Have an inherited 1951 s&w 38 special ctg pre model 10 revolver. Already wasted money buying wrong ammo online at ammo.com.

Please help me find the correct bullet.

I know they are hard to find.

Dave

Are you talking .38 S&W Special or .38 S&W? They are different calibers.

The appropriate.38 Special for the time period would be 158 grain lead round nose. For .38 S&W it would be 148 grain lead round nose.

What kind of ammo did you buy? Stick with standard velocity loads and don’t buy the +P stuff. SGAmmo has lots in stock. For your revolver I’d stick with standard 158gr round nose lead bullet rounds or 148gr midrange wadcutter ammo. All the manufacturers make these.

Good luck!

You title might be a little misleading.

There are six "38" types of ammo and one needs to not gather the names together,
which might cofused people.

There is the :
short colt
S&W
AMU
Super
Long Colt and
Special

all .38 caliber but all with a different size case.

A photo of the ammo box you bought would really help here.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

S&W Nyclad .38 sp?

38 Special ammunition has gotten a little harder to buy than a few decades ago, but outfits like Target Sports, Lucky Gunner, etc. still have a halfway decent supply and many of the current configurations. Gun stores have really culled down their inventories on 38 special as the round has rapidly fallen from their once king of the hill position. The 9mm cartridge is now the king.

My suggestion would be to but what you need for the long run! Get yourself some self defense ammo and some target shooting loads as well. Might as well buy it while you can, I doubt the prices will drop but he availability might.

10 box = $200
New Republic Training and Range 38 Special Ammo 158 Gr FMJ FP - Ammo Deals
1 box = $45
Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Ammo 125 Gr +P JHP - Ammo Deals
Another $30 for tax, ins, shipping.

Not the best prices but great service. Enjoy that classic shooter. Joe

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Behavior Creates Destiny

Might wan to add the nominal calibre as 38S&W is 0.361 versus 38 Special at 0.357 Dave_n

Dave, this is what you need.

I was careful to post it correctly and took it right off the barrel.
Here is a pic.

.38 S&W Special ctg (cartridge)
The struggle I have is that the appreciated responses thus far would likely have me buying the wrong ammo all over again. Just being honest. Sorry.
I thought I bought exactly that but it turned out to be 38 special ammo which of course doesn’t fit.

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No sir. Won’t fit.

.38 Special is .38 S & W Special, the factory developed the cartridge so they put their name on it.

Unless the gun has been altered or parts swapped, any .38 Special ammo should fit in your .38 Military & Police revolver. How do the ones you bought "not fit" - won't seat fully, won't insert at all, rattle in the chambers? Are the cylinder charge holes clean?

Again, please post a photo of the ammo you bought, the box and a round with a ruler near it?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

.38 Special is the same as .38 S&W Special.

.38 S&W is different. Maybe somebody swapped cylinders on your gun as .38 special should work on the gun that is pictured.

If .38 Special won't fit your revolver, then either the barrel or the cylinder has been changed. Or, just possibly, the chambers of the cylinder are really crudded-up or corroded.

Are you SURE what you bought is labelled .38 Special? Or just .38 S&W? And how does it not fit? Won't go in the chamber at all? Or, goes in but not all the way?

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Pisgah

Take it to a gun shop and have them figure out what you need.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I am trying to help, so please do not assume I am talking down to you as it is not my intention to do so, but 38 Special is the same as 38 S&W Special. Those two are absolutely interchangeable.

38 S&W, on the other hand, is not the same as 38 S&W Special and 38 Special.

The picture you posted appears to be a “standard barrel” as opposed to a heavy barrel used on the Pre-Model 10 or Model 10, also known as the Military and Police.

As others have said, the caliber marking on your barrel signifies your revolver can shoot 38 Special or 38 S&W Special, as those are interchangeable. If 38 Special will not fit in the charge holes of your clean cylinder, then it is possible an incorrect barrel was installed on your revolver chambered in 38 S&W, which is not the same as 38 Special.

I'm curious as well about what exactly you mean by "won't fit" ? Will they not go in the cylinder at all ? Too long ?

What exactly is wrong ?

A photo of the back of the cylinder might help. Also, let us know if the serial number on the back of the cylinder, bottom of the grip frame and bottom of the barrel match. there is a remote possibility the cylinder was sleeved to 32 S&W long, Highly unlikely but stranger things have happened.

Much confusion over the years about cartridge designations. Prior to the 1950s most major firearms companies (Colt, S&W, Savage, others) manufactured guns primarily for their own proprietary cartridges. Those who offered guns chambered for a popular cartridge developed by another company were reluctant to allow the competitor's name to be displayed on their firearms.

.38 S&W Special is one example. Developed by Smith & Wesson as a military and police cartridge having greater power and powder capacity than earlier .38 caliber cartridges (.38 S&W, .38 Long Colt, etc). For some reason (probably potential military contracts) the development consisted of a lengthened .38 Colt Long case, which was then the standard US military handgun cartridge.

Colt and other makers quickly jumped on board with revolvers chambered for the new cartridge, but adopted the simplified moniker of .38 Special so as not to offer a nod to Smith & Wesson.

If the OP's revolver won't accept SAAMI-spec .38 Special ammunition the most likely reason is chambers in serious need of cleaning and removal of accumulated carbon and leading deposits. Another possibility would be damaged chambers, such as rust or pitting from poor maintenance.

More remote possibilities might include a revolver with a non-standard cylinder installed (.38 S&W cylinder from another M&P or Victory Model in that chambering), or defective ammunition (such as reloads with improperly sized cases, seriously oversized bullets, deformed case mouths from improper crimping), or perhaps a damaged extractor star installed.

I would start with a thorough cleaning and inspection of the chambers. I have found several older revolvers that had never been properly cleaned, but responded nicely to simple bronze bore brush, good penetrating solvent, and normal maintenance procedures.

Beyond that, an experienced gunsmith is likely to identify any mechanical problems with a few minutes of inspection.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

Ok. This is my scenario. The bullet fits to this point which is just after the load. Every chamber is same. No buildup is visible.

Hope the pics help.

Cylinder matches gun butt. Not sure what the L number is on the frame.

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Your picture of the ammo box clearly shows 38 S&W Short with a 145gr. projectile.
That is NOT what your revolver appears to be chambered for. You bought the wrong ammo.
You need 38 S&W Special, aka 38 Special ammo.

I've never seen a box of ammo marked "38 S&W Short" before. Have you tried stuff marked "38 Special"? Either that ammo you have is oversize, or there is some Khyber Pass shenanigans going on with the gun.

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Release the Kraken

Lol. Exactly what I stated in my post… good grief.

Scroll up to see barrel pic. Thanks.

You did indeed buy the wrong ammunition for your revolver. The ammunition you showed above is .38 S&W, not .38 Special. The .38 S&W cartridge is slightly greater diameter than the .38 Special, which is why it will not fully seat in your chambers. Any .38 Special ammunition will work in your revolver and is not difficult to find. There is no difference between .38 Special and .38 S&W Special, other than S&W's desire to associate their name with a cartridge designed by D.B. Wesson in 1899 and for which they still chamber revolvers.

If you want to shoot the type of ammo that was being sold in 1951 for your gun, the 158 grain lead bullet loadings are still being made by several manufacturers. Jacketed bullet loadings will also work well and are available from 110 to 158 grains. I would avoid +P loadings, which are slightly higher pressure and much higher cost.

.38 S & W (Short): case diameter .386", length .760", bullet diameter .361".

.38 S & W Special: case diameter .371", length 1.155", bullet diameter .357".

So you will find the .38 S & W rounds stick out about .400" from your .38 Special cylinder.

The good news is - .38 S & W ammo should be easy to sell, it is made in batches and months to years can go by before it is available.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

That’s not correct.

If the box label does not say "Special" or "Spl" somewhere, it is not .38 S&W Special ammunition. .38 S&W Short = .38 S&W.

.38 S&W Special is commonly referred to as .38 Special. One and the same. This is not to be confused with.38 S&W, a shorter more anemic round.

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otis

I never knew that ; always more to learn!

The pic of your cylinder clearly shows chambers for the 38 Special, also know as the 38 S&W Special.







I have never seen that either.
I suppose they are trying to make it clear it is not 38 Special ammo.
Did not work very well, did it?


That stands for 'LISTEN' to these guys. They know what they're talking about.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I vaguely remember someone said .38 s&w short was something made for the gamers for quicker reloads. There is a thread here somewhere I think. Of course I could be thinking of something else.

Did some thread searching, it was .38 special short I was thinking of.

OP, I know you are frustrated and please dont take this the wrong way but in your original post, you said the ammo was hard to find. .38 special is not hard to find so I think this is what confused people until you posted a pic of the ammo box. No need to get short, everyone is here to help but sometimes its hard for us to comprehend what is typed out.

This is .38 special "short."
38 SPL-Short 125GR LRN - Magtech
Different from:
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 38 S&W Short Ammo 145 Gr FMJ - Ammo Deals
Joe

__________________
Behavior Creates Destiny

Waiting for somebody to start a thread on what "8mm Mauser" really means.

__________________
Release the Kraken

JS or what?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Final answer. OP has revolver chambered in 38 S&W Special, also known as 38 Special. OP purchased incorrect ammunition. Solution: purchase correct ammunition.

For the record I was admitting that I bought the wrong ammo and was trying to make sure I didn’t repeat. Thanks

Well, it is Fiocchi ammo so maybe the Italianos got a little confused when they labeled that box, or maybe that's what they call it in Rome. It should be just 38 S&W, which is actually a cartridge from the dark ages when they were loaded with black powder.

Here's a pretty good history of the 38 S&W cartridge, which is what you purchased. The designations are all over the place.

The .38 Smith & Wesson: History And Performance | An Official Journal Of The NRA

And no, it won't fit in a 38 S&W Special chamber. The cartridge case diameter is greater. So the mystery is solved. Just buy some 38 S&W Special ammo and you're GTG.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Amen! Thanks.

You Betcha.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Some "Gamers" shoot the 38 Short Colt case that is only .765" in length
vs the 38 special case at 1.155", since they load and eject faster,
being just a shortened down 38 specil case.

Since the SC was designed for only 13,000 PSI for the original revolvers,
one needs to not put any high pressure loads, where they might find a old revolver or top break.

The 38 S&W case is only .775" in length but it is rated for
14,500 PSI, with it's .361 Dia. lead bullet, which was not designed to be used in a 38 special, revolver.

Oh, let's go for Siamese 8mm Mauser rifle ammo to really muddy the waters.

__________________
Release the Kraken

I can remember when they use to make those into .45-70's.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Duplicate Post

Looks like in trying to make sure that consumers got the correct ammo, Fiocchi made it more confusing, OR that's what they call it in other countries. Notice on the attached that the Specs list it simply as .38 S&W.

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Back when, a lady from a large Country Family moved to a big city and a married an Urban Dude.
They come to the country for Christmas and the Slicker is invited to join them on a Quail Hunt.
His Wife tells him it would be appropriate for him to buy some shells.
So at a local Country Store he asks for Shotgun Shells.
They have 12, 16, and 20s. Which one do you need?
Not being sure which ones they use, he bought a box of all three!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Bottomline, forget the S&W, just buy a box of .38 Special ammo, and go shooting.

The 45 Cowboy Special is for the gamers in SASS. Its a 45 ACP case with a 45 Colt case head. Great light plinking lot.