Is there any commercial 45-70 ammo that is mild enough for a Trapdoor Carbine?

I'd like to shoot mine but don't reload any more.

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Paul
Salome, AZ

The basic 405 grain load from Winchester and maybe others is low velocity, low pressure and should be safe in a Trapdoor as long as your gun is in sound, good condition; no excessive headspace, etc.

Avoid light bullet loads as they are usually loaded to higher pressure and maybe some of the 405 gr. loads are as well. The standard pressure 405 load has a muzzle velocity of around 1300 fps. That's what you want.

Cowboy action shooting ammunition ought to work. If you can find any....

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Come and take it!!

I’ve been told that most of the factory loaded stuff is loaded to pretty low pressures because of the high likelihood it will end up in one of the many trapdoors out there. I’d look for some of the 405 grain stuff from one of the major ammo companies.
Froggie

There are currently 3 manufacturers advertising online. Price for 20 rounds is +/- $50.00. All sites indicate ammo is available, but check on additional costs for shipping, sales tax, etc.

HSM Cowboy Action
45-70 Govt - HSM-45-70-2 - 405g RNFP Hard TLG - 1300fps Rifle

Black Hills Cowboy
45-70 Govt - 405g RNFP - 1250fps Rifle

Fiocchi
45-70 Govt - 405g RNFP - 11850fps Rifle

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Thanks a million

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Paul
Salome, AZ

PMC has a .45-70 Cowboy Action listed in a 2019 GUN DIGEST. I think it has a 405 grain bullet, but velocity is 1500 fps or more. Surprised me as I thought all cowboy action loads were supposed to be anemic. It may be safe in a trapdoor, but I'd look for something just a little milder.

That would be good, safe ammo, but at such prices, I'd sure be casting and handloading.

Stick to Cowboy loads to be safe. You don't want to shoot jacketed bullets in a nice trapdoor barrel.

Back in the days I was shooting several guns in .45-70, I used 500 grain lead bullets and a case full of Pyrodex. Worked fine in two trapdoors. BP was too messy.

The original military .45-70 rifle and Carbine loads used 500 grain bullets with BP. Later military .45-70 ammunition used in carbines had lighter loads.

You have that backwards.

Original Arsenal load in 1873 was a 405 grain lead bullet over 70 grains of powder. When that proved to heavy for personnel, the powder charge was changed to 55 grains with the same 405 grain bullet. To take up the space left by removing 15 grains of powder, the Arsenal inserted a cardboard tube. They also added the letter C to the headstamp so it was discernible from the rifle load. Later to make it easier to load, cardboard wads were substituted for the tube, and the C remained on the headstamp. The third and final solution was to not load any wads, seat the bullet on top of the powder and because the cartridge was now visibly different from the rifle cartridge the C was omitted from the headstamp, saving yet another step.

It was the Sandy Hook Trials of 1879 that caused the change from 405 grain bullets to 500 grain bullets. It almost caused the Army to introduce a superior cartridge, the 45-80-500. Stockpiles of 45-70 rifles and ammunition caused them to cut back the charge of powder and length of the cartridge.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

If it’s marked government it’s safe

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Bob
Sic Semper Tyrannis

If you intend to use 500 gr. bullets, remember to change the OAL of the load by adding .2 of an inch.

Regards,

Tam 3

Not correct. Almost all 45-70 ammunition is called Government. Here is just a couple examples that you should NEVER SHOOT in a trap door.

Grizzly Ammunition 45-70 Government +P 300 Grain Bonded Core Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20
$75.00

CARTRIDGE 45-70 Government +P
GRAIN WEIGHT
300 Grains 20 Round
MUZZLE VELOCITY 2400 Feet Per Second
MUZZLE ENERGY 3838 Foot Pounds

Another is found here: 45-70 Government +P 305gr. Xtreme Penetrator(R) Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

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Gary
SWCA 2515

And Buffalo-Barnes 300gr...

And Barnes Vortec TX 300gr...

And (probably) Buffalo Bore 405gr Standard Pressure...

Etc...

Ya' know, I think taking up reloading (again) might be the answer?

Cheers!

I have both a 45-70 and 45-90. I shot some factory loads and found them to give mediocre accuracy. I alway have reloaded these big old rifle calibers, finding that bullet weight, powder brand, powder charge, etc. had a big influence on accuracy of a particular gun. Finding the most accurate load for one rifle will not assure the same load will shoot well in another gun. Reloading allows one to experiment until finding the best load for each rifle you own. I can now consistently hit a 12" gong with a tang sight at 300 yards with my 45-90 Sharps reproduction and am still working on finding the best load for my 45-70 Model 1886 reproduction. This is half the fun of owning one of these guns.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Got 20 rounds on order. With the shipping the price was pretty close to a hundred bucks. I'll have to just shoot it on special occasions. :-)

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Paul
Salome, AZ

OMG!!!

Buy yourself a Lyman tong tool or similar and start reloading!

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I forgot about the Tong tool. I used to reload right at the range many years ago.
I got rid of all my reloading stuff some years back.

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Paul
Salome, AZ

I still have my tong tool and quite honestly, it satisfies all my reloading needs for rifles. Handguns, not so much. I still have a Dillon 450 and a Dill 550. I have access to a couple of Dillon Square Deal presses dedicated to a specific cartridge. I shoot the 45 ACP and 38 S&W Special and the 44 Colt most, many hundreds a year. 9mm, I have enough to last me until I die, I don’t shoot much of them.

Rifle stuff,

22 Hornet, maybe 50 a year.

405 WCF, 8 rounds in the last 30 years.

50-70 Gov’t, 15 rounds in the last 20 years.

I can even keep my 32 WCF revolver happy with the tong tool.

And, should I need to, I have 310 dies for the 45 ACP and the 38 S&W Special. If it comes to that, I won’t be shooting many.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.