Underwood .44 Special Question

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Murphy55

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Specific ammo in question...

Underwood .44 Special 200 gr. JHP (Speer bullet)
Product SKU #321
Advertised velocity = 975 fps
Advertised energy = 423 fps
(does not state the test barrel length)

Does anybody use this ammo?

Is it within the SAAMI chamber pressure limit of 15,500 psi for a .44 Special firearm?

Thanks for time and help with this!
 
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A friend used this load to shoot a mountain lion. The legendary gold dot bullet didn't expand. After recovering it from the cat, you could have loaded it and shot it again. Fluke???
 
The Gold Dot JHP bullet design has been known to not start to open up
on several calibers.

I don't know if it was due to the fps on impact, the copper make up or
the batch from the company, but it does happen now and then.

I have a 125 gr 38 special GD shot from my 38 snub nose, into water jugs
that never started to open up
and yes, it could have been loaded again but I have it in my collection of bullets.
 
Murphy55 said:
Specific ammo in question...

Underwood .44 Special 200 gr. JHP (Speer bullet)
Product SKU #321
Advertised velocity = 975 fps
Advertised energy = 423 fps
(does not state the test barrel length)

Does anybody use this ammo?

Is it within the SAAMI chamber pressure limit of 15,500 psi for a .44 Special firearm?


Thanks for time and help with this!
Click to expand...

Give Underwood a call or an email with the question!
 
Although this product no longer appears on their current website, Midway refers to it as "Bull Dog 44 Special". (This possibly has to do with it being appropriate in a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 Special?). It used a Speer bonded (GD?)JHP. No warnings about not using this ammo in any particular application or firearm. There are quite a few positive reviews of this specific product.

Their claimed velocity is reasonably close to Hodgdons load data for a similar 200gr JHP (Nosler) using 7.5gr 800-X, 972 fps @13,500 cup. It's doubtful Underwood had any problem coming up with a suitable flash suppressed powder mixture. I load 200gr JHPs at this level for both my Ruger SBH & my Bulldog.

Why would one presume this doesn't (didn't?) meet SAMMI standards?:confused:

Cheers!
 
I have been using Underwood .44 Spl. ammo for several years. My ammo is Underwood number 323, and is 245gr. flat nose FMJ, listed on the box as 950 fps, but chronograph shows about 975. It seems quite “stout” but I only use it in a 6” model 629 (pinned barrel) .44 Mag, so I haven’t worried about the pressure.
 
If I happened onto some,
I would shoot it in 44 Mags and newer Specials like this one.
No Way Jose in my older 44 Specials!
 

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STORMINORMAN said:
Although this product no longer appears on their current website, Midway refers to it as "Bull Dog 44 Special". (This possibly has to do with it being appropriate in a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 Special?). It used a Speer bonded (GD?)JHP. No warnings about not using this ammo in any particular application or firearm. There are quite a few positive reviews of this specific product.

Their claimed velocity is reasonably close to Hodgdons load data for a similar 200gr JHP (Nosler) using 7.5gr 800-X, 972 fps @13,500 cup. It's doubtful Underwood had any problem coming up with a suitable flash suppressed powder mixture. I load 200gr JHPs at this level for both my Ruger SBH & my Bulldog.

Why would one presume this doesn't (didn't?) meet SAMMI standards?:confused:

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your valuable feedback, I appreciate that.

I should reveal more about why I'm asking these questions...

I'm trying to determine if this factory cartridge is considered to be a Plus P loading, unsafe to fire from a Charter Arms Bulldog 2.5" revolver.

I use this ammo in my S&W Model 29, of course with no issues, but I'm not totally sure about firing them from the Bulldog.

I see you mentioned you do use it in your Bulldog, which gives me hope...

Thanks again, have a great day!
 
You are welcome. But...

Please note that I didn't claim to have actually fired this specific ammo in my Bulldog: just that I reload and shoot a similar 200gr JHP at close to that ammo's velocity.

Buffalo Bore has some 44 Special loads that they specifically state are NOT to be fired in a Bulldog, along with others that are appropriate.

If the box for the Underwood ammo in question doesn't state that it is anything other than 44 Special (i.e., lacking some "+P" designation) I would tend to believe them.

Cheers!
 
Underwoodammo.com used to offer two loads utilizing the Speer Gold Dot 44 Special. Don't remember the first one having a title but it had a warning not to use in Charter Arms Bulldogs. That load was discontinued a few years ago. A second load was called the Bulldog load and was fine for Charter Arms. Currently they don't offer any loads with the Speer Gold Dot. Maybe discontinued or just out of stock/production currently.
 
About the expansion failure, what wad the approximate distance and temp? I really like the GD bullet but not all GDs are the same.
 
Bullet weight will have more to do with frame stress than velocity. This is based on the simple "momentum" formula used to derive "power factor". For example, a 200 grain bullet at 975 fps has a power factor of 195, compared to a 250 grain bullet at 800 pf of 200! Yowza!
Charter Arms advises not shoot bullets over 200 grains because there isn't any reasonable factory load that can drive the bullet fast enough from the 2.5 inch barrel to overstress the frame, and of course they won't cover damage created as a result of shooting hand loads.

The mentioned Underwood load is quite potent but because of the light bullet, placing less strain on the frame than it would seem.

I have some handloads using Blue Dot that shove a Matt's 250 grain soft-swaged hollow cavity out the muzzle at 799 fps average and you absolutely KNOW you've just touched off a potent load. Delivering around 354 foot-pounds of kinetic energy, it's matching garden variety .45 auto power from a GI size gun. In the chronographed string, the highest recorded speed was 881 fps/431 fpe with a pf of 220 - greater than .45 ball ammo by far.

My Charter Arms Bulldog did NOT self-destruct with such loads, but then I limited them to testing, and backed the load down 2/10ths of a grain to an average of 764 fps/324 fpe which may not seem like much but is quite noticeable.
 
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