halvenut
US Veteran
Forgive me if this has been discussed before but does frangible Ammo harm your guns barrel?
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Frangible Ammo
- Thread starter halvenut
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SGT ROCK 11B
Member
No sir. The PD I retired from; requires all shooting on our range to use frangible ammunition. That way no harm is done to the range.
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DWalt
Member
There are several different types of frangible bullets. Most are composites of copper in a polymer matrix, and some for use in rifles use a metal jacket with a copper composite core. All military services are now using frangible ammunition for training use, both rifle and pistol. It solves many range problems. I was in charge of converting the USAF to the use of frangible lead-free ammunition nearly 20 years ago. See: Federal Gets Huge Contract for 5.56 Frangible Training Ammo << Daily Bulletin There are several significant inaccuracies in that article, but I won’t pick nits.
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Green Frog
Member
Shooting galleries at the fair and boardwalk used frangible lead bullets in 22 rifles for years and we don't hear about those barrels exhibiting undue wear, even though they fired many thousands of rounds a year. The only problem is the "Greenies" or their ancestors scared everyone about the lead dust in the air. Has anyone heard of an abnormally rate of lead exposure related cancer among among carneys?
Froggie
Froggie
DWalt
Member
The .22 shooting gallery bullets were frangible but they never contained any lead. They used powdered iron in a phenolic resin matrix.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Have had no problems with Sinterfire bullets in both 40 S&W and .224...
The Polycase/ARX bullet is also one of my favorites in the pistol calibers. Lucked into a good supply when they changed their packaging years ago...
Cheers!
The Polycase/ARX bullet is also one of my favorites in the pistol calibers. Lucked into a good supply when they changed their packaging years ago...
Cheers!
Mike in Reedley
Member
We should return all lead to where it came from, the earth. One round at a time.
DWalt
Member
Sinterfire was one of the early frangible bullets sold. Made out of compressed copper and tin powder. There was a company in Nevada as I remember called West Coast Bullets that made very similar bullets. Another was Delta Frangible Ammunition, I think their bullets were copper powder in a plastic matrix. They sold bullets to Winchester. At one time I had tested every frangible bullet known to man. Sinterfire was the winner, and I believe it is still used in the military 9mm training round. The 5.56 Military frangible bullets used are from Cesaroni, a Canadian company. It uses my bullet design and performance specifications and is loaded by about every manufacturer in the world making frangible 5.56 ammunition. See: http://www.cesaroni.net/docs/LFF_Data_Sheet_2022_v1.pdf Not well known and never advertised, but the frangible 5.56 round has been tested in combat to a very limited extent. It was found to be lethally effective against humans. Like instant death.
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Green Frog
Member
I remember those shooting galleries on fairground midways and beachside boardwalks with great fondness. I like the memories so much I use a picture I took of the NRA museum’s gallery as wallpaper on this iPad. With the use of sintered iron bullets, the EPA shouldn’t have an air quality problem, so we’d just have to overcome the objections of the Fun Police to begin to do all of this again…. The noises of the banging guns and clanging steel targets would once again blend in with the cacophony of sound on boardwalk and midway! 
Froggie
Froggie
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elpac3
Member
After a quart of Jack and three packs a day, lead exposure is the least of their worries
DWalt
Member
Part of the reason shooting gallery .22 cartridges used iron powder in a thermoset plastic matrix as bullet material was that they completely pulverize to dust upon impact with the steel targets. No fragments to ricochet, no injuries to customers, and they do not damage the targets. The other reason was that the bullets spark a little upon striking the steel targets. Customers liked that. The bullets were very light, I think about 15 grains, but driven at a fairly high MV, in the high teens, producing a hint of supersonic boom to add to the excitement.
Having once tested some gallery .22 Short cartridges many years ago, I found that they were somewhat inferior to lead bullets in grouping performance. But that was no big deal for use in a short range shooting gallery, where all a customer needed to do was hit a 3” diameter steel target 15 feet away.
Having once tested some gallery .22 Short cartridges many years ago, I found that they were somewhat inferior to lead bullets in grouping performance. But that was no big deal for use in a short range shooting gallery, where all a customer needed to do was hit a 3” diameter steel target 15 feet away.
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30-30remchester
Member
Read a report of a police officer's memoirs. He stated that the first murder he investigated was a man mad at his ex. Beating on the exterior door and not allowed in. He was persistent to the point the ex-felt threatened. She grabbed her 22 rifle and the only ammo she could find was gallery 22 shorts. One shot through the closed door and he never moved again.
DWalt
Member
Nobody said frangible .22 bullets couldn’t be lethal. Back in the late 50s-early 60s, both Remington and Peters sold the .22 gallery loads under the names of Remington Rocket and Peters Thunderbolt over the counter, packed in 28 round cellophane-wrapped flat packs instead of boxes. They worked fine for shooting rats and squirrels. Probably would do a number on humans also, with a hit in the right spot. I grew up shooting mainly .22 Shorts (not too often Rockets or Thunderbolts), and found that they can be very effective on smaller critters. And back then, they were much less expensive than .22 LRs. My favorite .22 rifle, then and now, is a Remington 550-1. It functions as well with .22 Shorts as it does with .22 LRs.
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When we shot rats at the dump we really wanted 22LRHPs but it all depended on how many softdrink and beer bottles we could find for the deposit or whatever work we could scrape up. Those gallery loads were really cheap... But not very accurate. They killed rats really well. Most farms had granaries and a cat and rat gun. They usually got the gallery or shorts to shoot rats in their bins. Have they disappeared? Gallery loads I mean. I haven't seen them in years
I have not seen a .22 Cap in over 14 years but I have seen shorts
in Std. and hi-vel. at the ammo stores, a while back.
SV 22 Shorts are still being made by CCI for use in all the older 22 short target pistols, among other manufacters. A few guys I bullseye shoot with have High Standards and S&W 41s in 22 Short. One even brings in his HS space gun sometimes.
Green Frog
Member
Back in the Halcyon Days of Olympic Rapid Fire, those “Space Guns” from High Standard were all the rage. There were even some factory modified examples (extra porting, etc) that lessened the felt recoil down to virtually nil. I’ve never seen or shot one of the Mod 41 short variants but I’m sure they would also be pretty much recoil free.
Froggie
Froggie
DWalt
Member
I have a High Standard Olympic Rapid Fire pistol, .22 Short. At one time the Olympic rapid fire event was exclusively .22 Short as it was a speed competition, and there is nearly no problem with recoil recovery. Later, the Olympic rules changed to require using .22 LR pistols, so the early .22 Short pistols are no longer used in Olympic competition.
My HS is absolutely 100% reliable with .22 Short SV ammunition. The slide is made of lightweight aluminum alloy in order to function under the mild recoil of the .22 Short SV round. I still enjoy shooting it, have a fairly large cache of SV ammunition for it.
My HS is absolutely 100% reliable with .22 Short SV ammunition. The slide is made of lightweight aluminum alloy in order to function under the mild recoil of the .22 Short SV round. I still enjoy shooting it, have a fairly large cache of SV ammunition for it.
I used one of the short slides on a HS with a kinda smooth bore bbl to shoot the old 22 bird/snake/mouse cartridges. Worked great for the most part with a light spring. cycled too. Worked great on bumblebees around the barn.Someone gave me 5000 rounds of that ammo years ago. Still have a few hundred left
