Cheap 9mm JHP- expansion?

scoobysnacker · Dec 2, 2016

I'm glancing at some prices on some different inexpensive JHP. These are going under $16 a box of 50, which would be a great bargain if they expanded. Thing is, what I'm reading is, they don't.

Brands in question- really, almost anything you can get for around that price; Magtech, GECO, PPU, etc. In looking at the GECO website, they don't even mention expansion, they instead talk about changing the balance of the projectile so it's more accurate. There's a Lucky Gunner study out on the internet, GECO isn't on it, but some others are, and the ammo goes right through the ballistic gelatin without expansion (PPU and Magtech).

What are the brands/versions that don't expand, and do any lower-priced stuff expand? What would you say is the least expensive reliable ammo that does? Thanks

JohnK · Dec 2, 2016

You can obtain Federal 9 BPLE 115 gr. HP, that certainly do expand.

The last batch were bought online at $ 18-19 per 50.

These have a long, and very good track record.

Standard pressure Federal 9BP, also works well, at about the same price, or a little less.

Brasky · Dec 2, 2016

Good jhp for $14.99/50

Federal Law Enforcement 9mm Luger Ammo 147 Grain Hi-Shok JHP

Or better for $19.99

Federal HST 9mm 147 Grain LE JHP

I personally would spend the extra $5 and get the HST for $19.99+shipping as it provides excellent penetration and expansion

Those low cost brands you mentioned will typically not expand and should be treated as fmj. With both Hst and gold dots available around $20 per 50 there is no reason to go cheap on your carry ammo

Arik · Dec 2, 2016

scoobysnacker said:
I'm glancing at some prices on some different inexpensive JHP. These are going under $16 a box of 50, which would be a great bargain if they expanded. Thing is, what I'm reading is, they don't.

Brands in question- really, almost anything you can get for around that price; Magtech, GECO, PPU, etc. In looking at the GECO website, they don't even mention expansion, they instead talk about changing the balance of the projectile so it's more accurate. There's a Lucky Gunner study out on the internet, GECO isn't on it, but some others are, and the ammo goes right through the ballistic gelatin without expansion (PPU and Magtech).

What are the brands/versions that don't expand, and do any lower-priced stuff expand? What would you say is the least expensive reliable ammo that does? Thanks

Correct, most of these are really nothing more than FMJ with a hole.

If you want reliable expansion look for -

-Speer Gold Dot,
-Federal HST,
-Winchester Ranger,
-Federal white box gov contract overruns
-Hornady

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petepeterson · Dec 2, 2016

I haven't personally tested it for expansion, but the Federal White-box rounds can be had for some really good prices. I use the 147-gr JHPs in my shorter barreled 9mms, and the 115s in my hi-caps. Never an issue.

As always, placement is king.

Ptarmigan · Dec 2, 2016

My assumption is you are only asking about expansion in a 9mm handgun round for one reason.

Is this really where you want to cut corners and go super cheap? Spend the money for the wonderful Federal HST round in your weight and speed of choice. Then go bargain hunting for practice FMJs in the same weight and speed so you can practice, practice, practice until you can make those spendy HSTs expand right where you want them to.

Nevada Ed · Dec 2, 2016

When reloading rifle ammo, I learned that the Speer bullet came in four flavors.
There was the light copper jacket for target work, then there was
the little heavier CXP2 design for the use of light animals.
The next step up was the CXP3 design for medium game and
then the "Bonded" bullet for large or dangerous game.

This also takes place with revolver and pistol bullets.
Most copper bullets will not have the copper makeup or thickness of the bullet from the tip to the ogive and base.
The best is that they will be listed for target, plinking or SD use.

Not all SD bullets are designed for quick expansion or even penetration. Let along a round that will go 100 straight with out a feeding or ejection problem in your pistol.

Fire 100 fist to see if they feed right............
then worry about expansion.

A lot of people are going at this SD thing all wrong.
However that is just my two cents.

V0OBWxZS16 · Dec 2, 2016

Some bullets have hollow points as a production side effect for accuracy. These are not designed for hunting or self-defense and are sub-optimal for those purposes.

Before asking "What ammo should I use?" you should ask "What should ammo do, what shouldn't it do, and how is it tested?" I recommend the following:
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the Firearms Training Unit of the FBI
Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Ordnance gelatin test assessment for rifle and pistol calibers by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
What's Wrong With The Wound Ballistics Literature And Why by Dr. Fackler

For specific recommendations I start here:
Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Then here:
9mm Ammo Quest on Youtube by ShootingTheBull410

JohnK said:
You can obtain Federal 9 BPLE 115 gr. HP, that certainly do expand.

These have a long, and very good track record.

DocGKR:

Note that the Federal 115 gr 9BP and 9BPLE were very inconsistent in testing, with insufficient penetration in bare gelatin, bullet fragmentation leading to poor expanded diameter, and a high failure to expand in denim testing.
...
The Federal 115 gr 9BP and 9BPLEhas insufficient penetration in bare gelatin, has 20 to 40% failure to expand in denim testing, and is less than ideal against intermediate barriers like auto windshields. I personally would not choose to use it given all the better options currently available.

kwh · Dec 2, 2016

Bullet performance also depends on barrel length.

scoobysnacker · Dec 3, 2016

Brasky said:
Good jhp for $14.99/50

Federal Law Enforcement 9mm Luger Ammo 147 Grain Hi-Shok JHP

Or better for $19.99

Federal HST 9mm 147 Grain LE JHP

I personally would spend the extra $5 and get the HST for $19.99+shipping as it provides excellent penetration and expansion

Those low cost brands you mentioned will typically not expand and should be treated as fmj. With both Hst and gold dots available around $20 per 50 there is no reason to go cheap on your carry ammo

Thanks for that; although I have ordered from that site before, I hadn't looked at their offerings in the SD rounds... seems like they usually cost more than some others unless you take advantage of the free bulk shipping.

Ptarmigan My assumption is you are only asking about expansion in a 9mm handgun round for one reason.

Is this really where you want to cut corners and go super cheap?

Respectfully, there are different levels of going cheap. Most of what I come across, especially in an actual store, will run closer to $20 for a box of 20. If I were to take the don't go cheap with SD ammo logic and NOT ask or look around, I would be looking at a purchase that is twice the price as what someone just provided me.

I don't want this to become a contentious thread, but let's be honest about it; we're talking pistol ammo. The super-pricey stuff will not cause a bad guy to explode into a bunch of sparks, and the cheapest FMJ will not bounce off and make the bad guy laugh hysterically at me. I understand shot placement is the biggest single factor.

Arik · Dec 3, 2016

scoobysnacker said:
shot placement is the biggest single factor.

It is but that's easier said than done. On paper it's easier to hit vital areas when in a relaxed state. Not so much when heart is pumping and the bad guy isn't necessarily standing still, facing you with his body exposed. You would want every advantage. FMJ penetrates better and can over penetrate, but doesn't put as much energy into the body. Good, proven HP has less chance of penetration but puts more energy into soft tissue. It also expands causing more damage, both permanent and temporary

The $20 for 20 is BS. Look for LE boxes. Both Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST sell them in boxes of 50 for just under $30

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scoobysnacker · Dec 3, 2016

Arik said:
The $20 for 20 is BS. Look for LE boxes. Both Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST sell them in boxes of 50 for just under $30

I agree that the $20 for 20 price is bad; and it's what I run into a lot locally, when you figure in tax. I haven't seen a box of 50 in SD rds on a shelf in awhile, not where I look.

Hence, the reason for the thread. If I'm ordering online, I have a lot more choices available. Always makes sense to check if there is something comparable at a better value.

Arik · Dec 3, 2016

scoobysnacker said:
I agree that the $20 for 20 price is bad; and it's what I run into a lot locally, when you figure in tax. I haven't seen a box of 50 in SD rds on a shelf in awhile, not where I look.

Hence, the reason for the thread. If I'm ordering online, I have a lot more choices available. Always makes sense to check if there is something comparable at a better value.

Online! Best place to buy/most variety!

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CTG_COLLECTOR · Dec 3, 2016

Don't overlook S&B's 115JHP.

It worked well in Zimmerman's attacker. It expanded well and didn't exit his attacker's body.

Personally I'd pick this load before any standard economy JHP from Win, Fed, Rem or Hornady.

Irn-Bru · Dec 3, 2016

For self defense ammo don't cheap out. Study what works best out your barrel length and buy the best quality and proven ammo there is.

Fishslayer · Dec 5, 2016

For $4-ish more per 50 you can get the good stuff. Why take chances?

I'll have that nickel brass if you're not saving it.

50 Round Box - 9mm Luger Federal HST 147 Grain Hollow Point LE Ammo P9HST2 | SGAmmo.com

martybee · Dec 8, 2016

Hornady 124 gr. XTP

I, Use, Hornady 9mm Luger 124 gr XTP® SD Ammo loaded by Freedom Munitions.
Very inexpensive! Cost is about $18.00 @box of 50. (For New, not reloads!) Velocity: 1014 FPS.

The reloads are even less expensive. (about $17.00 a box) The cost is for these quality SD 9mm cartridges is low and they can be used for target practice and to verify good feed and fire in your particular handgun. I am sure someone else will post comments on this ammo both, pro and con.

This; from their website!
"Hornady® XTP® bullet loaded by Freedom Munitions."

"Designed for hunting, self-defense and law enforcement applications, the XTP® bullet demonstrates the kind of accuracy which led many competitive shooters to adopt it. Its reliable performance makes the XTP® the most popular handgun bullet for both target shooters and hunters. It's the stopping power of the XTP® bullet that has truly built its world-class reputation. From the onset, XTP® bullets were specifically designed to expand reliably at a wide range of handgun velocities to deliver deep penetration with every shot.

XTP® ammo may be loaded with Brass and/or Nickel cases.
Hornady 9mm Luger 124 gr XTP® Velocity: 1014 FPS"

star1 · Dec 8, 2016

XTP

Here is a pic of a couple of those XTP by Freedom that I shot into water jugs , expanded to about .54 inches , shot with my SD9VE , picked out of the 5th water jug .... so they DO expand . I realize it's not ballistics gel but best that I had

star1 · Dec 8, 2016

Video should show up here (copy and paste into browser)

goo.gl/P7Gwwv

The URL looks weird but I used googles URL shortner

Irn-Bru · Dec 11, 2016

Check out the YouTube channel ShootingTheBull. He thoroughly tests every kind of 9mm SD ammo. Federal HST came out on top. The 147 grain and 124 grain performed excellent, both standard and +P.

Cheap 9mm JHP- expansion?

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