.44mag WWB ammo split cases. What to do.

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bczrx

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Hello,

Like a fool I went to the range with my new to me 4" 29-2 and no range rod.

I started with cylinder of Winchester White Box that I believe is 'new old stock'. I bought it from a retailer who had his ammo set up into 4 categories: New, Professionally Remanufactured, New Old Stock [from someone's estate when they died, for example] and Amateur reloaded.

This was in the section of New Old Stock.

It fired fine but felt pretty stout. More recoil snap than I expected.

Keep in mind my frame of reference is comparing this to: Ruger SRH 7.5", SBH 7.5" barrel, SBH 5.5" barrel.

I assumed the stout feel was due to the light weight. I've never fired a .44mag with less than a 5.5" barrel before.

However, when I went to eject the shells nothing happened.

I tapped the ejector rod a couple times and the star lifted the rounds a bit, but two were stuck. I removed 5 of them there without tools but had to wait to get home to remove the 6th.

When I did I saw that it had a longitudinal split about 1" long.


I am now wondering if the ammo may be overpressured, or if this is a known concern for WWB .44mag ammo from 5+ years ago?

Or is this a matter of oversized chambers allowing the brass to expand too far?

I am debating what to do.
Fire it from my SRH?
Or pull the bullets, save the powder and reload in better brass?

If I pull the powder, does anyone know what type of powder WWB uses, so I can reference it for reloading?
 
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I'd venture to say that the splits are a combination of chamber size & the brass, not over-pressure.

I've never had "too hot" handloads damage the case that way but they will always have severely flattened primers.

I've had "tired" brass handloads split like that even though they were standard pressure.

I'd try them in your Ruger if the primers aren't severely flattened.

.
 
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oink said:
I wouldn't fire any more of those until you find out what happened. A split case like that can erode the chamber easily. I'm guessing those are actually somebodys reloads. I would never shoot non-factory reloads I didn't load myself.
Click to expand...

I'm in this camp too. How can you be sure the LGS didn't mis-classify someone's "hot" reloads as NOS ammo?

FWIW, the only times I've ever experienced brass that wouldn't eject because it split down the side of the cases were

1) reloads of over-worked old brass that had been reloaded an unknown number of times

OR

2) a damaged cylinder on a model 15-5 that I bought in an auction - that I later found had a "stretched" cylinder (presumably from firing REALLY "hot" reloads). Here's a link to that thread.
Cylinder replacement?

If there is even the slightest possibility that your revolver may have been damaged like my 15-5, I would start by VERY carefully examining every chamber of your 29-2 with a bright light - both inside and out - looking for a chamber that has any irregularities - like cracks or fractures.

If all 6 chambers look absolutely 100% perfect, inside and out, then I would suspect that the problem is ammo-related. Maybe the LGS you bought the ammo from may have *thought* the ammo was NOS, but it may have actually been someone's "hot" reloads.

JMO and YMMV...
 
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There are several points, not the least of which is several statements made above are absolutely wrong!

Cases absolutely do not split because of high pressure, they split because they do not have the ductility, usually from work-hardening as a result of several reloadings. The cylinder supports the cartridge unless the pressure is so high as to damage the cylinder. Overworked brass does not spring back as does new brass, resulting in hard extraction.

The cylinder cannot be damaged by a split case, period! Does the throat of the chamber become eroded because of firing, where the gasses are free to bypass the bullet at high velocity and pressure? The answer is no. Use a little common sense and quit repeating what you "read somewhere", just because it "sounds right".

NOS ammunition is new ammunition, it doesn't deteriorate sitting on a shelf in the box in any way that would cause embrittlement of the cases. Anything that would damage the brass can readily be seen such as corrosion or exposure to Mercury. With Mercury the brass tends to torn white! And, ALL of the cases would split!

Are you familiar with re-loaded ammunition? The operations of re-loading leave distinct characteristics on the brass that should be readily apparent when compared to what you know is new factory ammunition, there is no way to conceal them!

Just because the ammunition was in a Winchester box is no guarantee the ammunition was loaded by Winchester. The most likely issue is the ammunition you had problems with is not NOS, but has been re-loaded and the cases are fatigued. Because of this do not pull the bullets and try to re-use the propellant from that ammunition, you have no way to know what it is and guessing or assuming what the powder is can be very dangerous!!! You can re-use the bullets if they are not badly damaged, but throw away the powder and cases.
 
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I have found many of my handloaded rounds of .44 magnum ammo in Winchester brass with longitudinal split cases in their boxes after sitting in a closet in my house. They were fine when loaded but split later. I just pulled the bullets and saved them and the powder. Never happened with Remington cases. Just a batch of poor brass in my opinion.
 
Does the split start at the cartridge mouth? Another potential cause is poor annealing. Contact Winchester with pictures of the ammo and box with lot number. Seen this happen with many brands with new, commercial ammo, Federal 32 H&R magnum being the most recent. They replaced it.
 
At the very least you need to pull a few bullets and look inside the cases. You will be able to tell instantly if it's new brass or previously reloaded. If there's clear evidence that it has been reloaded you need to pull all of them and discard the powder.
 
Pull the bullets, dump the powder and reload with a known powder in a charge to your liking. Throw the old powder on the flowers and water it in. I will not shoot other folks' reloads. Also always carry a 'range rod" with you.........
 
I'm in the camp of this "New, Old Stock" ammo actually being someone's DIY reloads. I know when I started reloading, not having plastic ammo boxes, I reused factory boxes and trays for my reloads. I expect there are plenty of reloaders out there that will use factory ammo boxes until they are worn out.

I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of a business selling ammo of unknown origin. Seems like very risky business to me.
 
Alk8944 said:
Anything that would damage the brass can readily be seen such as corrosion or exposure to Mercury. With Mercury the brass tends to torn white!
Click to expand...
How would cases get exposed to mercury?

I know this is a little off topic but I have to ask. Its not like most people have a big bottle of mercury lying around these days. Its now classified as a hazardous substance and has the same shipping restrictions as gunpowder or primers.

Do some people still use it for removing leading from barrels? I know this was fairly common in the past but thought most people use other methods these days.
 
I would say the brass is the problem..in the pat Winchester had some brass problems...Even shotshell brass would split. O would shoot some on the Super Redhawk...or whatever. Look ar the primers on the unfired rounds...make sure they are all the same...If the cases look new it is probably factory. If you have brass splits in the other gun ..get the lot number and contact Winchester...If there was a problem with that lot they will know..If you pull the bullets the powder will be onr of Winchester's 296 varieties
 
I only shoot WWB 240 JSP IN 6 different 44s. Handguns and rifles. Never had a split case from factory load.
 
stansdds said:
I'm in the camp of this "New, Old Stock" ammo actually being someone's DIY reloads. I know when I started reloading, not having plastic ammo boxes, I reused factory boxes and trays for my reloads. I expect there are plenty of reloaders out there that will use factory ammo boxes until they are worn out.

I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of a business selling ammo of unknown origin. Seems like very risky business to me.
Click to expand...

They probably have a disclaimer up somewhere to remove their responsibility in you shooting the ammo! CYA!!
 
If I got reloads in estats quite often In smaller quantities I would pull the bullets and reload the cases for my use. In one estate I got 4000 38 specials that were obvious reloads I pulled the bullets on 50 weighed the powder...Red Dot BTW. I shot 500 just plinking. All worked fine. Took the rest to a gun show sold the rest to one fellow as components and were to be torn down...he agreed ans signed my rules of selling. In that same lot I got over 1000 9mm...all factory loads in ruined boxes. There was a house fire.... when they put the fire out all the boxes were black from the soot. I also got 2 1100 Rems and an 870...blackbut they cleaned up fine. 500 of the 9s were Speer Gold Dot and the rest were Federal hollow points. I kept all the 9s. Still have some. That soot falls out of the air with the steam created by putting the fire out. Unfortunately the fellow died from smoke inhalation there were 1000s of rounds of other ammo too. 300 roundsof Winchester 30-40 Krag...abput the same 7mm Rem Mag...I did bot have those caliber rifles. Luckily the fellow had all his reloads marked with all pertinent info. He was a conscientious reloader I checked and shot the calibers I had
 
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Examine an unfired and fired round or post a pic here and many are willing to give you our thoughts on it being a reload or a factory round.
 
Alk8944 said:
There are several points, not the least of which is several statements made above are absolutely wrong!
....
The cylinder cannot be damaged by a split case, period! Does the throat of the chamber become eroded because of firing, where the gasses are free to bypass the bullet at high velocity and pressure? The answer is no. Use a little common sense and quit repeating what you "read somewhere", just because it "sounds right".
....
Are you familiar with re-loaded ammunition? The operations of re-loading leave distinct characteristics on the brass that should be readily apparent when compared to what you know is new factory ammunition, there is no way to conceal them!
Click to expand...
You are wrong, period! Split cases can most certainly damage a chamber. I've had two experiences with it.

The first I can't pinpoint the exact incident as I'd loaned it out more than once to deputies that needed a gun (before agency issue). After having it returned I noticed an erosion in one of the chambers. I was initially a bit peeved but I really don't know when it happened although I haden't noticed it previously. I've shot more than a few exotic handloads through it over the years. Light 380 HP bullets at high velocity are very dramatic when they hit stuff. Gallon jugs are very cool. Against hard stuff they disintegrated leaving just dust.

Well I sent it back to the factory for warranty repair. I eventually got it back with a new cylinder and a bill. I don't recall the actual charge but I found it very reasonable as they repaced the cylinder and extractor/star. They stated in the paperwork that the chamber had been eroded/damaged by a split case.

In the second incident I was shooting a Taurus G2, using up assorted old ammo. Some did have some surface corrosion that I didn't think was serious. Anyhow, I looked down at my pile of brass and noticed one had split. Being concerned I looked in the chamber and observed a good size area of erosion leaving a broad depression.

I called Taurus to purchase a new barrel and found out they won't sell them and that I had to send it in for repair. For the cost of shipping, the barrel and the service charge I figured it made more since to just buy a new Taurus, considering how much those guns were going for. Meanwhile I polished the snot out of the eroded area and subsequently experienced no extraction issues. But the split case most certainly did erode the chamber.

Clean once fired brass run through newer clean dies can leave very few marks. I suspect I could still tell it was reloaded if I looked closely. However they might pass a 1st glance test.
 
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