Hi guys. Im still new here so I hope I'm posting this in the correct spot. I'm going to be doing some hiking/camping in the timber this fall/winter and need opinions on my ammo selection. I don't have the funds to make a new firearm purchase right now so I narrowed it down to 66-2, 29-2, and Glock 22 and then finally decided 29-2. Now I just need to know if you guys think I should go with Hollow Point for expansion and eternal destruction or should I go with Full Metal Jacket for penetration?

Any response is much appreciated!
Also, if you are opposed to my choice of firearm, please tell me. And tell me why so I can better my chance of survival! Thanks!

I'd carry the M-66 with 158 grain JHP or JSP ammo or the .44 with 240 grain JSP. Actually, many HP rounds would probably work on cougar/mountain lion/puma. They aren't as heavily constructed as a bear.

I once published an article on this matter in a gun magazine. I concluded that a .357 is usually a fine choice.

Pro hunters and trappers may use a .22 or .22 Magnum, but they have the cat in a trap or up a tree, with hounds below.

Go to a zoo or natural history museum and study those cats from an anatomical standpoint. Watch how live ones move and how fast. Imagine a sight picture on the cat and think where you'd shoot. Learn where to shoot animals in an attacking mode. Bullet placement is VITAL.

BTW, I know of a game warden who killed a grizzly bear with an M-66 and 158 grain loads, but do not know his exact ammo brand. The bear had him down and the lethal hit was to the bear 's heart.

44 mag is a very good choice for defense from bigger predators like mountain lions. Any traditional hollow point or soft point bullet will do just fine for stopping power on an animal that size. Just choose the one that shoots the best out of your gun. You will be well armed IMO

With what I own it would either be my Model 65 3in or my Model 19 4in RB with 158 JSP ammo.

Mountain lions aren't particularly massive animals. Most aren't heavier than a large man. They are well muscled. But keep in mind the experience of professional guides. They tell you the lions aren't hard to kill. I'm leaning toward the Glock just because it seems better for follow up shots. If you're a great shot and can react to an animal you may not even see, go for it with the big magnum. But it might be good to practice with the guns you're considering and the ammo. Choose the one you do best with. If a 22 will do the job, so can any of the guns you've listed.

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Dick Burg

I would be inclined to carry hard cast bullets over FMJ. Bronze jackets are pretty thin, over soft lead, and deform easily. Buffalo Bore comes to mind. Mountain lions aren't particularly large, so perhaps SD ammo like Hornady Critical Duty would give a good combination of penetration v expansion.

This is all moot against an animal which is practically invisible and will attack from the rear. You might consider attaching plastic eyes from a craft shop to the back of your hat or jacket. Farmers in India use that to discourage tigers, and a lot of small critters invoke a similar defense with eyespots as protective coloration.

I'd use a heavy hard cast 300+ GR bullet in case you encounter something bigger you'll be totally prepared.

If a mountain lion is the absolute biggest thing you'll encounter you'll want to pick something you shoot well and doesn't recoil excessively would be wise. The 300 gr Hornady JHP/XTP is a good bullet too and many people load them.

Is a big cat any tougher than a human?

Seems like a 357 magnum, or a 40 s&w, or 45 cal would suffice.

No, but you have to shoot it 9 times.

I don't think you'll be attacked by a mountain lion.

Cats are fairly thin skinned so a 357 with any defensive ammo should work just fine. Of course the chance of you seeing the cat before he clamps down on your head is slim to none. It has been my experience, 3 cats, that when directly confronted they really don't want to have a lot to do with humans unless they are toddler to very small adult size. Depending on the time of year when I go into the woods I carry a 25-5, a 10mm or a 12 gauge with Breneeke slugs. And I always have a small game and cougar tag with me because you just never know. Calling predators may bring in more than just the 'yotes.

bob

I was originally going to go with my glock 40s&w for the same reason you said, follow up shots. I can fit 15 rounds in it. But I decided against it because my wife will be staying at home while I'm out and that is what she prefers for home defense. She is very efficient with that glock!

I agree, but in the unfortunate event that I was, I want to live to tell the story!

In about 1947 my Grandmother was hanging laundry outside in Westmoreland CA. in the Imperial Valley, Imperial County, CA. A mountain lion wandered on the property and she killed it with a Remington .22 rifle.

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A Snider squibbed n the Jungle

If you are going to use a Model 29 I would suggest 44 special hollow points.

Magnums are not really a good choice for a Mountain Lion in my opinion.

BTW the Mountain Lion will get you from behind on your neck if it does get you.

Either should be fine with hollow points or FMJ. Study the habits of mountain lions. They normally don't lay in wait. They normally stalk you from behind. Pay attention. Watch your six.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Most attacks on humans are from juvenile cats because they are inexperienced hunters, and, being cats, they are curious. Most mountain lions will not attack an adult human male unless the cat is desperately weakened by illness or injury.

This summer in Colorado, a woman attacked a mountain lion in her backyard with only her bare hands in order to pry her 5-year-old son out of its jaws. Both the woman and the child got pretty scratched up, but they retained no permanently disabling physical injuries. The point is, determination and unwavering resolve will serve you far better than any hog leg. Carry what is easy to tote, and load it with a round that you can shoot well to point of aim. If you make sure you have your mind right, the rest will take care of itself.

I just reach out & grab 'em.............................like The Donald. Ha!!

It's a mountain lion, not a lion. Houndsmen shoot them with .22 magnums and such to not ruin the pelt. That doesn't mean that would be a good choice for a defensive caliber, but cougars are thin-skinned, don't have thick skulls like bears and are not tough to kill. Anything that will kill a dog will kill a cougar. Loading up with a .44 magnum and hardcast bullets is significant overkill and may actually be counterproductive; cougars move fast, and fast, accurate follow-up shots (because you missed the first time) from a medium caliber may be more helpful than some heavy-recoil hand cannon. As has already been mentioned, people successfully fight cougars off with brooms, shovels and even bare hands.

Cougars are related to the small cat families, and from what I've read share some common traits with them.

Cats know instinctively that any serious injury can be fatal even if they aren't killed immediately. (Infection)

So they seek prey significantly smaller and weaker -- rabbits, various small rodents, up thru small deer.

Adult humans are too big and dangerous to be easy meals -- unless the cat is desperate or rabid. Instincts developed over the last 20,000 years indicate attacking humans doesn't end well.

There have been some really good replies here. I've known of cross country skiers having "eyes" painted or such on the back of their headgear. As mentioned mountain lions will stalk from behind. Most of the time they don't attack but some people do believe the "eyes" on the back of their headgear convinces a mountain lion it's being observed.
I guess we'll have to wait, eh? To see if it really works.
Poli Viejo

Practice and Shoot big. I use to carry a S&W 357 mag, now I carry a S&W 629 4" or 5". Big cats are crafty and stealth. Be very careful. Be watchful at all times. I load up with 300gr hard cast Hammerheads. Shoot all six rounds and reload.

A Mountain Lion is not a thick skinned hard to kill animal. I would be carrying a gun I can shoot quickly and accurately like the M66 you asked about. The M29 is way overkill and you might be sorry carrying something so heavy hiking all day.

Just a note, if you are attacked by a Cougar you probably won't see it coming, they attack from behind and will bit the back if your neck if it gets the chance. 158gr JSP .357 Magnum ammo should be just fine for an animal that rarely exceed 150lb.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Thanks for all the replies! I think I'm going to go with my M66-2 357mag and I'm going to go pick ip some Hornady SD JHP. If I come across a cougar in the woods, it's guna be close quarters and very fast pace/high stress.

as a young man i read several articles written by Bob Milek. He wrote a article about hunting mountain lions, using dogs to tree the lion then shooting the lions in the tree. His favored weapon for this work was a 4" k frame 22 magnum......Mike

For a mountain lion attack , I prefer a pair of nike size 8 1/2 and a much slower friend to be with me, also works for bear and rattle snakes.

I carry hard cast bullets in that gun, but i think any of the above mentioned ammo is fine. I'd also recommend critical duty, if you want a HP, as it has good barrier penetration and you may have to shoot thru something. The big issue you have is actually seeing the animal in time. Cats are superior ambush hunter, and they like to hunt from above. Their prey very rarely has a clue until death comes from above. Watch yourself when under overhangs, steep hill sides, under large trees, or anywhere else that the animal can hide and pounce. Daytime is never a real issue, provided your not a tiny man out by yourself, but be extra careful at night.

The Model 29 was a good choice, if it is mountain lion only you may want to consider a good .44 special load, it would be plenty for mountain lion. Like some one said previously if you are attacked by one it will be from behind and you'll probably never know it's coming, if that's the case it is probably too late to get you gun into action anyway. If black bear are an issue too the .44 Special may still be a good choice. In all cases, stay alert but don't be paranoid.

The local Cheyenne Mountain Zoo has a mountain lion exhibit in which you basically walk through a glass ceiling (for lack of a better description) to see the mountain lions.

The ones at the exhibit happened to be lounging on the glass and in front and above me. Perhaps these were very well fed and healthy. They were very large and conveyed the word "lion" very well. As I live in the foothills, have young children, mountain lion tracks on my property, and sightings in the neighborhood; this certainly gave me a new thing to worry about.

There is nothing pleasant about a mountain lion attack and in most cases they attack from behind. Bear behavior is NOT puma behavior. So pack the biggest and baddest gun you can carry or the best 22 that you can hit with. Either way, carry something like one of these on your belt - larger, actually - if you have a cougar on you shooting it might not work as well:


http://smith-wessonforum.com/members...ms-blades.html

just bang two sticks together (saw in a Disney movie)

My son has seen a cougar on his property and found tracks. He carries, usually, a 9mm auto, sometimes a .45.

I think he'll cope with a cougar, if need be. But I think a .357 allows a little added power and penetration that may be useful. My M-66-3 or GP-100 would probably be loaded with 158 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks.

The most compact gun I'd carry in this role is Ruger's SP-101 .357 with three-inch barrel. But a .38 Special with three-inch bbl. with a lead HP load might well suffice.

Because the OP doesn't reload, I'm not sure why someone has recommended a .44 Special. Which FACTORY ammo do they feel is best for this? We badly need good .44 Spcl. ammo, but the factories will probably never make it. The strength issue with old Triple Lock .44's and the lack of popularity combine to make the cartridge a dislked stepchild among ammo makers.

Buffalo Bore and Double Tap, among others, load a good
240 gr. hard cast SWC in .44 Special

Mountain lion are lightly constructed animals. It's rare to see one over 125 pounds.

Virtually any centerfire handgun you can deploy with speed and quickly hit with accuracy is plenty.

I carry a Colt 1911 45acp when I'm out and about in the Colorado mountains. Pleasant to carry, quick to draw and hit with for me.

As always, I use 200gr hard cast swc handloaded to about 1,000 fps: much lower velocity would work just fine for mountain lion.

I would carry whatever handgun you could quickly engage the mountain lion with while he is on your back because if you need to shoot one, that is where he'll probably be. Seriously, they don't charge you like a bear, they will stalk you and get you from behind, usually at night or in low light conditions. Mountain Lion hunting was banned in CA I believe in 1979, there are a bunch of them in the state, usually people only capture pictures of them on game cameras or surveillance cameras at night. They even come into residential areas for fast food (cats and dogs in backyards) A year or two ago I was reading the local paper, someone called 911 to report a bobcat up a tree in their backyard, they even took a picture of it which the newspaper printed, it turns out it was lion not a bobcat, and it was less then two miles from my place so we don't let our cat out at night anymore.

Urban coyotes and bobcats are also a threat to pets and kids.

They're on the news quite a bit here in big cities as well as in suburbs. I saw one right next to Highland Park in the Dallas area. For those who don't know, that's like finding a coyote in Beverly Hills.

Cats are not very hard to stop. I wouldn't use a magnum because it would be possible to zip right on through. I'd go for expansion over penetration. My choice (If bear or moose aren't a factor), would be the Glock with 180 grainers.

A friend living here in the suburbs of Sacramento had a big (150lbs he guessed) mtn lion run across the street in front of him.

He almost was able to stop, but hit the lion a glancing blow on the hind quarters.

No blood noticed and the lion turned and snarled at him and then ran off.

Lots of schools with kids walking back and forth every day around here.

I understand if you pet a cougar it will purr just like a pet cat -- right up until it bites your arm off.

Nice kitty.

Any good quality lead or jacketed hollowpoint or semiwadcutter round in your .357 will do the job well on a mountain lion. The biggest issue is that you will very, very likely be shooting at a very moving target! Landing a bullet or two where it needs to hit will be your biggest challenge, especially if you do not see the animal in time to be ready to shoot before it can touch you! That is, of course, if it is attacking you. That doesn't happen often, and it happens less often that you will see the animal if it is not attacking you. They will, however, follow and stalk you on occasion, but again, you really have to be watching carefully to ever know that!

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So long ... Ken

The problem lies in the fact that the lion doesn't come at you like a wolf or a bear. 99% of the time it will stalk and ambush you from behind and be on you before you ever knew it was there. At the close range you'll be dealing with it ,if you ever got a chance before you're dead, any handgun of at least the 9mm class with the best defense loads available will do the trick. Before everyone says the 9mm aint big enough remember that a 124 gr 9mm Hornady critical defense load penetrates over 12" and expands to about .73" in diameter. I'd pack my Glock 19 filled with those bullets. Who wants to pack a big heavy .44mag that only carries 6 rounds when the Mod 19 holds over twice as many and weighs next to nothing on your hip?

When out and about in the tall & un-cut......I jest carry the same ol same ol,

a 44 Special, 240gr hard cast Keith SWC over a dollop 2400 for everythin

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I second that. Or a .38 spl with some +p 135 grain Gold Dots, easy to shoot and light to pack. Like the others have already said the hard part ain't stopping the cat when you hit him it's hitting him to stop him.

Eddie

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Never shot a mountain lion. Everything I have read about them from people with some actual been-there done-that time says they are not that hard to kill but are hard to hit.

A mountain lion killed a deer about 75 feet from my back door. I keep a Winchester 94 in .30-30 in case it decides to come back for my horse. For hiking, I think a .357 would be sufficient. I'd also carry a knife, like a Randall #1, in case things get too close and personal.

We have Mt Lions around here. If one decideds to attack you, you probably won't know about it untill its teeth are sunk into the back of your neck. Nobody, and I mean nobody, practices self defense shooting under those conditions. But I would suspect anything from a 38 Special/9mm up would be fine. This is the one time for sure that I think control-ability is more important (way) than bullet preformance or energy.

Every now and then a mountain lion gets one here in Colorado. They love hikers and joggers.

Ben Lilly ran out of bullets, had a cat treed and killed it with a club!

Friend always talked about the time his wife attacked a lion in her hen house one night, chased it with her broom! It did get away with one chicken and never came back.

I don't have much knowledge about mountain lion attacks, but FWIW...

Clint Smith had an article in the August 2007 issue of Guns magazine about mountain lion attacks. His wife being a jogger who often ran through mountain lion county was the premise of the article. His recommendation was a lightweight snub revolver. A lightweight/easy to carry gun since the goal was to run and not fight mountain lions and a revolver since the fight would likely be muzzle contact or on the ground and one might foul the slide on an auto pistol by contacting the body of the cat.

mnt lions are pretty easy to kill. The people up here are happy with any caliber pistol with self defense round. bears never been a real problem here. Fire in the air and scare them (black bears)away. Any good defensive round you carry for people will work just fine!

Hi Nate.!
Are you (or were you) associated with a company called Aces High ?
For the record, we hike in Cougar territory all the time here in the PAC NW and whatever you carry, it should be larger than .380 and holstered closer to the front so that if you are attacked, you can reach quickly to the front of your waist band while fight off a coug.

The thing about cougs is...they usually jump you before you see them, thus having the pistol/revolver closest to your dominent hand, typically at a 2'o'clock position, is best from guides I've climbed mountains with.