Norma 38 Special 110 grain Norma Magnum

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Mike6735

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With Norma .44 Magnum being a hot topic right now, rather than hijack that OP's thread, I wanted to also wanted to focus on that company's 38 Special Norma Magnum- hotter than the Treasury Load by both Winchester and Federal. I have a few boxes of it- it's been off the market for over 25 years but a great round, I always felt. I believe it was a favorite of US state police agencies as I can recall seeing it in the belt loops of our Ohio State Patrol many years ago. Was this round an attempt to revive the power of the old Remington 38 Special Hiway Patrol load? The Norma round had a muzzle velocity of 1,225 fps. Anything I can learn about this load would be interesting to me as it is a really hot in a 38 Special case. No one talks about it anymore.
 
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I know that the 110 gr JHPs +P+ were found lacking in tactical penetration - most Police converted to the 38 Spl +P 125 gr SJHP and 38 Spl +P 158 gr LHP.
 
I purchased a box in the 1970s. It was loaded with a shallow JHP of 110 grains. It was a hot load and ran best in longer barrels. Around 1980, the marketing folks seized upon it and named it the .38 Magnum round. I purchased several boxes and found that (subjectively) it was less hot than my original 1970s version, although nothing to stand in front of!

I know nothing about any LE acceptance: there was no shortage of +P loadings by U.S. mfgrs at that time, most of which seemed to be loaded with better designed JHP bullets.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
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I would have to look up the specs to be certain, but the Norma round was likely the hottest .38 Special round ever in production and with the highest pressure. It was a stouter load than the nearest competitor, Super Vel.

The Norma ammo probably saw law enforcement use as many officers in the early '70s bought whatever had the highest velocity. "Tactical penetration", whatever that might be, may not have been in the vocabulary at that time and was probably not a topic of conversation.
 
All I can tell you is that the Norma specs for the .38 Special Magnum with a 110 grain JHP bullet was given as 1542 ft/sec (580 ft-lbs), from a 6" barrel.
 
Speer #8 manual shows Speer chronographed it in a 6" S&W and muzzle velocity was 1366, still 120 fps faster than the Super Vel 110 they also chronographed.
 
rockquarry said:
Speer #8 manual shows Speer chronographed it in a 6" S&W and muzzle velocity was 1366, still 120 fps faster than the Super Vel 110 they also chronographed.
Click to expand...

I would not be surprised that the published Norma MV was obtained from a 6" test barrel, not from a real 6" barreled revolver.
 
When first put on the market, it was rated as a regular pressure - non +P - cartridge. That turned out to be a mistake caused by different test procedures, as I recall the story at the time, used by Norma. When tested with the US methods, it was +P.
The fireball from the original is terrific.

I found this notice from 1981 -

Norma .38 Magnum now designated + P

The .38 Special Norma Magnum (stock 19119) introduced in 1980 is to be redesignated + P in the United States, according to information received from FFV Norma. Sweden. “It will still have a muzzle velocity of 1225 fps and a muzzle energy of 367 ft. lbs. In other words, it will still have its remarkable Magnum performance,” he said.
“We are designating the cartridge + P in the United States simply to observe industry’ standards here, which are different from some other countries.” he added.

For additional information contact:
Greg Pogson. Vice President.
Marketing (607) 273-2993
 
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My 110gr high vel. factory ammo is all long gone.

Nothing wrong with 1225fps out of a 6" barrel with 38 cases.
As far as a 110gr JHP getting up to 1542fps out of a revolver...?

Over the years of loading a M19 and 686 with 6" barrels I was
able to get around 1060fps with the fast powder and with a medium
powder like BE-86, around 1104fps to 1132fps.

My maximum, manual "Treasery Load" runs at 1305fps.....
which is a little under the Speer #8 data listed above, in one of
the post at 1366fps.

As a note, my two top accuracy loads in a 6" came in at 1104 and 1132fps.......
that has 313 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.
 
I still have some. Many of us carried that as a duty load in the early 80's. I clocked it at 1232 fps from a 4in Smith. On another day I chrono tested it in a 6.5 model 27 vs a 110gr 357(cant remember which maker). The Norma was faster going over 1400 fps. This load was used several times to deal with large attacking dogs. Cross torso thru the shoulders they would exit and this was on large pitbulls and large mix breeds. Had a large blast similar to a magnum. Typically ran 75fps faster than our treasury loads from Federal. I doubt that the bullet ever expanded as the hollowpoint was tiny and there was no skiving on the jacket.
 
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xcop said:
I still have some. Many of us carried that as a duty load in the early 80's. I clocked it at 1232 fps from a 4in Smith. On another day I chrono tested it in a 6.5 model 27 vs a 110gr 357(cant remember which maker). The Norma was faster going over 1400 fps. This load was used several times to deal with large attacking dogs. Cross torso thru the shoulders they would exit and this was on large pitbulls and large mix breeds. Had a large blast similar to a magnum. Typically ran 75fps faster than our treasury loads from Federal. I doubt that the bullet ever expanded as the hollowpoint was tiny and there was no skiving on the jacket.
Click to expand...

^^^^what he said. Great post, very informative. Real world use, not speculation. Only wish Norma had used nickeled casings. Would be interesting to test this round in a carbine bbl. I shot up some very early (not marked +P) R-P 158gr JHP .38s in a 16" bbl Rossi lever gun. Still had tremendous muzzle flash. I occasionally carried this load for off-duty security work.

Poster xcop confirms my examination of the shallow JHP. Poster Arik would call it a FMJ with a hole.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
Just don't shoot any of these light weight bullet high speed ammo out of Model 66 that have the thin forcing cone.
 
rockquarry said:
Speer #8 manual shows Speer chronographed it in a 6" S&W and muzzle velocity was 1366, still 120 fps faster than the Super Vel 110 they also chronographed.
Click to expand...

FWIW, in the July '77 GUN WORLD Dean Grennell showed the Norma load going 1371 fps in a 6" Douglas barrelled Behlert K-38 PPC gun (complete w/ Fuzzy's stocks).
 
I also recall being asked if I was on the take in order to afford it. Shock and awe out of a 6" M&P. Not so much from a 4" 28-2. There are a few rounds in the "Miscellaneous" box. The dimple was cute, if not effective.
 
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