I came into possession of 6 38 Auto rounds the other day and my copy of Cartridges of the World doesn't say much about them...Colt 1902, obsolete, etc. Any one know specifically what pistols were chambered for these rounds. The ones I have are a mix of W-W, W-Western, Rem-UMC, JHP and FMJ.

.38 AUTO also known as .38 ACP is the predecessor of the .38 Super. The original guns were the Colt 1902. In 1929 Colt came out with the 1911 SUPER .38 which fired the .38 ACP. The velocity was boosted from the original 1080 fps to 1300 fps much like the .38/44 rounds is to the standard pressure .38 Special..

So really the .38 Super is nothing more than a .38 AUTO +P...

Bob

Exactly, but don't fire 38 Super in a pistol designed for .38 ACP/.38 Auto.
From Wikipedia (I know, but it's better than quoting something from Reddit): Colt M-1900, Colt M-1902, Colt M-1903 Pocket Hammer, Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver, and Webley & Scott Automatic Pistol were designed for the .38 ACP.

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I have a Colt Model 1903 Hammer. I do shoot it once in a while I reload for mine and keep the loads light so as not to damage the pistol Mine was manufactured in 1914, fun to shoot something that is 108 years old.

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The older Colt semiautos as previously mentioned can be irreparably damaged by shooting modern .38 Super cartridges in them. They can crack the key slots in their slides, and I have seen many such cracked slides. On the other hand, newer .38 Super guns will handle .38 ACP ammunition, but may need a lighter recoil spring to function properly. The only older Colt .38 Auto I ever owned (a Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer), I reloaded for making up only very light lead bullet loads.

The same is true for the Colt Model 1905 .45 Auto. They should never be fired using today's modern .45 ACP cartridges. The initial version of the .45 ACP cartridge used a lighter weight (200 grain) bullet at a lower velocity.

W4, As DWalt and others have indicated, that ammo is for the old 1900/1902/1903 type Colt automatics. I have an old .38 ACP Colt Pocket Hammer that is chambered for that round. Using a modern .38 Super pistol for initial testing, I developed very light reloads for the old gun. Interesting old guns, but I'm glad Colt semi-auto pistol development did not end with these guns...

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It would be fun to shoot when we're 108 as well.

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The 1903 Colt Pocket Hammer I had was one I picked up fairly cheap at a gun show back in the 1980s. I don't remember what I paid, but less than $100. It had been poorly re-blued and its grips were broken. I bought a pair of reproduction grips for it. It fired and functioned fine with my light reloads. I kept it for a few years and traded it off. Despite its low condition, it is among the many guns I wish I had kept as it had true character.

Here is my M1903 Hammer. Like I posted I do shoot it from time to time. I also carry it once in a while. Looks like I have my Bible in hand and no one questions it.

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.38 Auto and .38 Super brass are are of identical dimensions. Never assume that a cartridge case marked .38 Auto is actually that unless vetted. The Colt .38 Auto used a weak dual barrel link system. This old Colt .38 Auto is not intended for standard .38 Super and certainly not for .38 Super +P.

Today, I believe all .38 Super ammo is designated as +P, just to let the purchaser know it is not .38 ACP. Older .38 Super ammo did not have a +P included in the headstamp.

If I ever make it to 108, somebody please shoot me.

Like the warden told Andy, in Shawshank Redemption, "Salvation lies within".

The ammo boxes usually label .38 Super as "+P", and the case headstamp on the PMC brass I have says .38 Super +P; the Starline brass I just got says ".38 Super Comp".

The 1911 was the first gun chambered for .38 Super, and it makes a great combination. I've got a Rock Island Armory 1911 in .38 Super. I just got my reloading dies yesterday, and a big pile of brass and bullets came today.

.38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads.

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AJ, is that case from Andrew's Leather?

After reading that, it got me to wondering just what the difference might be. I took my calipers and measured the depth of the case compared to a PMC case I had, and they are the same from the case mouth to the inside if the primer hole. I thought then that maybe the case wall was thicker on the Comp case, but the case walls measure out the same, at least as far as I can get my caliper down. Just eyeballing the two different cases (PMC vs. Starline Comp), they look identical on the inside. I think I'll email Everglades Ammo and ask them.

There are no markings on the case anywhere.

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"38 Super Comp brass, if I recall correctly, has more brass in the case head area to help contain the pressures generated by IPSC/USPSA 38 Super major power factor handloads."

That seems to be correct. However, I once asked Starline about it. I was told the Starline cases are strong enough to withstand high pressure loads, and I have used them to load hot 9x23 Winchester-level loads with them. However the case capacity is greater than 9x23 Winchester brass which is designed for very high pressures and has a higher inside base. You might call Starline and ask.

I did email Starline and got an almost immediate response, plus I called a cousin who is a ranked IDPA shooter and talked to him, since .38 Super is a popular cartridge with those guys.

The .38 Super Comp case has a rim that is about 0.002-0.003" smaller in diameter than .38 Super Auto, making the case practically rimless, and is supposedly stronger in the case web area. When you put one of these cases side-by-side with a regular .38 Super Auto case, you may not even see a difference. I didn't, and even with a set of good calipers, the measurements are almost identical. Super Comp cases, with the slightly smaller rim, are supposed to feed and extract better, in some magazines even allow an extra round and in most guns will interchange with the standard case, since the 1911 chamber headspaces on the case mouth.
Case on the left is a Starline .38 Super Comp, case on the right is a PMC .38 Super Auto +P

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Nice Bible!

Thank you.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

It was my understanding that the SuperComp case is just a rimless .38 Super... The reason for the creation of the round was because 2011s (double stack 1911s) don't feed reliably with the rimmed .38 Super case...

Starline has a good description of all their various brass cases on their website...

Bob

That might be right! It has been a long time since I was in USPSA and kept up with the cartridge cases and calibers being introduced for competition.

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It well may be, but a new Starline case seems to have a slight body taper whereas the .38 Super does not. I find them interchangeable, and use the same .38 Super dies for loading .38 Super, 9x23 Win, and Starline Super Comp.

The Starline SC case is also OK for 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr use.

I've used Starline .38 Super Comp cases for years. I've found them to be very sturdy, durable cases, even when loaded to 9X23 Win. levels. FWIW, I've loaded 9X23 Win. too. The 9X23 brass was designed to be used in traditional Colt type non-ramped barrels, that do not have case heads as well supported as the ramped barrels used by other manufacturers now days. The very beefy 9X23 Win. case heads provide a margin of safety in the non-ramped barrels, but the heavy case does have reduced powder capacity as compared with .38 Super/Super Comp and similar brass. It occurs to me that 9X23 Win. level loads developed in the .38 Super/Super Comp type brass likely produce less pressure than factory 9X23 ammunition due to having greater case capacity than 9X23 brass. In any case, I've not experienced any issues in loading modern .38 Super/38 Super Comp/36TJ brass to 9X23 Win. levels in my guns with well supported integral ramp type barrels. I would not have attempted this with the standard Colt barrels and vintage/thin case head .38 Super brass I started with back in the '70s.

I've attached a photo I attribute to Brad Miller on his old .38Super.net site showing sectioned 38 Super type cases.

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Assorted 38 Super cases.jpg (81.9 KB, 14 views)

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