks gimmicky, and how is it going to perform any better than a standard semi or full wad cutter? Big fat flat nosed bullets also create some hydrostatic disruption by creating resistance, if there is some real advantage of these over the former, I would really, really like to see it. If we could keep this related to reloading, let's say they do sell these to the average reloader; are these going to perform well enough at cost to displace expensive hollow points in terms of performance? More importantly, for those in the market for a non expanding, high terminal performance bullet, can they sell these cheap enough to compete with the commercial bullet casters and swagers who can produce wadcutters by the truckload for a fraction of the price? An experienced caster may even choose to make his own non expanding bullets, another point they have to compete with. Prices will have to be cheap, and the bullet prove itself valuable to break in.

I've watched a few videos on this new concept, they seem to have had some "help" in their interpretation of the results. As far as I've seen, they make a great deal about a permanent tear cavity in the shallower end of the gel blocks, but this phenomena can be seen in other bullets, and how it transfers to the real world, in terms of real effect, or if it occurs within actual flesh shot, is in question. It may not increase effectiveness at all, and may be something they are purposely making the molehill into a mountain about.

I'll reserve judgement, like I always do, until more data comes in. However, I'm leaning towards the camp of "how is this better/cheaper than traditional full point bullets" crowd, as of now.

[Bat Guano]

Reminds me of the magic beans I have in a drawer around here someplace.

[HCH]

I took a SLR photography course 40 odd years ago in school. Some kids were fortunate to have Nikons. They also had Nikon lens tissue, Nikon cleaning brush, Nikon tripod, and Nikon filters. I think some even bought Nikon toilet paper.

So there's Colt ammo, Sig ammo, and now, Ruger ammo. Brand loyalty is a great marketing concept.

[RV4driver]

Isn't that "Colt" ammo made in Russia?

[RV4driver]

Apparently the Hunting and Defense stuff is by Black Hills, and the other is by Baurnal/Silver Bear.

[joeintexas]

When I was a teenager I took a .22lr and my old trusty pocket knife and carved it up a bit trying to make a super deadly rabbit bullet. It looked similar to this beast when I was done with it. Sorry I don't recall how it performed, don't recall if I ever did it again so my guess is it wasn't all that great. I do think Ruger makes a fine handgun but this bullet looks like the end of an abused drill pipe. I'll probably pass.

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

It's just the Polycase ARX ammo in a Ruger labeled box. It would be neat if it was headstamped RUGER, but that's about it.

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Originally Posted by RV4driver

Isn't that "Colt" ammo made in Russia?

The new COLT DEFENDER SCHP ammo is supposedly going to be or is made in the U.S.

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Originally Posted by Arik

Looks a lot like Lehigh Defense


Which has a good rep for penetration and expenssion

Penetration yes (read: Excessive penetration). Expansion, no. It's a solid bullet, not a HP.

[CoMF]

Originally Posted by CTG_COLLECTOR

Penetration yes (read: Excessive penetration). Expansion, no. It's a solid bullet, not a HP.

I think he meant "expense-sion." As in, increased terminal effectiveness against your wallet.

[V0OBWxZS16]

It's not new and it doesn't work.
The Devel small arms bullet was filed with the USPTO in February 1991.
"We did test the Devel--nothing special or magical." Dr. Roberts



I attempted to estimate the rotational energy of the bullets and came up with less than 0.5 foot-pounds for their .380, 9, .40 and .45. I'm not sure I did it correctly though. If I did then the rotational energy is negligible relative to the kinetic energy.

[Ramikrav]

Ruger® Ammunition

The projectile is also light for caliber. As in, way below what you'd find in "normal light".

74gr 9x19 ?

56gr .380acp ?

107gr. .40s&w ?

118gr. .45acp !!!!!???? -BLASPHEMY- (hehe lol)

Pass.

ETA- you want, no you NEED, mass and sectional density. Now, you can go light, but there's a limit. This is because lighter bullets tend to deflect off bone in terminal ballistics, to not track straight, etc.

I'm guessing bullets THIS light for caliber would have trouble tracking straight even in bare gel.

These weights are just way beyond TOO light, IMHO.

Also, all that whizz bang velocity gained by decreasing weight and the numbers on paper ain't nothing but a straight gimmick- all that velocity and energy will bleed off much faster resulting in less momentum retained at range and in terminal events.

This is because you need mass to maintain momentum.

Again- these bullets are just way, way, WAY too light.(IMHO).

Goofy looking toilet screw bullets that look good on paper and in glossy adds.

Again.

Pass.

IMHO- you'd be better off with FMJ in standard weight config per caliber then this junk. Better yet, stick to proven HP designs that expand and penetrate properly for defensive purposes, and skip all the silly.

Whatever is going on in the ammo industry to provoke a company like Ruger to market this sort of snake oil as defensive ammo should just stop.

Its bordering on negligent.

[V0OBWxZS16]

Originally Posted by Ramikrav

I'm guessing bullets THIS light for caliber would have trouble tracking straight even in bare gel.

You're correct. Polycase's own Youtube channel shows exactly that.

Whatever is going on in the ammo industry to provoke a company like Ruger to market this sort of snake oil as defensive ammo should just stop.

Seems more like a problem at Ruger to me.

Its bordering on negligent.

Bordering?

[Ramikrav]

There seems to be far too many of these sorts of gimmick loads out there these days. and while I draw the line at calling ammo intentionally designed to reduce penetration for specialty circumstances and for training like frangible ammo used in shoot houses or whatever, "gimmiky", there are certainly some real "winners" out there.

The RIP ammo with the "trochars" or whatever (you seen that stuff?) is my favorite one to mock. The entire -knowledgeable- shooting community knows that for the most part, what you want is a projectile that retains its mass in order to ensure adequate straight line penetration in defensive handgunnery. This is because adequate penetration to reach vitals is the second rule, after shot placement.

Everyone who's ever read anything written by actual experts knows this.
You don't even have to be an expert. You just have to READ.

But just to separate fools from their money in a NEGLIGENT fashion, someone has to go market stuff that directly sheds projectile weight intentionally, with outlandish claims of the silly things increased lethality.

Talk about ridiculous.

And then there is this stuff.

If shot placement is numero uno regarding defensive handgunnery, and penetration is secondary only to that, SABOTAGING straight line penetration is effectively going to sabotage shot placement. UNDERCUTTING depth of penetration and/or straight line penetration with super ultra light for caliber projectiles is BS.

It would be one thing if this was being marketed as some sort of range or training ammo, but its being specifically marketed as defensive ammo.

AND THEN we have the issues of feed reliability. All those crazy angles increase the chances of a hang up in any part of the feed cycle of a semiautomatic.

I'd rather load up with ball.


Ruger should be ashamed.

[cmj8591]

Originally Posted by Duckford

I've watched a few videos on this new concept, they seem to have had some "help" in their interpretation of the results. As far as I've seen, they make a great deal about a permanent tear cavity in the shallower end of the gel blocks, but this phenomena can be seen in other bullets, and how it transfers to the real world, in terms of real effect, or if it occurs within actual flesh shot, is in question. It may not increase effectiveness at all, and may be something they are purposely making the molehill into a mountain about.

I'll reserve judgement, like I always do, until more data comes in. However, I'm leaning towards the camp of "how is this better/cheaper than traditional full point bullets" crowd, as of now.

I think you're going to have a long wait for real world results with this stuff. Anyone operating in the "real world" who depends on a hand gun for protection and has half a clue is going to see right through this nonsense.

[martybee]

I just finished reading the article in the Dec. issue of Guns & Ammo that pertains to the Polycase ARX Injection Molded bullets,
secured in a polymer case and soon to be available for marketing. They seem to think this round will be reliable in most pistols
and comparable to the terminal ballistics of most 9mm ammunition!
Plastic Guns....So why not Plastic Ammunition?

mb

[V0OBWxZS16]

American Rifleman gave it a good review in the latest issue too.

Polymer cases with a metal base, like a shotgun shell, have been done before. A buddy had some Natec 5.56mm and it wasn't that great. I'd like to see it work this time, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[CH4]

Originally Posted by scattershot

The old saying comes to mind, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I always wanted to know how the fool got his money in the first place.

[chaparrito]

Snake Oil. "a sucker born every minute"

[Horn]

Originally Posted by Arik

Looks a lot like Lehigh Defense


Which has a good rep for penetration and expenssion

The Lehigh shown doesn't expand. But some reviews speak well of its penetration___ in that cloth and jell. I'd like to see some street shots.
Their 380 with this bullet had near 9mm penetration. Again, real people aren't made out of jell but unless someone can afford hunks of beef? (Bone in)
Stay Safe

[chud333]

If they package it in a slick box with neat graphics
and give it either a "tactical", or "Zombie" name
there are people that will buy it.
I'll stick with my Fed. Hydro shocks.

Chuck

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Thank. But I'll stick with my Hydrashoks or Golddots.

[Vulcan Bob]

Ok, I try not to be a gun or ammo snob but this I just cannot resist. Looks like Mall Ninja or Gun Shop Commando fodder to me.