I have a box of Remington UMC 115 grain and noticed some are shorter than the others. It seems the tips are pushed in on some, is this normal?

I should add that these were loaded (one time) in new Shield mags, just to try and break in the mag spring as all the Shield mags I have are very hard to load the last round or two. I also noticed these smaller ones were from the bottom of the magazine and have noticed more in the box that are shorter and not sure if those came from the bottom of the magazine too.

It seems there are 11 that are pushed in and I had loaded (once) one 7rd mag and seven 8rd mags.

That sort of looks like 380 ammo and 1 9mm. Answer to your question is NO.
Look on the casings and see if they all say 9mm or do the short ones say 380?
If you haven't shot any I suggest you don't. I would send that picture to Remington and ask them what to do with the box of ammo.

This is not normal. This is extremely bad. Do not shoot that ammo. Don't even shoot the "good" ones. When the combustion space is reduced, the pressure goes up, and it does not go up a little bit. What you show in the picture is a recipe for a possible disaster.

It begs the question...
Are you certain this was a NEW box of factory Remington ammo? While I am simply not a fan of Remington-UMC or any Remington ammo (or anything associated with Remington), it would not be typical for them to ship something that BAD.

If you are certain that this is new ammo that you purchased, you need to get a hold of Remington-UMC immediately and send them the picture. They may ask you to ship the ammo to them. Either way, they should compensate you for that junk and do -NOT- shoot it.

Thanks gman and sevens. Yes, these came from 2 boxes (50 packs) that were purchased new. They all say 9mm. Yikes, glad I decided to unload the mags and noticed them. Will contact them. Thanks

I use mikes to check the rounds in the mags. usually write the lengths down to see if the bullets change length. ^^^^^ good info on the replys on your thread. even at 2 am there is always help on the forum.

I had the same thing happen with some Federal 9mm ammo. It was obvious when I opened the box that several of the bullets and been pushed back into their casings somewhere along the way. I'd bought them from Cabela's website, and I returned them to my local Cabela's store. They allowed me to exchange them, no questions asked.

__________________
What, me worry?

I can't remember the brand, but I was checking a box of 45 auto ammo and found the bullets could be pushed into the case with finger pressure! I didn't buy any and didn't for a long time. Seems the issue was corrected, but sure makes you wonder sometimes.

Wow ... That's really bad. going to have to start paying closer attention to all ammo for now on! maybe because they cant make enough, QC is down. I had a jam up for the first time in my S&W 9mm PC after thousands of rounds. When clearing it I looked at the bullets and two had dents in the casing. removed them and looked at the rest I was gonna shoot and they all looked good and shot fine.

I find the uniformity of the excessive set-backs to be interesting. If the boxes had been stepped on (for example, or similarly crushed), I'd expect a varying range of set-back depths.

I'll have to pull out some boxes of UMC 9mm from the stash and see if there is anything like that.

Obviously the taper crimp on these rounds didn't have quite enough taper - that degree of setback could really send pressures super-high as noted above.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Every box of 9mm Winchester white box ammo I've ever bought has had a few bullets that were seated too low in the case. I keep a close look at anything I feed into my mag's and I properly discard the flawed ones.

I reload, so I don't buy too much factory ammo. Never seen that problem before. I agree with the other folks that you should get in touch with Remingtom right away for a refund or exchange.

It's a shame the way QC has slipped in the firearms industry lately.

Wow, I'd never even thought to look.

Procedures change today!

With any fmj ball ammo with no cannelure, it's fairly easy to get bullets pushed in too far from whatever reason. If you called Remington, I'm sure they'd tell you to send them in for a refund. Question from me would be who pays shipping? I'd ask for a prepaid shipping box. Personally, since I reload, I'd save myself the trouble and just pull down those few rounds and fix them.

It's good thing you caught this as 9MM ammo is particularly pressure sensitive to bullet setback and in this case it appears to be severe. Heed the advise give here and send these back to the manufacturer.
Jim

I had some 223 ammo from Remington where the bullets were loose, and some fell out. Called them and they sent a FEDEX label and just had me drop them in a FEDEX box. A week or so later, I got replacement ammo.

I paid nothing for shipping.

Wow. It's been said enough, you have a recipe for disaster there. I'd be comfortable tearing them down and fixing them, as suggested above.

I'd still alert the manufacturer.

No that is not normal. When I purchase factory ammo the first thing I do is eyeball and check the consistency of OAL of all the bullets in all the boxes and if I need to I get the calipers out and check the bullets in doubt and I pull all the bullets because something like you have shown could really cause a problem due to increased pressure.

__________________
James
On the Llano Estacado

If any handgun practice cartridge appears longer or shorter than the rest from the same box, it gets discarded. Self-defense ammo gets measured with calipers; deviation in cartridge length of more than 0.004" from average and it gets either discarded or becomes practice ammo.

VERY DANGEROUS. DO NOT SHOOT. DISCARD.

When a bullet is forced deeper into the case, often because of repeated chambering of a round, or bad loading technique when inserting cartridges into the magazine, it causes the pressure to go exponentially sky high.

I would absolutely NOT shoot that shorter ammo. Discard it appropriately so that no one else attempts to shoot it either. If the pressures are too high, the least you will do is cause excessive wear. It is possible, however, that those rounds will cause a catastrophic failure in your weapon, which usually is mostly startling with minor injuries, but which can cause major injuries or death.

I CANNOT STRESS STRONGLY ENOUGH - DISCARD THAT AMMO.

WOW! Never paid very close attention. I will now. It is interesting the all the short ones seem to be exactly the same. The most I ever do is pull out the tray with all the rounds in and eyeball or run a finger over the rounds t see is I feel any difference.

This thread is good example why people should know what a squib sounds like and what to do right then, as well as why sometimes the slide blows apart.
Maybe checking ammo for defects should be included in the safety rules for all shooters.

This is *exactly* what I saw with two boxes of Rem 115 grain UMC back in the spring. It caused all kinds of FTF malfunctions. I had a thread about it too. Looks like it's still happening.

__________________
NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

I thought I would offer some details of my efforts on measuring my stash of 9mm I have and some range time as a follow to feeding issues or OAL concerns. I performed a random sampling of my inventory of 9mm round nose, 115 gr. from Blazer, Federal, Herter's and Winchester and Atlanta Arms reloads. I did a random sampling of 4-5 rounds per box. I surveyed approximately four boxes of Blazer; a dozen of Federal; six of Herter's; two of 100 count of Winchester and two regular 50 count of Winchester White Box. I used a calibrated Mituotoya (SP?) six inch OAL dial caliper.

The Blazer had a low (minimal) OAL of 1.000 and a long (high) of 1.100;
Atlanta Arms was at 1.131/1.141 with a low of 1.121;
Herter's was exactly at 1.151 for ALL - each one performed as expected;
Remington ran from 1.100 to 1.010 with a flyer at 1.117 - they all failed to feed and I did not attempt to fire;
Federal was at 1.160 for a high & at 1.146 for a low with the average at 1.151;
Winchester White Box ran from 1.163 as a high to a low of 1.135 and the range was average from 1.160 - 1.158;

I headed to the range (with out the Blazer) with my Sig 226. All mags have new springs and are Sig OEM. All fed well with with the exception of the Remington. I ran approximately several hundred through and I had at east three FTF with each magazine; each round required a quick rack and feeding was ok; I did not measure, but, all Remington I took was on the small side of the OAL. I contacted Remington and was told that without lot numbers or a UPC code, there was nothing it could do; I had bought the Remington in bulk box (1,000) at Cabelas. I could have used a lot number from a bulk box I had in my stash, but, I am sworn...

As an adder, I ran a mag of Hornady Critical Duty hollow point through and had no issues. What does that mean? Nothing. Just that I did not document sizes.

What does all this mean? Well, for my gun, longer is better. And no more Remington. Go figure.

I do look carefully while at the store. Any box that shows any sign of damage or being opened, I do not buy.
I have had a couple of experiences. One box of 38sp. had a 357 mixed in. On another occasion, a HP rnd was mixed in with FMJ.
I've seen knuckleheads open boxes and pull out rounds to look at them Sometimes 2 or 3 boxes and compare rounds from each.
This is a problem in big stores where ammo is on shelves like a grocery store.

First off thanks for posting this! Seen this with Winchester white box FMJ 9mm but never Remington. Also saw slightly undersized brass from Winchester in both 9mm and 380 so yep in today's world look over your ammo!!

Just wondering..does anyone recall an event like this happening say more than 8 to 10 years ago or could one assume that it is relatively recent or more common as in the last several tears. With the recent demand for firearms and ccw happening everywhere in the past several years, along with new players in the industry,I'm wondering if the demand isn't overloading the QC on the assembly lines.

Update: Still waiting for the "ammo techs" to look at the issue/images to decide if they warrant replacement or evaluation. They will send a prepaid label to send them out.

Final update: No response back from Remington. I would take they believe the ammo is safe to use. Will try them out at the range next time.

It isn't safe to shoot this ammo. Contact the manufacturer. I don't think I've ever seen any reloads by anybody look this bad.

There's a thread over on the Sigtalk forum where a guy found different case lengths in a box of 9mm WWB.

__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

I know Speer 9mm Gold Dot and Aquilla 124gr ball ammo have a sealer added to their bullets so they don't do that.
I have not checked any other ammo for a sealer, though.

Some have the bullet and primer sealed...........
in that case of yours, I do not think a sealer was used, in order to keep the price down.

I would say bad case prep. at the Remington plant. It happens.
Glad that you caught it.

I use nickel snap caps that have the same weight as normal rounds. I load new magazines with them to break in the springs and also carry new pistols around the house with them until I'm confident to carry the gun/holster/weight combo "in the wild". The snap cap have primers replaced with red silicone.

No, varying OALs (and other dimensions and defects) in production ammo has happened since mass production started. John Browning made field adjustable headspace in his heavy machine guns for good reason. Slight differences in bullet ogive and machine setup are the major causes. Machinery getting out of adjustment during production runs also happens. Frequently, the differences are minor and don't affect operability.

Good setup people (adjust tooling) get paid extremely well for obvious reasons. I understand they're hard to find these days, technical education being frequently viewed as demeaning.

I once got an enormous bargin on 9mm ball by a noted overseas manufacturer with wildly varying OALs. It would work in the subguns, but not the service pistols, so they surplused it. A quick run through my seating die and it was good to go.

When folks start cutting costs (the bean counters/Haaavard MBAs want to maximize profit), tooling and QC are the first things hit. Then they decide not to scrap stuff that previously would have been out of spec. They tend to sell it. If people notice and complain, they take care of it. Still ends up with a better bottom line. Note: sometimes they sell the stuff to folks who are expected to break it down for components or re-manufacture it. And they don't, they sell it as is.

Many decades ago, an automotive writer noted that the important issue is who sells the most bananas (at the highest markup), brown spots and all. Nothing's really changed, it's just the matter of degree.

The gents who mentioned contacting the ammo companies are correct. They will take care of you.

So in 9 months they haven't gotten back to,you? Remington has slipped farther than I even imagined.