Corrosive or not!

NYlakesider · Jul 7, 2020

I was given 3 boxes of what I believe is surplus .308. Possibly Greek.

They come in Blue cardboard boxes that say 20pcs .308 Winchester (7.62X51 mm)

Looking at the back of the brass cases it says:

308W
a zero at 9 and 3 o'clock
83

Any thoughts if they are corrosive or none corrosive.

Thanks, Dave

schutzen-jager · Jul 7, 2020

shine up a piece of scrap carbon steel , pull one bullet + shoot at piece of steel - if steel rusts in a few days it is corrosive - clean rifle you use for test immediately just to be safe -

DWalt · Jul 7, 2020

I don't know, but assume that they are corrosive just to be safe. There is no problem in using corrosive primed ammo, just use hot water to clean the bore and anything else that needs cleaning after you shoot it. It dissolves the corrosive salts.

I usually pour maybe 8 oz of hot water down the bore (using a small funnel), followed with a couple of dry patches, then clean with solvent as usual.

andy52 · Jul 7, 2020

83 is most likely the year of manufacture I'm pretty sure no one was using corrosive primers in 1983.

NYlakesider · Jul 7, 2020

andy52 said:
83 is most likely the year of manufacture I'm pretty sure no one was using corrosive primers in 1983.

Thats what I was thinking. Thought 83 was safe. I have shot corrosive stuff before, just getting lazy.

andyinlz · Jul 7, 2020

I use about 6oz of water mixed with about 1oz of Ballistol.

Do it right at the range.

Washes out salts AND leaves oil behind.

Then clean as usual at home.

JH1951 · Jul 7, 2020

Why risk the consequence if you are uncertain about the origin and quality of your ammunition? I would either not shoot it or clean up afterwards.

old tanker · Jul 7, 2020

That O-O headstamp is Sellier & Bellot. All Sellier & Bellot .308 winchester FMJ in the blue/green boxes from 1980-1983 is corrosive.

mckenney99 · Jul 7, 2020

Is it possible the "83" is actually SB

Ô / SB / Ô Sellier & Bellot - Vlašim, Prague, Czechoslovakia. Made percussion caps from 1825 and metal cartridges from 1870, beginning commercial hunting cartridge production in 1895. On the commercial ammunition headstamps the SB is at the 12 o'clock position and the "O"s (often referred to as "rosettes") are at the 3- and 9-o'clock positions. The "rosettes" indicate the use of Neroxin non-corrosive primers, S&B's proprietary brand.

*Looks Like Old Tanker beat me to it for ID. The info I found was slightly different. Error on the side of caution and assume it's corrosive.

NYlakesider · Jul 7, 2020

old tanker said:
That O-O headstamp is Sellier & Bellot. All Sellier & Bellot .308 winchester FMJ in the blue/green boxes from 1980-1983 is corrosive.

mckenney99 said:
Is it possible the "83" is actually SB

Ô / SB / Ô Sellier & Bellot - Vlašim, Prague, Czechoslovakia. Made percussion caps from 1825 and metal cartridges from 1870, beginning commercial hunting cartridge production in 1895. On the commercial ammunition headstamps the SB is at the 12 o'clock position and the "O"s (often referred to as "rosettes") are at the 3- and 9-o'clock positions. The "rosettes" indicate the use of Neroxin non-corrosive primers, S&B's proprietary brand.

*Looks Like Old Tanker beat me to it for ID. The info I found was slightly different. Error on the side of caution and assume it's corrosive.

I looked at it close with a bright light and a magnifier it is definitely 83 at the 6 o'clock position.

Mckenny and Old tanker, thanks for the tag team effort!

Also thanks to all that answered. I will keep it "in reserve".

old tanker · Jul 7, 2020

You got the trifecta; corrosive, .217 Berdan primed, and after thirty years of indifferent storage, unreliable. Bet there are nearly as many click-bang hangfires as Pakistani .303

growr · Jul 7, 2020

old tanker said:
You got the trifecta; corrosive, .217 Berdan primed, and after thirty years of indifferent storage, unreliable. Bet there are nearly as many click-bang hangfires as Pakistani .303

I am on the opposite side of the fence and would wager that every round goes boom....it IS S&B ammo..............

Randy

rwsmith · Jul 7, 2020

Shoot 'em all....

In one range session and then clean for corrosives. That way you'll just have to do the boiling water once.

walnutred · Jul 7, 2020

andy52 said:
83 is most likely the year of manufacture I'm pretty sure no one was using corrosive primers in 1983.

Pretty sure my 80's production 7.62x54R and 7.62x25 is corrosive.

Steve912 · Jul 7, 2020

Choot It, Beelay!

walnutred said:
Pretty sure my 80's production 7.62x54R and 7.62x25 is corrosive.

The green tracer guys were still running corrosive primers in
the Eighties.

Truthfully, corrosive primers aren't as damaging (assuming you
don't shoot em, and put the rifle up for years, untouched) as
consensus today, seems.

I've shot hundreds of rounds of corrosive primed ammo
thru a Mosin and a Romanian TTC, and bores are unchanged.

After a session, I run a dry patch, then a patch dampened
with tap water (from an old eye drop bottle), and a couple of
dry patches, then an oiled patch. No corrosion, no
problems. You can do ounces/gallons/boiling water, and
that'll work too---but we're talking thousands of miligrams
of residue, of which only a fraction is actually corrosive.

I've got a Garand with a 43 dated barrel, and it's fine.
The Mosin bore is fine. The TTC bore is pretty rough,
but that's how it came to me. I don't think we'd have any
unpitted Springfields, Garands, or Mosins, if corrosive
primers were that hard to clean up, or acted all that
rapidly.

banger · Jul 8, 2020

You guys beat me to it.

I was going to say Czech... and corrosive.

DWalt · Jul 9, 2020

Corrosive primers normally contained Potassium Chlorate as an impact-sensitive ingredient. In combustion, it produces Potassium Chloride which is deposited in the bore. Like ordinary salt, it attracts water and causes steel to corrode if left in place for any length of time. It is very soluble in water, and water is the most effective bore cleaning solvent. The WWII and Korean War military bore solvent was actually an emulsion of water and oil, and it was effective in removing the chloride residue. I have fired tons of old corrosive military ammo in many calibers, and cleaning the bore with water always works. My only real screwup was firing some Indian (as in Mumbai) 7.62x51 ammo in a nice Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. For some reason I forgot to clean it, and didn't realize it until a week or so later. By that time the bore had already rusted, and I tried everything to get the rust out, with only partial success. Fortunately, it didn't degrade its grouping performance very much, but it didn't do good things for the Model 70's value.

glowe · Jul 9, 2020

Back when I was getting original muzzleloaders and hammer shotguns back into shooting condition, I would oil the exterior of the barrel, run patches through the bore with a strong detergent to remove any oils inside, then plug the end of the barrel at the muzzle. Using a small funnel inserted in the chamber, fill the bore with Naval Jelly. 30 minutes is usually long enough to remove all rust even if the barrel is pitted. Use care not to get any on the exterior of the barrel since it will remove bluing, so have a wet rag handy. I am careful not to overfill the barrel, and when done, remove the muzzle stopper and let it drain, carefully push a patch through to get the excess jelly out and clean with soap and water and a brass brush. The results can be amazing.

CMP states that their 1970s/1980s M-1 Military ammo is not corrosive, but I don't take the chance, a patch with water/detergent does the job quickly.

DWalt · Jul 10, 2020

With the exception of .30 Carbine, which always used noncorrosive primers, U. S. military ammunition (.30-'06 and 45 ACP) used corrosive priming into the early 1950s. Some military match ammo used corrosive primers later. For reasons I don't understand, many foreign militaries continued manufacturing corrosive primed ammunition for far longer. It's safer to assume that any foreign military ammo is corrosive primed unless you know for sure that it isn't.

banger · Jul 10, 2020

DWalt said:
With the exception of .30 Carbine, which always used noncorrosive primers, U. S. military ammunition (.30-'06 and 45 ACP) used corrosive priming into the early 1950s. Some military match ammo used corrosive primers later. For reasons I don't understand, many foreign militaries continued manufacturing corrosive primed ammunition for far longer. It's safer to assume that any foreign military ammo is corrosive primed unless you know for sure that it isn't.

Simply for clarification.

Eastern block nations loaded corrosive ammo for basically two reasons.

1, It is much more tolerant of temperature extremes, especially the cold.

2, It has what is for all pactical purposes an unlimited shelf life.

Corrrosive priming is the same chemicals that all these years later, make unexploded bombs in Europe dangerous. Some more than 75 years later.

The detonators, (not the filler) was made with Potassium Chlorate. Think of it as the primer.... And it is still active.

Corrosive or not!

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