Why does 147 gr 9mm have a bad rep?

Cal44 · Jul 5, 2015

I have an LCR 9mm revolver and I've been using 147 gr FMJ practice ammo in it.

Works well, is accurate, moderate recoil.

My thought was that since I tend to like heavier ammo like 158 gr in 38/357, I'd go with the heavier 9mm ammo in the LCR.

But now I've read several times that 147 gr 9mm has a terrible record "on the street" as an LE/SD round.

Why is this? Doesn't seem logical.

Is it just an example of Internet rumor BS.

I also have an LC9 pistol and would perhaps use the same ammo there.

murphydog · Jul 5, 2015

The first generation 147 gr 9 mm loads did perform poorly; by report the newest generation works fine. I think this pertains to expanding bullet rounds, so if you like this weight for practice I don't see any problem.

nyeti · Jul 5, 2015

Because people writing in gun magazines, and many spreading rumors don't know what they are talking about. I have had access to hundreds of shooting reports with 9 mm 147gr. Subsonic and done first hand investigations and been present at both shootings and autopsies with it....know what is in my daily carry gun.......147gr. federal HST.

armorer951 · Jul 5, 2015

Depends, as always, on the design of the projectile itself. In the 9mm caliber, both the Speer 147gr Gold Dots and the Federal 147gr HST rounds all seem to perform well in controlled testing.

https://youtu.be/PNRqrJRq4T0

hoc9sw · Jul 5, 2015

No issues for my Shield 9 or VP9 with 147g (I've used only Speer gold dot LE only version in 147g), but they are heavy for me. I prefer 124g.

On the other hand, supposed issues with 147g are news to me. Had none, have none.

Charlie Foxtrott · Jul 5, 2015

This is easy.

There are always any number of knuckleheads out there that will bash something. In an effort to make themselves appear to be knowledgeable about something that they really have no knowledge of.

Heavy for caliber bullets are generally always a good option. Make your own observations. There is a reason why Jethro down at the gun store is Jethro down at the gun store. Because that is about as far as his brain power will allow him to go in life

pharmer · Jul 5, 2015

Gun writers know everything. They "know" that .38 spl +p in a 158 gr hp loading moving at 850 fps is Thor's hammer while 147 gr 9mm jhp moving at 900+ fps is puny and will bounce off a t-shirt. Joe

jupiter1 · Jul 6, 2015

In the gun magazine world, a round that produces a lot of expansion = good, even if the criminal isn't stopped and a round that produces a little expansion = bad, even if the crimnal drops dead on the spot.

My guess is that the 147 gr 9mm "terrible record on the street" had more to do with bullets that didn't meet the 'classic mushroom' test rather than the actual effect on the target.

Whitwabit · Jul 6, 2015

Just did some testing on the 9mm Winchester train and defend in 9mm 147 gr. shot thru 4 layers of denim into filled milk jugs filled with water. They expanded to average of .529 .. with largest being .548 and smallest at .512. That was a 5 shot average !! YouTube has some views of test performed in ballistic jell and these perform very well !! Other brands do quite well also in that weight.

I carry it in my 9mm Beretta PX4 SC and like the Train and Defend ammo as your shooting with the same load you carry for SD. Also I seem to be able to get my next shot off quicker with the reduced recoil of the 147 gr bullet over the 115 or 124 gr bullet.

Just bought the same round in .40S&W in 180 gr they expanded out to .747 average .. smallest being .732 largest .765 .. That was shot through my MP40c. ..

Haven't found any in 165 gr for the 40S&W and will test it when I do to see how it performs .. Used up all my saved milk jugs too ..

wrhk33 · Jul 6, 2015

I think a lot of the bad rep has to do with older ammo. I first started to buy 147 gr hollow points around 1989. Back then the bullets were not as developed when it came to expansion with the slow 9mm. I think the current hollow points expand much better at the slower speeds. I like the 124gr myself unless the target is extremely thick.

Steve C · Jul 6, 2015

All 9mm JHP's are quite good regardless of bullet weight. If you compare Marshal/Sanow data for the 9mm standard velocity jhp's the 147gr are only marginally less effective than some of the lighter JHP bullets and superior to most or equivalent to some .38 spl +P loadings. 9 mm Stopping Power.

There are lots of tests on YouTube with 147gr JHP 9mm with some that use the FBI gelatin test protocols which show the newer 147gr JHP's are as effective as any other loads. Providing deep penetration and good expansion.

Fishinfool · Jul 6, 2015

I am old enough to have been around, and seen the street results of the first generation of 147 grain HP 9mm ammo. It was not impressive, no better than a FMJ really. The lighter weight HP 9mm slugs had a better track record due to expansion. Contrary to what some believe, bullet expansion is an important component in stopping power, not just penetration alone. Ask any big game hunter which kills (IE STOPS) quicker, a FMJ or expanding bullet.

That said, the newer designed 147, like the Gold Dot and HST, have earned a good reputation for stopping power due to their reliable expansion. Old habits die hard, and I still like a good 124 grain HP in a +P loading in the 9mm. For practice and range use, any bullet is fine as long as it shoots to your sights, is fairly accurate, and feeds reliably in your gun.

Larry

Yorkie Man · Jul 6, 2015

I use them now in my pocket 9mm because they have improved quite a bit since we carried them in 1990. We had the Winchester 147 JHP subsonic which had crimped primers and were designed for the military for use in their sub machine guns. I had quite a few of them fail to cycle the slide on the Glock 19. I have chronographed the WW white box 147's and they are right at 1000 fps. You can duplicate this load with Longshot.

StrawHat · Jul 6, 2015

Fishinfool said:
... Ask any big game hunter which kills (IE STOPS) quicker, a FMJ or expanding bullet ... Larry

Not sure if it helps you but when I hunt, I prefer bullets that give me complete penetration, from any angle. So do many of my acquaintances. Professional hunters in Africa use solids for dangerous game. Many use them for everything as it makes it simple to regulate the sights.

Kevin

martybee · Jul 6, 2015

pharmer said:
Gun writers know everything. They "know" that .38 spl +p in a 158 gr hp loading moving at 850 fps is Thor's hammer while 147 gr 9mm jhp moving at 900+ fps is puny and will bounce off a t-shirt. Joe

Jethro, down at the gun store also agrees with this quote.

mb

wbraswell · Jul 6, 2015

I know I wouldn't want anyone to shoot me with one.

Nevada Ed · Jul 6, 2015

Any load can fail if not used correctly !!

A perfectly good 124 or 125gr Gold Dot can fail if it does not have enough fps.

A bullet can mushroom to 2x its diameter and fail to penetrate enough.

There are several 147gr SD loads out there that work but getting them is the HARD part.

sophie · Jul 6, 2015

I shoot the Hornady 147 gr XTP's in factory rounds and in my reloads and don't have any problems . I also shoot the 124 gr XTP's and 115 gr JHP's and 115 gr FMJ in my pistols from the PM9, 9c, 6906, CZ 75 SP01 and don't have any problems.

I guess I got off the subject of why the 9mm 147 gr JHP gets a bad rap from some. I believe the bullets have been improved in the last few years.

CTG_COLLECTOR · Jul 6, 2015

What started it was the 1986 FBI Miami incident. After the smoke had cleared the FBI thoroughly damned the 9mm 115STHP as being the reason why their agents got killed and shot up.

After the FBI held their symposium to pick their ammo, the FBI decided to issue the Winchester Olin Super Match 147JHP Subsonic Type-L ammo to their agents. Other agencies jumped onto the "Me Too" Band Wagon and started using the same ammo with very unimpressive results in real life.

The Win OSM Type-L bullet & loading was never designed for use out of handguns, and the first generation 147 loads from Federal and Remington didn't do any better.

That was the start of the "bad rap" for the 9mm 147JHP loads.

V0OBWxZS16 · Jul 6, 2015

Steve C said:
All 9mm JHP's are quite good regardless of bullet weight. If you compare Marshal/Sanow data for the 9mm standard velocity jhp's the 147gr are only marginally less effective than some of the lighter JHP bullets and superior to most or equivalent to some .38 spl +P loadings. 9 mm Stopping Power.

Why does 147 gr 9mm have a bad rep?

Member

Moderator

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads