At the range my friend showed me his little .38 carry pistol and it was loaded with Liberty Civil Defense ammo, first time I'd seen it.

The bullet is like 50 grain and an advertised velocity of 1500+ fps.

I saw some reviews and tests of their 9mm with Paul Harrel and others who used his 'meat' target and other used clear gel. The 9mm ammo reaches over 2000 ft/sec.

It essentially works as a fragmenting round and performs better than expected. Penetration is bit shy of most other standard rounds but the expansion and bullet performance was impressive.

Has anybody tried out or seen anything on this ammo?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Thats way too light. It will fly, like you show, but it cannot keep the momentum when it hits target.
This is why LE uses heavier loads, ie: 124 gr 9mm, instead of 115. FBI does testing for these reasons.
Along comes a lot of snake oil bullets that underperform.

All kinds of this stuff has been coming and going for years!

This is just MY opinion.

In self defense, the goal for the bullet is to have sufficient penetration to destroy vital organs, but even better, sufficient penetration to reach the central nervous system. Essentially, that is the spine or the brain.

Penetration to the spine with a frontal shot will have to pass through clothing, flesh, possibly bones, and have enough energy left to severely damage the spine.

Bullets that cannot achieve this metric with common scientific testing for easy comparison, known now for 30 years and used as a standard by all reputable manufacturers, are used by people who fall prey to gimmicky marketing. Light and fast is one of the most common, with shallow fragmentation being a corollary. These are common in failing to sell bullet types over time.

Any bullet hitting a human is damaging. Any bullet hitting a human can persuade the individual to stop an attack. Any bullet hitting a human can kill. So, any bullet is better than no bullet.

However, when cost, meeting scientific criteria and a large body of real world evidence point to deep penetrating, expanding (not fragmenting) handgun bullets as being more effective more of the time, why bother with gimmicks?

Yes, novelty ammo for the YouTube gunfighting theorists.

Real world evidence?

Well maybe.

But there is evidence that no handgun round is a sure stopper even with center of mass hits -- even multiple hits.

So what that says to me is there is room for improvement in pistol bullets.

Now I'm not saying Liberty is a good choice for SD ammo. I really don't know.

But since all current handgun bullets are not even close to 100% effective, don't dismiss companies that try something different just because it hasn't been around for 30 years.

SD ammo is getting better, every day.


The new 9mm loads can get a JHP to expand out of a 3.5" pistol to .71 & .74"

and a 38 Spl snub nose can get a JHP to open up to .73" in diamiter.

Heck, we might be seeing plastic coated bullets with all the new stuff being tested in the labs........ Hornady already has a plastip tip on their hunting and target bullets.

Gimmick ammo

The standard M4 military 5.56 round is 62gr and leaves the rifle at approximately 2800fps. It would seem that a 50gr bullet out of a Glock 17 leaves the gun at approximately 2100fps might be an interesting defense round. The base of the bullet has plenty of penetration. The fragmentation pieces create several more wound holes internally. I’ve always believed bigger is better, and have carried many different 124gr or 147gr rounds in my 9mm guns. These Liberty Civil Defense rounds are interesting. And I’d think if you are carrying a CCW gun that holds 12-17 rounds, it would not hurt to have a few slots filled with these. Food for thought.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

You can't really compare a .22 caliber bullet of 50 grains with a much larger diameter bullet of a similar weight because of sectional density. Sectional density of the small diameter bullet is much greater because of its length in comparison with the very poor sectional density of a stubby 9mm or .38 caliber bullet that only weighs fifty grains.

A bullet with a high sectional density will penetrate far better than one with a low figure, assuming similar bullet makeup and construction. Look up the actual definition for sectional density. It's an important factor, but one not often mentioned by the gadgeteers, new schoolers, and upgraders.

I understand your point. I’m not suggesting the Liberty ammo will give superior penetration or the same penetration as an M4. But it may have sufficient penetration. And it fragments. It opens a pretty big wound cavity. It might be worth investigation. Then again, maybe not.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

50 grain self-defense ammo wouldn't be my first choice.

I'll keep my 158 JHP and 230 JHP its been battle tested and proven for many years on the mean streets of the world.

50gr ammo probably wouldn’t be my first choice either. But I can remember when 158gr round nose lead ammo in .38spl was carried by cops everywhere. And then suddenly SuperVel came out with 110gr hollow point rounds that changed the norm. SuperVel is back with some +P .38spl “Snub Loads” for short barrel guns. The ballistics look interesting. There has been a lot of advancement in ammo capabilities. I’m not stuck on any one round. They all have pluses and minuses. And dependent on circumstances I may change it up a little. But the good news is we have many choices that a few short years ago weren’t around. And we all can have our freedom of choice.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615