I noted S&W is now advertising a Model 350 revolver in .350 Legend.

I’m dubious about doing a repeat of the .357 Maximum revolver debacle with a very similar rimless round, running at 55,000 psi when the top strap cutting and forcing cone erosion was already epic with the 40,000 psi .357 Maximum.

But that’s a different post….

Here I’m asking what is the deal with the .350 Legend and why launch a new straight wall cartridge when the existing cartridges out there fill the 200 yard deer role as good as or better?

I don’t know that the .350 Legend will do any better than the .357 Max out to a revolver, but the .350 Legend doesn’t impress me out of a 20” rifle or carbine.

A 170 gr bullet at 2250 fps isn’t stellar even for a 200 yard lever gun deer straight wall cartridge.

I get where the short case length might be a plus. Some of the states that limit rifle hunting to pistol cartridges are also now limiting the max case length of a pistol cartridge used in a rifle to 1.800”. However, most of those states also grandfather in previously legal straight wall rounds like the .375 Win, .38-55, and in some cases the .444 Marlin and .45-70. (Iowa, Ohio, etc.)

Indiana is about the only state I can see where the .350 Legend has a significant edge of hunting on public land as the .375 Win. .38-55, etc are excluded by case length and not grandfathered.

Performance wise, the .350 Legend, zeroed at 200 yards will have a maximum mid range trajectory of 4.8” at 110 yards and be 5” low at 234 yards. At 200 yards it will have a velocity of 1493fps and 841 ft pounds of energy.

In comparison a conservative factory loaded .375 Winchester will launch a 200 gr bullet at 2200 fps. With a 205 yard zero it will have a max mid range trajectory of 4.7” high at 115 yards and be 5” low at 243 yards. At 200 yards it will retain 1665 fps with 1241 ft pounds.

Consequently, at 200 yards that’s over 50% more energy, and a .379 unexpanded diameter to start with compared to .357 for .350 Legend. With a remaining velocity over 1600 fps the bullet will also be more likely to reliably expand.

The .350 Legend doesn’t exactly blow the .38-55 away either. Buffalo Bore also makes a .38-55 “heavy” load designed for modern 38-55 rifles that launches a 255 gr bullet at 1950 fps. Zeroed for 180 yards it has a max mid range trajectory of 5” at 100 yards and is 5” low at 212 yards. At 200 yards it retains 1304 fps and 962 ft pounds. Compared to the .350 Legend it has a little shorter maximum point blank range, but a little more energy, and a lot more momentum.

Even with a standard .38-55 load with the same bullet at 1600 fps the .38-55 looks good. With a 150 yard zero it’s 4.8” high at 90 yards and 5” low at 177. At 200 yards it retains 1101 fps and 687 ft pounds. The .350 Legend really only adds 50 yards of energy and trajectory to the standard jacketed .38-55.

(That relative performance is also a strong argument to lobby legislatures in states like Indiana to include the .38-55 as the .350 Legend is approved and the .38-55 has very similar performance.)

——

I guess my real question is why aren’t the .375 Winchester and .38-55 making more of a comeback in straight wall pistol cartridge restricted states, and what aren’t rifle and ammo manufacturers getting on board?

I’m also curious why states might approve the .350 Legend, and even allow its use in a semi auto and not approve the .38-55 in a lever gun?

The only reason I can see S&W chambering it in the X-Frame is because the round has become semi popular with the MSR crowd. The 350 has become so because it fills a niche in the AR market, and because of the straight walled limitations in some states. I know of no other heavy projectile cartridge capable of being chambered in an AR-15 other than the 45 and 50 cal rounds that give away too much in magazine capacity for too little performance. The 350 also uses a standard 5.56 AR bolt, unlike most of the other AR hunting calibers. The other advantage was Winchester offering an inexpensive plinking round right out of the gate. And that ammo was always available on the shelf when many if not most others were not.

My recollection of the 357 Maximum issue was around light for caliber bullets pushed at the very limits of pressure. The 350 could possibly have issue but not thinking this with sane/factory loading.
460 runs max of 10,000 more than the 350 and some lighter bullets. Not hearing complaints of strap cutting on the 460 in the x frame.

I understand the love for the 38-55. Back when I did hunt, I was a short range stalk hunter. More exciting for me to get really close for a shot instead of trying to hit ‘‘em a mile away.

In southern Michigan the case length restrictions exclude the 45/70 class of rounds, AR rifles are very popular, but won't feed 357 Max, and even tapered cases get a no go from our DNR. 375 Winchester is not on the acceptable list.

Idiots in charge of making the hunting rules in certain states are what made for the 350 Legend. Sabot loaded muzzleloaders making 45/70 power levels were just fine, but 30/30 Winchesters were far too powerful and too long range to use in the south. They make the rules though, we just have to adjust to them.

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Plastic has no soul

.....I guess my real question is why aren’t the .375 Winchester and .38-55 making more of a comeback in straight wall pistol cartridge restricted states, and what aren’t rifle and ammo manufacturers getting on board?..."


I think that is simply because 'old' doesn't sell.
Retro has a niche market, but it doesn't last for long.

Trying to get new shooters interested in the tried and true older cartridges is a loosing marketing/profit maker.

It's all the better if the cartridge can fit in an AR.

The stupid part is that a 458WM, or more powerful 450 Lott are perfectly legal in our “shotgun or straight wall” counties… but God forbid a 257 Roberts or 243W.

The 350 Legend is hugely popular here.

And available in cheap rifle - $349 for a usable Savage package including scope.

Why is easy…… it seems to be the only ammo available at every store and Walmart.

I don't understand the hubbub about S&W doing this (there's at least two threads currrntly on this forum). A major ammunition maker, Winchester, had already developed the cartridge, and evidently it has some interest in long guns according to articles I've read.

S&W already had a revolver capable of handling the cartridge, so why not make some for people that are interested.

It's not for me, but if a 170 grain bullet at almost 2300 fps won't work on white tails, someone forgot to tell the .30-30 and .32 Special.

If you are a fan of the AR-15 platform (a.k.a. the MSR) and a hunter living in certain States(?) having a pistol that shoots the same ammo is a definite plus...? Unless someone decides that your pistol would be a weapon of MASS DESTRUCTION!

CHEERS!

P.S. That pistol may cost a lot more than your rifle, BTW!

P.P.S. Thank GOD we don't get ALL the guv'ment we pay for!

Measure the length of the X frame cylinder and then compare that to the length of the cartridges mentioned. .350 Legend will fit (barely) and none of the others will.

Additionally you have to consider the current level of popularity of a cartridge. I picked up about 150 .350 Legend pieces of brass last fall. 3 straight visits to the range netted 2 or 3 boxes per visit. I don’t think I’ve ever found a single .38-55 or .375 Winchester case at the range.

A small course correction might be needed here, and let me point out it’s in the ammo forum for a reason.

I didn’t create this as a thread about the S&W Model 350, (although I question the wisdom of it given the issues with the .357 Maximum, but that is a topic for the other thread).

My intent here is instead a discussion of why the .350 Legend is popular in the first place as a rifle cartridge, when the .38-55 performs as well or better and the .375 Win is superior in all respects.

So far, it sounds like it’s a combination of:

- vagaries, inconsistencies, and incompetence in DNR regulations related to using straight wall cartridges for hunting rifles;

- the appeal of the cartridge as a medium bore AR-15 round, which is itself impressive as it would be one of the first times since the .38-55 when a medium bore round was successful in the US market;

- Winchester finally got it right, and unlike the .375 Win introduction, actually had ample ammo available when rifles became available; and

- the “new and improved” factor where new is supposed to be “better”.

Why was the .350 Legend introduced originally? Because it’s a .35 caliber round that works in the most popular rifle out there. You can buy a $300 upper, have it shipped to your home and you’re good to go assuming you already own a lower.

There are 100+ rounds out there that are more powerful. So what? At this point in time you could ask unless you’re coming up with something more powerful than 50 BMG why bother with any new cartridge?

I miss the .357 Max. I had a Ruger and Contender in it. Myself, I'd much rather have a straight wall rimmed cartridge than any similar round that headspaces off the case mouth.

I know the X frame is likely being sold as a companion for your existing rifle. Still carrying an X frame revolver along with your rifle platform of choice doesn't seem too appealing to someone my age.

An N frame/Blackhawk and a carbine is plenty for me.

Simple marketing ploy that may sell a few more of the mega frame revolvers.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

The big thing hand loaders need to understand is ammo manufactures don’t give 2 hoots about hand loaders. They are in the business to sell ammo. The 350 was designed to work in the AR platform first and foremost. It utilizes unnecked 223/556 brass which they all make by the zillions. It utilizes 9mm bullets which they make by the zillions. It is a new caliber for specific use in the Midwest states with a good crossover for home defense. Any rifle, semi auto, bolt, lever, single shot that can function with 223/556 will work just fine with the 350.
Now, since it’s inception the 350 has proven to be all that was promised. It’s easy to shoot, it’s greatly effective on deer, and even now it’s relatively cheap to shoot and medium game loads are @25$ per box of 20.
When it first came out I was buying 200 rd cases for 175$.

Older calibers like the 38-55 and 357 Max were abandoned by almost every manufacturer and suppliers years ago. If you can find factory ammo it’s ridiculously expensive. Compared to the 350 why would I ever consider something that is essentially dead. There is nothing wrong with them but if I can’t reasonably buy the gun and have to hand load all of my ammo what’s the point.

I built my first AR in 350 for 300$. That was a premium barrel and 3 mags. Since everything is built around a standard 556 these were the only parts needed. For that I had a solid 200 yard deer gun that I could and now again walk into any establishment in my are that sells ammo and walk out with either plinking loads or proven deer killing loads.

I use one to hunt deer in Ohio. If I still hunted in WVA I would have no qualms about using it there as well. I’ve had 3 one shot kills on big Ohio deer and have knocked the stuffing out of many yotes.
Time marches on and someone built a better mouse trap.

I read the Michigan regs found here:

https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Pro...fd7faf9c3f9bdd

Based on my read the .375 Win is legal and there is no mention of “taper”, just “straight wall”. That’s not the same as “parallel wall”. All the classic straight wall black powder cartridges like the .38-55 had a slight taper to facilitate ejection.

Given it is based on the 38-55, the .375 Win is no different, tapering from .420” at the base of the case above the rim to .400” at the case mouth. The .38-55 tapers a bit more from .419” to .392”, but the big difference for the purposes of the MI law is that the current case length on the modern .38-55 is 2.085” (and 2.125” for the old .38-55) while the .375 Win has a case length of 1.80”, just like the .460 S&W.

But here’s the kicker, the .350 Legend also tapers, from .390” to .378”, so it’s straight walled and also slightly tapered.

The .375 Win is legal, even if not specifically listed. If MI DNR is saying differently it’s wrong.

Technically, given how the law is written and based on cartridge case length:

“(d) A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.”

You could also trim a 2.105” .45-70 case back to 1.8” and it’s now legal. Hornady already uses short cases in its .45-70 Leverevolution ammo. Go a little shorter and you are good to go.

Bring a set of calipers to measure the case, if an officer questions you, and if he still cites you, insist he either take the cartridge as evidence or sign the case for identification later. You’re using a wildcat that’s legal. Call it the “.45-70 Michigan”.

——

Idiots however seem to run amok in Indiana where their allowable rifle cartridges are specified in a list and based on .243” and .308” bullet diameter, eliminating anything that isn’t one or the other of those diameters,

I can’t help but think a hyphen word “to” got lost in the writing of the law.

In the big picture it probably helps legitimize the AR-15 as a hunting rifle, although some states limit semi autos to no more than 3 rounds in the gun.

But my argument isn’t that every new round has to be more powerful, it’s just that the .350 Legend isn’t, and Winchester had a cartridge that filed the same niche in traditional lever action rifles, but did nothing to reheat it as an option, even though it still produces .38-55 Model 94s.

I have been considering a rifle in 350 Legend for a while now. Easily enough for our Coastal Blacktails. And if you handload, it can be loaded with a relatively light charge of pistol powder (Hodgdon gives a load with Titegroup) and 9mm FMJ to make a nice plinker in the off season. I do wish it was a true straight wall though.

I guess I don't really appreciate the LOGIC (or, significant lack thereof?) behind these types of regulations... What are they designed to provide? Who (or WHAT?) are they designed to "protect"? Where I can see some reason behind setting MINIMUM levels of lethality for game animals, what does the length of the case have to do with the firearms and ammo to be "allowed" (or, the PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA!)...?

Cheers!

350 was to cater to AR crowd and along the way new deer hunters could pick up a entry level bolt gun for about 50% of cost of legal lever gun. It’s popular cause low recoil.
I guess they need handgun to go with rifle in case they come under attack.
The restrictions in states like Ohio are flat out stupid. I can see that biggest part of state is flat that HV rifles would be a problem. Some muzzle loaders are higher velocity that a 30/30. I guess they have to have easy to understand laws so the DNR officers can understand them.

I think the idea behind allowing straight walled cartridges has to do with population density and the idea that a .270 would puncture a house miles away while a .44 magnum round would lose steam quickly. When I grew up in Illinois the whole state was shotgun only, supposedly for the same reason.

I’m intrigued by the .350 Legend. I wonder if the brass can be made to work in my Winchester 1907 .351?

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Rule of law, not a man.

If your question is why didn't Winchester just reheat the .38-55... probably because you can't feed a rimmed .38-55 through an AR-15 magazine.

Yep and because of that .350 Legend sells more ammo in a day than .38-55 sells in a year. A business isn't going to survive by just marketing 150 year old cartridges.

There are some that have used both the 350 and the parent .223 to make .351WSL brass.

Quite a bit of info on the net if you search 'Making 351wsl brass from 223 brass'

The case head is just a little smaller in dia than the real .351. Not so much as to cause a problem.
The real issue is that the .223/.350L is a true rimless case.
The .351WSL is a semi-rimmed case and that's what it headspaces off of so you can roll crimp the bullets into place.

Not having that semi-rim on the .223/.350 brass means that the extractor is holding the case in place on the face of the bolt.

It seems to work OK if the OAL of the case and the loaded round are kept correct or at least correct for your rifle in that the chambered rd seats w/o any front to back movement (excess headspace).

The .351 brass has a large tapered relief cut in front of the semi-rim on the case for the extractor to sit down fully when gripping the case.

Some say to recut the .223 extractor groove in the cases to match orig .351 ammo case spec. Others say there is no need to.

that's pretty much on target.
By and large the 350 Legend mimics the old 38-55.
Where the Winchester lever action needed a rim, the 38-55 fit the bill.
Today, the AR 15 is what the Winchester model 94 was. Naturally, it is being pressed into the same roles with such offerings as 300 blackout, 350 legend and 458 SOCOM
Therein lies a revival of the 30-30, 38-55, and 45-70 through these cartridges, in bottom feeder friendly form.

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it just needs more voltage

I'm looking intently upon the 350 Legend myself. It seems to have the right numbers for most woodland roles.

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it just needs more voltage

I understand all of that... however this is Michigan and our system is messed up. We have a DNR list of legal calibers, Winchester got the 350 on it, the others did not. As far as I know, to the DNR a tapered case is not straight wall, and could be at odds depending on the DNR Officer you encounter. Short 45/70 has been tried but as I understand it, accuracy was not there. If a manufacture came out with a lever action, 45/70 chambered for a 1.8 inch case they might sell a ton, but they have not yet. Most hunters I know are ditching their shotguns and muzzleloaders for the new straight wall calibers.

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Plastic has no soul

pssst ... 450 Bushmaster, 1.7"
Being AR platform, it's an upper and a mag.

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it just needs more voltage

I have not hunted in years so I don't know why I even bought a 350 or why I am posting in this thread....

That said, 450 BM is overkill for whitetail, horribly expensive, and hard on the shoulder. I have buddies that swear by it, and buddies that swear at it. In the end, what is the 450 offering that a 12 gauge sabot loaded shotgun is not?

The 350 factory ammo is much cheaper that 450 or sabots, reloading is just a little more involved than 357 magnum, and depending on what bullets you use, just a little more expensive. The round has much to offer.

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Plastic has no soul

A better effective range and extends the practical applications of the AR 15 platform. The rest of its advantages lie in whether or not you hand load.
Personally, I'll fill its role with my 1895 in 45-70, though I might entertain 458 SOCOM .. just because.

Agreed. Where I can cite 450 BM as an answer to limitations set by certain states, the 350 has good numbers for the role. I believe it'll be better to live with all around. As soon as I am able, I will be adding a 350 to the safe. 450 or 458? .. only maybe

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it just needs more voltage

That’s much of the reaction on my part that prompted the post. I like lever guns and I like ARs but for different things.

I enjoy the feel and fairly primitive nature of a lever gun shooting a black powder era cartridge for hunting in woods and brush.

I’ve never been able to get real enthused about hunting with an AR. That’s partly old school bias, but largely way too much experience with hunters who are horrible shots maiming game that I’d often have to shoot to humanely kill when the Fudd ran his rifle dry managing to only gut shoot it or break a leg.

Frankly, I don’t think equipping them with ARs will improve the situation.

——

I also get why some fairly populated states want to limit the collateral damage from bullets raining out of the sky on those missed shots.

But there are much better ways to set parameters. All of the old black powder era rounds still have trajectories that are pumpkin like, even with smokeless powders. Discriminating between an AR toting hunter with a .350 Legend and a lever gun toting hunter with a .38-55 or .375 Winchester is incredibly stupid.

Rather than defining cartridges using an overly short case length, it makes more sense to establish a *minimum* bore diameter and a *minimum* bullet weight along with a suitably low *maximum* velocity. You might have to specifically exclude a few large magnum cartridges, but once you do that, heavy bullets at suitably low velocities will always have suitably arching trajectories.

It also makes sense to write in suitable exceptions, like the .30-30. It’s not flat shooting and it’s one of the most popular and prolific deer rounds in history.

Yes... These regulations should be performance based rather than trying to regulate performance through cartridge design traits.
A 30-06 proofing blue pill cartridge was loaded to, I believe, 125,000 psi. The 1903 Springfield had to hold this that being the case, a straight wall standardized to 75,000 would soundly defeat the intentions of the cartridge trait based regulations.

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it just needs more voltage

I live in WA and bought a first-issue left hand Ruger American 16" in .450BM back in 2017. I live in thick woods and wanted something lighter than a Marlin Guide Gun. The only rifle requirement I'm aware of here is .24 caliber or greater, but the .450 is still fairly popular.

It may be overkill for the local whitetail, but it's a good round and I can take it out for bear too. Ballistically it's more or less identical to a 12g .45 sabot.

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Psalm 27:2

That is very well said. The 450BM is the straight wall equivalent of a 12 GA and the 350 is the equivalent of a 20ga. There are obviously differences but this is how we view it in Ohio.

Probably true enough in factory loads.
Upon more in depth review of the 350, it seems to be like a hyper active 38 super at the loading bench. It'll take either 9MM or 357 bullets.
115G HP @2800FPS might be a heavy varmint round or low carry over home defense. Not sure how a 115 XTP or gold dot would actually play in HD, but if employed against a skunk, the stink would likely be the only evidence remaining.
From the other end of the food chain, 180ish @ 2200FPS is a sound equation for a deer slayer and probably a fair bit more.
With all the territory to explore between the 115G point A and 180G point B, It promises more color than most

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it just needs more voltage

-----
Beautiful post with my own thoughts spelled out.

Prescut

Well, I have mine now and am off to the gun club tomorrow. Will post a range report.

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The 350 Legend will go the way the 30 Super Carry, the 327mag and all of the other cartridges that have been lost to time. 50 years from now you will be able to go onto some future version of the website and see a S&W 350 Legend pistol for a ridiculous price because it is a rare collector gun that has hardly been shot.

This is one rabbit hole that I won't be going down. I am already going down the 460 Mag rabbit hole.

I hope there is a S&W forum with handguns for sale 50 years from now. That said, the 350Legend has already caught on around here for deer. Revolvers, we will see.

No it won't. 30 SC and 327 FM were launched into the CCW market where its 38 380 9mm or 45 in accordance with the gospel
350 answers a hunting regulation problem while extending the practical applications of the AR platform rifle. It's quickly gaining a reputation as an easy handling straight wall deerslayer

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it just needs more voltage

Hunting regulations can change. If the DNR thinks someone with a 30-30 lever action is too dangerous I doubt they will think an AR chambered in 350 Legend is fine. Many people that should know better would consider that "an ultra powerful assault rifle".

The future never seems to turn out the way I expected it to. I would buy what works best right now and not worry about if it will still be a viable choice 50 years from now. Not being a hunter I am going to pass on the 350 but might buy a 30 SC if it is chambered in the right gun. If I was a hunter in a state that doesn't allow bottleneck cartridges I would be looking at a 350.

It’s done quite well so far as a rifle cartridge, and it’s gained acceptance as a hunting round.

On the other hand, mid caliber .35 rifle rounds have historically not done all that well.

The .351 Winchester, the .35 Remington and .348 Winchester pretty well bracketed the range of power in .35 caliber lever guns, yet the .35 Rem barely hangs on and the others only lasted about 30 years.

As noted before the .375 Win was badly introduced (rifles but no significant ammo availability for 2-3 years after the rifles showed up) and also targeted a mid bore market that historically hasn’t been a thing in the US since the .38-55.

The .35 Whelen is an exceptional round by any standard, and yet it’s never been a huge commercial success.

So..I’m skeptical about the .350 Legend’s long term prospects, especially in our modern marketing environment where newer is better.

The odds are there will be a .375 WWF or something equally stupid that will catch the public eye and the .350 Legend will be yesterday’s news and quickly become an orphaned cartridge that makes all those .350 Legend rifles reloader only propositions.

Given almost all of them are AR-15s where you can swap barrels and move on to something else, owner loyalty won’t be strong.


I’m dubious about the revolver. I have seen ballistics numbers in 12” AR pistols and they are around 1950 fps, and someone cut down a 25” barrel in 1 inch increments to 7” and velocity for the 145 gr load drops from 2380 fps to 1900 fps.

That’s a slightly bigger hit than what I saw with 220 gr bullets in my 20” BB 94 and 10” Contender - velocities falling from about 2350 fps to around 1900 fps.

In an 8” revolver it’s going to be be a 145 gr bullet at around 1800-1850 fps once the cylinder gap comes into play. That’s still just .357 Maximum performance, and I suspect it will be just as hard on forcing cones given the operating pressure.

The 460 and 500 S&W are rated at 65,000 and 60,000 PSI. Higher than the 350 and 357 Maximum. And I haven't heard any complaints about forcing cones or flame cutting.

Part of that is probably design. Better materials and the X-frame was designed from the ground up to handle powerful and high pressure cartridges.

Part of it might be usage though. I remember the 357 max being popular with silhouette shooters that put a lot more high power ammo through their guns than someone that wants an extremely powerful gun for the range or hunting.

Even if the 350 revolver is a short lived product there are enough rifles out there to keep loaded ammo and components available long term.

I bet S&W sells more X-frame revolvers to people want them because they are the biggest handguns you can buy than they do to people that actually hunt with them or use them for bear defense. A non-reloader that has always wanted a X-frame revolver for the range but was scared off by the cost of 460 or 500 ammo might buy a 350 revolver just because the ammo is 75% less expensive.

I'm also combing through available load data for 350L.
The problem with most 35's is the oddball rifle bullet which is typically something like a 250 grain slugs. And that's all you got.
This one is either a 357 or a 9mm bore, much like the 38 super. As such, it's born into a very large family with no shortage of playmates.
I think it will earn its keep in agile carbines as a kinder gentler brush gun.
In a revolver... I suspect it'll be a novelty, though the contender guys and silhouette shooters might take a polish to it as well.

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it just needs more voltage

Limited bullet selection was an issue with the .375 Win as well. Winchester made 200 and 250 gr factory loads and suitable 375”

Hornady used to make a 220 gr round nose soft point bullet for handloading butnits been discontinued.

Currently Speer makes a suitable 200 gr flat nose, and Barnes makes a 255 gr flat nose soft point, both perpetually out of stock.

Vollmer Precision has started making 200, 220 and 255 gr bullets for the .375 Win, but he’s perpetually back ordered as a one man shop.

——

There are some AR guys looking to develop a “.358 Legend” chamber reamer that will allow the use of factory .350 Legend ammo using .355” bullets, as well as handloaded .358” bullets in the same cases, presumably with a larger expander ball.

That will at least open the door to some of the heavier .357” bullets out there - up to about 158 grains for jacketed bullets and up to 200 grains for gas checked cast bullets.

If I remember correctly the 350 Legend was created for those states who only allow hunting with straight walled cartridges. It fits that bill well but I'm not sure about the 350 in a handgun.

Hey, I guess if hunters can use the 45-70, the 30-30 and the 450 Marlin in a Magnum Research BFR why not the 350 Legend? (or X frame) That type of hunting just isn't for me but I don't think it's wrong for other who want it.

Where I live there are no restrictions against normal rifle cartridges so I can shoot the 30-30 and 45-70 from a levergun or the 30-06 in my bolt action rifles for deer.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Because there isn't the 30/30, 460 mag, 500 mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull.......

Still don't think the 350 Legend will be a long term cartridge.

5 rimmed cartridges in a mag fed world ...
Lets look at the 30-30 ...
This was state of the art and rose to the challenge along with the rifles that wore its roll stamp, The Winchester model 94.
the 30-30 was nearly always cartridge enough while the 94 was dependable and pleasant to use. This combination skyrocketed to the being Americas rifle. For generations, it won it's popularity contest, and nearly everyone had one.

Something I did not expect to happen, did.
The patent for the AR 15 ran out and it has replaced the Winchester Model 94 for the title of Americas rifle.
Will a 30-30 feed in an AR 15? ...
No .... but the 300 blackout will.
Will a 460 magnum, 45-70, or 454 feed in an AR 15?....
No .... but the 450 bushmaster and 458 SOCOM will.
Will a 38-55 feed in an AR 15? ...
no ... but a 350 Legend will.
Between .223/5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 300 Blackout, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM and 500 Beowulf, the AR 15 has evolved to address virtually every need from prairie dog popper to moose missile.
The 350 Legend is part of the continuing body of work that has made this phenomena so.
It is designed around a wildly popular bore, lending to it an extensive array of suitable projectiles, and addresses a legal requirement imposed upon those hunting in a handful of states.
Of the many cartridges that have been tried, more thought went into the 350L than any of them.
It's going to stick.

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it just needs more voltage

Pre-1980 Colt only sold about 10,000 AR-15s per year and SGW /Olympic Arms was about the only other player, and they didn’t sell that many either. But after the 1994 AWB numbers exploded and it’s normal to sell upwards of 1.5 million in some election years. There are now more modern sporting rifles in the US than Model 94s and Marlin 36/336 rifles combined.

I didn’t see that coming either back in the 1980s.

From time to time I’ll respond to face book posts promoting a ban on AR-15s. I’ll point out their sporting uses and what a I’ve done with them (service rifle competition, practical rifle competition, Varmint hunting, general plinking, and home defense), and I mention their growing use as hunting rifles.

Invariably I get accused of not being a hunter if I think an AR-15 is a hunting rifle.

Some of that is probably just non gun person ignorance, but then again in the 1970s when I started hunting and into the 1980s it just wasn’t considered ethical to use a military style semi a auto for medium/big game hunting.

It wasn’t logical then as someone could use their Remington semi-auto with a scope attached and no one would bat an eye. However, if I showed up with my M1A Supermatch, with or without scope and a legal for hunting 5 round magazine it would draw some serious side eye.

In some parts of the country that prejudice hasn’t changed and AR-15s are still not seen as hunting rifles.

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On top of that of course we have a growing PR problem. Mass shootings are still rare. School shootings rarer still, with about 6 times more kids dying in school bus accidents every year than in school shootings. But they get massive attention. Even though MSRs are only involved in 16% of mass shootings they get 100% of the blame.

And of course Americans like easy simple solutions. We as a herd conveniently ignore the reality that for every complex problem like gun violence there is a simple, easy…and wrong…solution. However we’ll jump on that rather than address the social and economic issues that really underpin violence in the US.

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But to be fair, there is a grain of truth in some of the anti-gun rhetoric. Like it or not, we do have a defiant sub culture within the larger gun culture, where Meal Team Six or Gravy SEAL type guys in tactical gear pose with their MSR on a social media and then make some stupid comment about being ready and willing to use their gun to defend <insert whatever here>.

99% of them are just blowing smoke and inflating their own egos. But unfortunately some young, impressionable, unsuccessful and poorly socialized youth wanting acceptance and over control over something sees an AR-15, AK or similar MSR as his ticket to both. A small percentage of those become are future mass shooters.

Even though there are are 20 million MSRs in the US and maybe 10 million owners, less than a half dozen are used in mass shootings per year. But those 5 or so individuals threaten the rights of the 9,999,995 owner that don’t engage in mass shootings.

But those facts don’t matter. We as a community need to rein in that small percentage of gun owners who make the rest of us look like ignorant, irresponsible, careless, individuals who should not be allowed to have MSRs.

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That’s also the wildcard for the .350 Legend. On one hand, properly promoted as a responsible, Elmer Fudd endorsed hunting rifle it can make great strides in cementing the sporting purpose of the AR-15.

But we’re still just one poorly timed mass shooting and one election away from seeing them banned. We need to start being a little more proactive in terms of both policing our own community and educating non gun owners in a positive way.

Legend has it the lever action repeater drew much the same shade in the muzzleloader/BPMC era.
Not sure what their equivalent to meal team six would have been.
I've always had an appreciation of the MSR, but never really considered them as practical. Certainly not at the time I took notice of it's growth.
We were just recovering from another ammo crunch and I was strategically looking for calibers no one wanted. The ones I affectionately call the wheezing geezers. 32-20, 30-30, 38-55, 45-70 and others of the ilk. Seemed easier to keep these fed in the clutch than current mainstream cartridges that were always sold out.
Didn't work out quite that way this last time, but that's a different discussion.

A conspicuous blackness descended upon the rifle rack where walnut and camo used to dominate.
The AR was taking over. Fun rifle to be sure... I could see it as a varminter and range mistress... 300 whisper was cropping up in certain circles as was some 6. Something spc...
I didn't really understand that the work had begun, and the platform was going to be embraced and developed far beyond it's strictly specified cookie cutter origins.
We're here now, and it can be had as a bolt action if one so desires. I've even heard of a pump action conversion.
Work has been done, and is still being done.
I'm quite impressed by it to be honest

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it just needs more voltage

As I understand it the lever actions caught on very quickly. The Native Americans were early adopters much to Custer’s chagrin at Little Big Horn.

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It’s very much a multifaceted process to create a success with several things having to align at the same time.

I thought Ruger was on to something with the Mini-30 as it offered .30-30 ballistics in a similarly light, handy package - a modem Model 94 of its time.

However the missing piece was a lack of suitable ammo. Ammo manufacturers and in particular US ammo manufacturers never quite got on board with it. At the time we were awash in cheap surplus FMJ ammo selling for around $79 per crate - about the same price as an SKS at the time.

Ruger was capitalizing on the cheap ammo but also had trouble selling Mini 30s against the SKS competition.

Ammo manufacturers didn’t see much market for a hunting round that would sell for a lot more than the surplus FMJ, until 7.62x39 became an established deer hunting cartridge.

And it couldn’t become an established deer hunting round until there was sufficient availability of suitable hunting ammo.

Even today, people still ask if it’s legal to hunt deer with a 7.62x39.

Against all that, on top of prejudices against semi auto hunting rifles, the Mini-30 has never taken off as a deer rifle and that’s a shame.