I have two very light weight revolvers. A Ruger LCR and a Ti jframe. Recoil can be pretty stout with both guns. I have some 148 gr wad cutters and am wondering what you all think of that ammo for self defense in those light weight revolvers .
Thanks.

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I like Ike.

Try the Federal Micro HST 38 Special +P JHP-WCs (if you can find 'em?)...

Also some good threads about them in the Reloading forum.

Cheers!

HBWC’ers make good defense rounds when loaded backwards over a medium load.

I load Buffalo Bore 150 gr. WC's in my carry guns......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Wadcutters should work fine as a self-defense load. Slow, but they pack a punch. I use them for small game hunting.

Thanks I'm going to switch to the wad cutters.

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I like Ike.

The wadcutters are my bullet / ammo of choice in Airweight J-Frame.
Only hits count ... can you have too much accuracy ...No.
Fast follow up shots are just as important , I have full faith in a wadcutter at handgun range .
Keep on carrying the WC .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I use Hornady 110gr. Critical defense in my Ruger LCR,,,practice with 148gr reloads...havent even shot the critical defense, maybe I should to be sure? I have been told that certain states require self defense ammo to be hollow or expanding point bullets....I've never looked into that myself, so I'm not sure if it's true or not

YEP1 I'M A BELIEVER.

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In Omnia Paratus

Make sure you carry both of those guns, one in each pocket, for a New York reload.

Jim Cirrillo, of the New York Stakeout Squad, personally told me his favorite load in his .38 Special service revolver was the "full charge wadcutter". That is no longer loaded by the main stream ammo companies.

However, if you have no objection to using reloads for self defense, then a home cast (or purchased) 148 gr solid base wadcutter ahead of 3.5 grs. of Bullseye or equivalent works really well.

NOTE: Do NOT try to load a hollow base wadcutter, as normally loaded, with a heavy charge of powder. I have personally seen three guns ruined when the base, with a heavy charge, separated from the bullet, lodged in the barrel, then bulged the barrel on next shot. That is a NO-NO!

My personal carry load is the +P 158 gr. factory hollow point in my 642,

FWIW
Dale53

Just a random thought re: selecting self defense ammo: I would 'picture' how the prosecutor will depict you and your weaponry in court. It's rare, but sometimes 'public opinion' can be swayed. Perhaps factory ammo that is legal in your state may be the most prudent way to go.
IMHO,
J.

Wadcutters are better than nothing. My advice is to load up full charge factory ammo, like the 158 gr. lead hollow point. In a real defensive situation, you won't notice the recoil or the noise.

Round nosed ball worked for years, and so will waddcutters, but I believe a quality hollow point round would be much better than either.

Greg Ellifritz, a trainer with good credentials, has an interesting write up that includes wadcutters. There is a great picture of tested wadcutters.

Lessons From the Revolver Roundup | Active Response Training

Other commentary he assembled.
The Best .38 Special Defensive Ammunition | Active Response Training

Needless to say, I carry 148gr wadcutters in the cylinder and Speed Strip reloads with Hornady FTX (because wadcutters are so difficult to load under pressure). YMMV.

I carry factory 148 wadcutters in my old Cobra.

I like to shoot my carry gun every other trip to the range, even if its just the ones in the gun. Then I l top off from the current box of wadcutters in my bag.

I solve the hard to load into the gun problem by not carrying a reload.

Shooting this thing with FBI loads borders on the masochistic. Wadcutters are a breeze and shoot to point of aim.

Though I personally think ammo choice for carry is nearly inconsequential (as long as it makes a hole) I have seen wadcutters work very well in actual shootings.

One lady decided she had reached her black eye quota for her marriage and shot her big oaf hubbie once with a .38 wadcutter just under the collarbone. He said “oh” and sat in his recliner and died. The medical examiner found the undeformed bullet in his pelvis where it had stopped after a whirlwind tour of most of his vital organs.

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Rule of law, not a man.

A 148 gr. BBwc in my J frame snub nose with 3.3 grs of Bullseye powder does
743fps with 181 ft/lms of energy at the muzzle.

A full load of Bullseye or w231 powder has a Heavy Recoil in my all Steel frame M49 38 special.

I have tried the Lead "FBI load", and the 110 , 125 & 135 JHP loads for SD use......
but found that the Federal Micro 130 HST to be the most accurate and POA load
that my revolver and I like with recoil and all things working out the best
for me at my range test
for ALL the loads that I have shot in this all steel J frame.

Lead & Gold Dots will work but I have deceided on the HST for my SD loading and carry round for the little 1 7/8" barrel.

However;
for lighter recoil...........
Lucky Gunner stated that the factory Winchester 148 lead wc load
at only 709fps in their 4 layer Gel test, penetrates 16".

Although my HD caliber is subsonic 5.7 X 28mm, I perceive wadcutters as acceptable. Interesting post about loading them upside down by GREYMAN50. I'd just as soon stick to factory loads. The 5.7 platform is kind of a pain for reloading anyway.

That wouldn't be my first choice, but if that's what you've got, and you can shoot it well...

You can do better, you can do worse.

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Only a cold warrior

I responded to hundreds of shootings in my career, and the two indelible lessons I learned were that I don't ever want to be shot with ANYTHING...and that once ANY bullet enters a human body all bets are off...you can't predict what's going to happen.

Two incidents stand out. The first was an 18 year old drug dealer who was shot in the abdomen and ran for three blocks before dropping. At the hospital, the x-ray showed the unmistakable image of a 230-grain FMJ .45ACP bullet...in his groin!

The second shooting involved a 300-pound crackhead who was charging at police officers with a big mallet in his hand. A retreating officer fired 12 shots from his Glock 17 one-handed while running backward. When we got there the perp was lying face-down with blood all over his face and head, and a large hematoma on his neck. What the heck???

When we cleaned off his face, we found a bullet wound under his right eye, next to his nose. Turned out that the round was deflected downward, through his mouth and down through his neck, where it nicked his jugular vein (hence the hematoma) before lodging in his right lung. He was still alive when we got him to Johns Hopkins...not sure about the ultimate outcome.

I think wadcutters in your lightweight revolvers is a very smart choice.

Whatever ammo you carry for self defense, just make sure it is factory made, not reloads.

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FBINA, 204th Session

I believe there are no wadcutters in the photo.

There was an old post about 38 snub nose ammo, mostly 125 gr
by different ammo companies with fps & penetration data and at
the end of the artical, the author added a 148 HBwc that was loaded backwards
that was a flop in his test.
The title had the word "Dynomite" some where in it.......
I had it logged but it is so old that it will not come up when I search for it, now.

Rim Rock has a 155 grain .38/.357 DEWC that I'm going to start using. I'll report.

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I believe in the wadcutter.

I found that 158 gr cast bullets , RN , SWC etc was not painful to shoot out of my 642 . I loaded them to just std 38 spl ballistics . I was at a private range where I could practice tactical shooting from fairly close distances . I was so focused on the drill that I didn't notice the recoil . If I was just " target " shooting , slowly , then it became more evident . Regards Paul

Years ago, when I didn't have much else, I carried a J frame with wad cutters.

148 Wadcutters are excellent in a Lightweight J Frame. The Winchester Super-X being the highest velocity brand per Lucky Gunner.
That HST 130gr +P HP is a wicked load performance wise, but recoil sucks in my 342Ti J Frame. If anybody wants to trade some of that HST for some Winchester Super-X Wadcutters or some .38 Colt Shorts or Magtech CBC ammo I'm game.
The .38 Colt Shorts are a great round in a super lightweight stubby. Magtech makes a .38 CBC which is another .38 Short. These are superb for somebody that is recoil adverse. They kick like a .32 S&W.

Round nose ball, are you referring to the infamous "widow maker" load?

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Merle, retired
western PA

Bullets do odd things. Sergeant Timothy Gramins of the Skokie Police Department shot a suspect 14 times with .45 ACP JHP. Suspect didn't go down until a round entered entered Suspect's brainpan and ended the fight.

Handguns suck at stopping people. They're carried for convenience since a rifle or shotgun is cumbersome.

If a power puff .38 wadcutter is all the OP can handle, it is better than harsh words and a sharp stick. Also, a .22 in the hand beats a .45 in the safe. But a rifle or shotgun ended fights much better.

FMJ, RNL, SWC, JHP, etc.... shot placement to critical areas and repeated hits until the threat is stopped is key.

Nothing more and nothing less.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

The .38 wadcutter is authorized by some agencies and is among the loads Dr. Roberts supports. I no longer have a .38 snub, but when I did, that's what I put in it.

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NHI, 10-8.

I recall Erich, who has worked cases where people ended up on the wrong end of a wadcutter, posting a while back that wadcutters tend to be very effective.

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Common sense isn't so common.

It’s excellent.

Wadcutter ammo cuts a great wound canal.

It cuts a .357 inch wound canal.

Why mess around? Purchase or handload a 158 grain semi wadcutter at standard pressure. It will do the same as any other load. It's what I'd do if I had to carry my Detective Special.

Reminds me of Michael Brown, Ferguson MO.

I have the autopsy report. One .40 JHP hit the right brow ridge. It did not penetrate but turned down at almost 90 degrees. It went through the eye, through the face, through the lower jaw, exited and hit the chest.

Question #1 ... NOT shooting / practicing with the ammo you are going to bet your life on is foolish ... why are you not shooting it is my question .

Question #2.... No state mandates / requires what ammo or type of ammo you use in self defense as a private citizen .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I doubt that you will notice or remember recoil during an defensive encounter. If you are worried about the effectiveness of the WC you might want to go with full power HP.

My dad's home defense round was a 38 spl hollow base wadcutter loaded backwards. But that was back in the day before all the high tech rounds. I wonder if that would be considered a hollow point in this day and age?

I'd be more in favor of a cast FB wadcutter pushed as hard as shooter can handle . Key on what shooter can handle . Go with what allows shooter to make rapid repeatable hits on target .
Looking at molds other day & saw some interesting ogival wadcutters that would be hard to beat especially 41 & above .

How a bullet works for self defense doesn't have anything to do with the weight or size of the pistol. A 148 gr. wadcutter does the same thing from a 2 in. "J" frame or a 2 in "N" frame. The speed will determine the damage it will do. If the wad cutters you are using is 1000 FPS they will be better for SD than bullets that are 400 FPS. What is the speed of your bullets? Larry

A lot of shooters ask what bullet is best for them and their gun, when......................

They should first find out how much recoil they can handle and put shots on target.............

Bullet weight, fps, and gun weight are parts of the puzzle, to this question.

A 158 gr bullet is nice but you may need a 90 gr XTP for your needs.

Yes, it's expensive but you must test your self-defense ammo in your gun. You don't want any surprises in a pinch.
Do not trust others' opinions of laws on a forum. You have already been given bad information. Some states do in fact limit your choice of ammunition, hollow point restrictions, I think.
Do not take my word for it though. Do some homework, the *** you save may be your own.

Please let me be a little obtuse with my answer. I have some experience with gunfighting as well as responding to shots fired calls and their aftermath. I will tell you that when it's for real, you'll always want a bigger and more powerful gun than the one you have in your hand.

If the recoil of duty ammo in your light weight revolvers is too much, upgrade to a steel J Frame with a 3" barrel to moderate recoil and then carry a good +P load. It will be money well spent should (we pray not) that you need to engage a hostile. Jacketed bullet technology is very good today and I'd take advantage of it. I don't know what grips you have on your revolvers, but a set of oversize rubber grips (if they fit your hand) might also help as they spread the recoil impulse over a wider area of your hand.

If you reload and want to stick with a lead bullet, a hard cast WC (solid base) or SWC over a maximum charge of powder would be a good option.

The average hit ratio for trained LEOs (and thus for most folks I guess) in gun fights is generally pretty poor so whatever you decide on... practice, practice and then practice some more. While it is now frowned on in police circles, practice with target WCs and then load with duty ammo. When it's for real with hot duty ammo you probably won't feel the recoil or even hear the report. Fire a few rounds of your chosen duty ammo to check the zero and function before going out and about.

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Keep your powder dry.

Question #2.... No state mandates / requires what ammo or type of ammo you use in self defense as a private citizen .
Gary[/QUOTE]

Incorrect. New Jersey does not allow ammunition with a visible hollow point...

Also Buffalo Bore and Underwood offer full power HC wadcutter ammo for self defense.

The joy of factory wadcutters is that they work as well as anything you can buy, but are easy to shoot. Loading them up to a crazy velocity kind of defeats the purpose.

If anyone can show me a shooting with a wadcutter that failed where a +P hollowpoint in the same place would have worked, I’d love to hear of it. I bet there are cases where a romper-stomper load missed and a nice sedate wadcutter would have hit.

I also reject the notion that handguns suck at stopping people. Handguns have the magical ability to stop an attack without even firing a shot! Its the “look, I have a gun” effect.

I know, the legendary 300 pound crackhead (that is 2 1/2 crackheads in my experience) will soak up bullets like a modern day Golem. I haven’t seen one. In all the shootings I’ve personally worked (not reading reports - there at the scene) not a single person continued their idiocy after being shot. With anything. Not one.

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Rule of law, not a man.

I am and will always be a fan of the 125gr .357s. Many of the old LEO articles when they carried .38 & .357 swore by them. I've got a 360 AirWeight and carry with Golden Saber 125gr. Muzzle velocity is above what a .38+p is but still runs around 1075 on the chrono. The Golden Saber bullet has a very good reputation as a man stopper and shoot to POA and recoil is very manageable too.

Just MHIO.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

The .38 SC cartridge needs to be better known, especially for use in .38 snubbies. I load them with 125 grain truncated cone lead bullets to around 1000 ft/sec MV for use in my Colt DS and my snubby M&P. Near-equivalent to a 9x19. Big advantage is that the case is shorter than .38 Special and extracts fully with the short extractor rods of the snubbies for rapid reloading. I think that .38 SC ammo may still be factory loaded, but as it comes from the factory, it is fairly anemic, about like the factory .38 S&W load. Reloading for better performance is the way to go.

You call those wadcutters? Now THIS is a wadcutter!

45 AUTO RIM +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo - 45 AUTO RIM +P Ammo - 225 gr. Wadcutter @ 1,125 fps - 20 Round Box

The advertised velocity for most standard 148 gr. wadcutter target ammo is 710 fps (out of a test barrel). Even if it makes that velocity out of a 6" target revolver - it will be closer to 600 fps out of a snubby. That is very slow.

For recoil sensitive shooters, I prefer standard(non- +P) HP ammo from 90-110 gr. at measured velocity closer to 800 fps out of snubby.

For my own use I prefer 125 gr. +P.

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6/23/2022

The 125 gr JHP is a great weight in the .357 Mgnum..........

if you are shooting it out of a 38 special snub nose, you shold put the ammo
into 4 water jugs to see if the bullet will open up and get to the 3rd jug.

Not all 125 gr JHP out of a snub nose are the best for SD work.............
if you select the wrong style bullets and they are on the slow side.

Just a heads up.