38 Auto

Retired W4

Retired W4

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I came into possession of 6 38 Auto rounds the other day and my copy of Cartridges of the World doesn't say much about them...Colt 1902, obsolete, etc. Any one know specifically what pistols were chambered for these rounds. The ones I have are a mix of W-W, W-Western, Rem-UMC, JHP and FMJ.
 
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.38 AUTO also known as .38 ACP is the predecessor of the .38 Super. The original guns were the Colt 1902. In 1929 Colt came out with the 1911 SUPER .38 which fired the .38 ACP. The velocity was boosted from the original 1080 fps to 1300 fps much like the .38/44 rounds is to the standard pressure .38 Special..

So really the .38 Super is nothing more than a .38 AUTO +P...

Bob
 
Exactly, but don't fire 38 Super in a pistol designed for .38 ACP/.38 Auto.
From Wikipedia (I know, but it's better than quoting something from Reddit): Colt M-1900, Colt M-1902, Colt M-1903 Pocket Hammer, Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver, and Webley & Scott Automatic Pistol were designed for the .38 ACP.
 
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I have a Colt Model 1903 Hammer. I do shoot it once in a while I reload for mine and keep the loads light so as not to damage the pistol Mine was manufactured in 1914, fun to shoot something that is 108 years old.
 
The older Colt semiautos as previously mentioned can be irreparably damaged by shooting modern .38 Super cartridges in them. They can crack the key slots in their slides, and I have seen many such cracked slides. On the other hand, newer .38 Super guns will handle .38 ACP ammunition, but may need a lighter recoil spring to function properly. The only older Colt .38 Auto I ever owned (a Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer), I reloaded for making up only very light lead bullet loads.

The same is true for the Colt Model 1905 .45 Auto. They should never be fired using today's modern .45 ACP cartridges. The initial version of the .45 ACP cartridge used a lighter weight (200 grain) bullet at a lower velocity.
 
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W4, As DWalt and others have indicated, that ammo is for the old 1900/1902/1903 type Colt automatics. I have an old .38 ACP Colt Pocket Hammer that is chambered for that round. Using a modern .38 Super pistol for initial testing, I developed very light reloads for the old gun. Interesting old guns, but I'm glad Colt semi-auto pistol development did not end with these guns...
 

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The 1903 Colt Pocket Hammer I had was one I picked up fairly cheap at a gun show back in the 1980s. I don't remember what I paid, but less than $100. It had been poorly re-blued and its grips were broken. I bought a pair of reproduction grips for it. It fired and functioned fine with my light reloads. I kept it for a few years and traded it off. Despite its low condition, it is among the many guns I wish I had kept as it had true character.
 
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.38 Auto and .38 Super brass are are of identical dimensions. Never assume that a cartridge case marked .38 Auto is actually that unless vetted. The Colt .38 Auto used a weak dual barrel link system. This old Colt .38 Auto is not intended for standard .38 Super and certainly not for .38 Super +P.
 
Today, I believe all .38 Super ammo is designated as +P, just to let the purchaser know it is not .38 ACP. Older .38 Super ammo did not have a +P included in the headstamp.
 
Imissedagain said:
It would be fun to shoot when we're 108 as well. :D
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If I ever make it to 108, somebody please shoot me.

AJ said:
Here is my M1903 Hammer. Like I posted I do shoot it from time to time. I also carry it once in a while. Looks like I have my Bible in hand and no one questions it.
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Like the warden told Andy, in Shawshank Redemption, "Salvation lies within".

DWalt said:
Today, I believe all .38 Super ammo is designated as +P, just to let the purchaser know it is not .38 ACP. Older .38 Super ammo did not have a +P included in the headstamp.
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The ammo boxes usually label .38 Super as "+P", and the case headstamp on the PMC brass I have says .38 Super +P; the Starline brass I just got says ".38 Super Comp".

The 1911 was the first gun chambered for .38 Super, and it makes a great combination. I've got a Rock Island Armory 1911 in .38 Super. I just got my reloading dies yesterday, and a big pile of brass and bullets came today.
 
.38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads.
 
stansdds said:
.38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads.
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After reading that, it got me to wondering just what the difference might be. I took my calipers and measured the depth of the case compared to a PMC case I had, and they are the same from the case mouth to the inside if the primer hole. I thought then that maybe the case wall was thicker on the Comp case, but the case walls measure out the same, at least as far as I can get my caliper down. Just eyeballing the two different cases (PMC vs. Starline Comp), they look identical on the inside. I think I'll email Everglades Ammo and ask them.
 
Hair Trigger said:
After reading that, it got me to wondering just what the difference might be. I took my calipers and measured the depth of the case compared to a PMC case I had, and they are the same from the case mouth to the inside if the primer hole. I thought then that maybe the case wall was thicker on the Comp case, but the case walls measure out the same, at least as far as I can get my caliper down. Just eyeballing the two different cases (PMC vs. Starline Comp), they look identical on the inside. I think I'll email Everglades Ammo and ask them.
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"38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads."

That seems to be correct. However, I once asked Starline about it. I was told the Starline cases are strong enough to withstand high pressure loads, and I have used them to load hot 9x23 Winchester-level loads with them. However the case capacity is greater than 9x23 Winchester brass which is designed for very high pressures and has a higher inside base. You might call Starline and ask.
 
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stansdds said:
.38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads.
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DWalt said:
You might call Starline and ask.
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I did email Starline and got an almost immediate response, plus I called a cousin who is a ranked IDPA shooter and talked to him, since .38 Super is a popular cartridge with those guys.

The .38 Super Comp case has a rim that is about 0.002-0.003" smaller in diameter than .38 Super Auto, making the case practically rimless, and is supposedly stronger in the case web area. When you put one of these cases side-by-side with a regular .38 Super Auto case, you may not even see a difference. I didn't, and even with a set of good calipers, the measurements are almost identical. Super Comp cases, with the slightly smaller rim, are supposed to feed and extract better, in some magazines even allow an extra round and in most guns will interchange with the standard case, since the 1911 chamber headspaces on the case mouth.
Case on the left is a Starline .38 Super Comp, case on the right is a PMC .38 Super Auto +P
 

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AJ said:
Here is my M1903 Hammer. Like I posted I do shoot it from time to time. I also carry it once in a while. Looks like I have my Bible in hand and no one questions it.
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Nice Bible!
 
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