a factory 10mm in a Semi-Auto compares to what Revolver caliber ?
Comparison 10mm to Revolver Calibers
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Power wise? . . . The 10MM Auto cartridge compares to full power 357 Magnum and often slightly beyond
Accuracy wise? . . . The 10MM Auto cartridge is on par with the 41 Magnum which has similar aerodynamic characteristics
Accuracy wise? . . . The 10MM Auto cartridge is on par with the 41 Magnum which has similar aerodynamic characteristics
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Rammer Jammer
Member
41 Magnum...
Definitely not a 41 mag. Only thing that makes it better than a 357(maybe) is it has a 4 in the caliber.
A stiff loaded .357 in a comparable barrel length!
Whenever this discussion pops up (I think it’s already been a couple months since the last .41mag vs. 10mm debate), I break out the popcorn. The fact is: 10mm will always fall short of .41 magnum. The hottest loaded 10mm may just approach mildly loaded .41 mag ballistics, but just barely. Factory .41 mag has at least a 200 ft/lb ME advantage over factory 10mm out of the same length barrel. Don’t believe me? Go over to ballistics by the inch and see for yourself.
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bigggbbruce
Member
None really, but the closest would be the .41 Magnum..
Data shows .41 Mag 210gr at 1233 fps. and 10mm 200gr 1130. Close but not quite.
But when it showed up in a semi in the '80s, it got my attention..still does.
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Much of the "like a 41 Magnum" chatter that goes on around the internet is a mis-quote from an article that John Taffin did on the 10MM Magnum cartridge about 20+ years ago. In that article he did say the 10MM was on par with the 41 Magnum. However he was not referring to the 10MM Auto, it was the 10MM Magnum. Folks have just ended up dropping that last part. . .thus an Internet Urban Legend is born
Yes it is possible to download the 41 Magnum to the level of the full power 10MM Auto, but I have never seen the need.
I agree with this as long as we can all agree that while this is totally accurate... it doesn't tell the entire story when the rubber meets the road.
The .41 Magnum from -ANY- firearm so chambered is always going to out-do the 10mm ballistically, no matter what 10mm ammo you come up with, and this is guaranteed by simple physics... pressure, allowable space for propellant, end of story.
However when it is time to start shooting, .41 Magnum handguns have six rounds in them. Not sure what the Desert Eagle in .41 holds... 7 perhaps? And even the smallest 10mm guns are packing more ammo and faster reloads and unless Jerry Miculek is in the race, the pistols are going to lay down multiple shots of 10mm in a faster, smoother manner.
Faster shooting, more hits on target, more ammo in the gun, faster reloading.
It definitely makes more sense to compare the 10mm to the .357 Magnum than to try and compare it to the .41 Magnum.
10 MM Auto v. .41 Mag.
While it has long been common for sellers of 10 MM pistols who do not also sell .41 Magnums to claim they are equal, the politest thing to call that is a fib. In the 1980s Winchester introduced aluminum jacketed 10 MM and .41 Magnum Silver Tip cartridges with the same advertised bullet weight and velocity, 175 grains and 1,250 fps. Glock used those two cartridges to compare their Model 20 10 MM to .41 Magnums and the fib continues. Showing the fib for what it was, at the time those cartridges were introduced Remington was selling 170 grain .41 Magnum cartridges with an advertised velocity of 1,500 fps out of a 4" revolver. Since both 10 MM and .41 Magnum have enough power for most things at close range the better comparison is what they'll do at 100 yards. At 100 yards no 10 MM Auto loading comes close to a standard 210 grain .41 Magnum.
While it has long been common for sellers of 10 MM pistols who do not also sell .41 Magnums to claim they are equal, the politest thing to call that is a fib. In the 1980s Winchester introduced aluminum jacketed 10 MM and .41 Magnum Silver Tip cartridges with the same advertised bullet weight and velocity, 175 grains and 1,250 fps. Glock used those two cartridges to compare their Model 20 10 MM to .41 Magnums and the fib continues. Showing the fib for what it was, at the time those cartridges were introduced Remington was selling 170 grain .41 Magnum cartridges with an advertised velocity of 1,500 fps out of a 4" revolver. Since both 10 MM and .41 Magnum have enough power for most things at close range the better comparison is what they'll do at 100 yards. At 100 yards no 10 MM Auto loading comes close to a standard 210 grain .41 Magnum.
10 mm factory depends on which factory. The usual range ammo is 40SW
"+p".
For practical purposes 10 mm is equivalent to 357 magnum.
If 41 mag means the old "city load", a 210 gr bullet at about 1000 fps from a service length barrel, then the 10 mm can easily best that.
"+p".
For practical purposes 10 mm is equivalent to 357 magnum.
If 41 mag means the old "city load", a 210 gr bullet at about 1000 fps from a service length barrel, then the 10 mm can easily best that.
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HamHands
Member
Exactly!
The only 10mm factory load that is anywhere close to where it should be is the "SIG" branded 10mm. Otherwise, roll your own or you really are getting a .40cal that is 65fps faster than .40cal factory ammo is loaded.
To answer the OP's question: The 10mm, hand loaded ammo is comparable to a very, very warm .357Magnum factory load. I'd say even the 10mm is a hair or two more potent even.
The poster that points to the thump/knock down power at 100 yards between the .41Mag and a 10mm brings up a darn good point! The .41Mag is going to have much more kinetic energy at 100+Yards than 10mm can for sure!
That said, .44Special/.44Magnum is my favorite handgun load. I've seen people on this very forum compare the 10mm as equal to the good ol' .44Magnum; which is a total joke! I like 10mm and all but it's certainly NO .44Magnum no matter how you slice it!
$96 for a Model 58! Sounds so cheap! But that would be almost $800.00 in today’s money. Still a great deal, because you won’t touch a new in box never fired Model 58 for less than twice that much probably.
These are my woods guns. 44 magnum 3” and 454 Casull. I carry one or the other.
I do prefer a 454 Casull because of the power.
I do love my revolvers, but I reload for all of the Magnums.
10 mm is one caliber I never acquired. I stock or reload all major calibers from 22 LR/WMR to 380 ACP up to the 500 magnum in handguns.
My most powerful semiautomatic pistols are the 357 magnum Coonan “1911” and 44 Magnum Desert Eagle.
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I think the most judicious comparison between 10mm and 41 Magnum was that they were going to both be the theoretical perfect "sweet spot" calibers for police and security work in autoloaders and revolvers, respectively. Theoriticiains, experts, men in the field, all set down and thought that a high power cartridge inbetween 9mm and 45 in pistols and 38 Special and 44 Magnum/Special in revolvers would be the perfect, ideal load that would combine the advantages of power and bullet size from the larger bore over the 9mm/38 and better penetration from smaller bullet diameter over 44/45, even using lighter bullets than the bigger calibers for lower recoil.
No, power wise they aren't the same, although they can overlap if you want lighter service grade 41 ammunition. Yes, they are close enough in caliber for some comparison. But I always consider them very related in the fact they were both the later 20th century Prophesised Rounds of Ascended Perfection that were going to learn from the popular service rounds that came before them and correct their flaws, take their strengths, and move onward to a better future in performance. Both ended up becoming obsolescent and now are considered truly boutique by many, their old rivals still maintain to this day their success and popularity.
Today we speak of their excellent performance and admire the cartridges they are. Despite their great qualities, they are now also mostly footnotes in service history terms. The 9mm and 45 ACP still carry on, the 357 Magnum and 44 Special are still carried in backup revolvers even if the full size service revolver is all but extinct in the US. The 10mm and 41 Magnum will always be the "rounds that were to be Kings" of 70's and 80's lore and theory, if never all that much practice.
No, power wise they aren't the same, although they can overlap if you want lighter service grade 41 ammunition. Yes, they are close enough in caliber for some comparison. But I always consider them very related in the fact they were both the later 20th century Prophesised Rounds of Ascended Perfection that were going to learn from the popular service rounds that came before them and correct their flaws, take their strengths, and move onward to a better future in performance. Both ended up becoming obsolescent and now are considered truly boutique by many, their old rivals still maintain to this day their success and popularity.
Today we speak of their excellent performance and admire the cartridges they are. Despite their great qualities, they are now also mostly footnotes in service history terms. The 9mm and 45 ACP still carry on, the 357 Magnum and 44 Special are still carried in backup revolvers even if the full size service revolver is all but extinct in the US. The 10mm and 41 Magnum will always be the "rounds that were to be Kings" of 70's and 80's lore and theory, if never all that much practice.
Funny thing, but they both failed because they were too powerful, with factory loads, for the intended user (law enforcement).
The 10mm got downloaded to the 40 S&W. The 41 Magnum never got the 41 Special, or reduced factory loads, that LE wanted.
While a 10mm auto benefits from a lack of a barrel-cylinder gap it's 4-1/2" barrel is actually a 3-1/4" barrel which probably offsets the revolver's 4" barrel & it's B-C gap.
The 10mm has a higher SAAMI max pressure (37.5K psi) than the 41 Mag (36K psi). Comparing case capacity it's no match. The 41 mag holds 33.8 grs/H²O to the 10mm's 24.1 grs/H²O, or 40% more volume.
For the 10mm, with a 200gr bullet, a max load would be about 13.0gr/2400. For the 41 Mag, with a 210gr bullet, a max load would be about 19.0gr/2400. Again, no comparison.
I have both, & like both, but I don't compare them that way.
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one eye joe
US Veteran
THIS MAY ANGER SOME, BECAUSE THE .41 MAG HAS A CULT LIKE FOLLOWING---BUT I CONSIDER THE .41 MAG TO BE THE ANSWER TO A PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T EXIST. IT MAY BE A FAVORITE OF THE HANDLOADERS AND TINKERERS, BUT I DO NOT RELOAD.....
IMHO---THERE IS NOTHING THAT THE .41 MAG CAN DO, THAT CAN'T BE DONE WITH THE APPROPRIATE LOAD OF FACTORY AMMO IN EITHER .357 MAG OR .44 MAG, PICKED UP RIGHT OFF THE SHELF OF A LGS, OR ON-LINE FROM A BOUTIQUE MANUFACTURER.....
IMHO---THERE IS NOTHING THAT THE .41 MAG CAN DO, THAT CAN'T BE DONE WITH THE APPROPRIATE LOAD OF FACTORY AMMO IN EITHER .357 MAG OR .44 MAG, PICKED UP RIGHT OFF THE SHELF OF A LGS, OR ON-LINE FROM A BOUTIQUE MANUFACTURER.....
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