I have a model 36 and a Victory model Smith my wife likes to shoot.What would be the best non + P 38 special load for defense? I think back in the day when LE carried 38 specials it was a 158 gr. lead bullet.Thanks PJ

I carry Buffalo Bore std. pressure 158gr lswhp's. Very powerful stuff for non plus p. It is safe for older guns. It shoots well in my model 12-2. Highly recommended.

The non+P Federal nyclads have a good rep, and it is what I use in my M38.

__________________
Formerly know as Lucky Derby

"Nyclads"? Aren't they the dreaded "cop killer" bullets? And were they not banned long ago?

Nope. Your likely thinking of the Black Talons. The Nyclads were really well respected rounds that were discontinued. There were several loadings. Federal recently re-introduced the standard pressure 38 special load.

__________________
All Rights Reserved

My wife carries a 442, and +P is way too much for her to handle in this gun.

I decided on full wadcutters for her. Now before you jump in that these are weenie rounds (and they are compared to some other choices), consider these points.

She can control the gun and place her shots where she wants them to go, repeatedly.

The sharp-shouldered wadcutter design will cut veins and arteries cleanly rather than just pushing them aside. Good blood-letter.

The presentation of a gun alone is usually enough to deter an attack. But if she has to fire, she can place repeat shots accurately, more important than missing with more powerful rounds.

I carry +P in MY 442, but the recoil is vicious; no way could she use the same round effectively.

Food for thought.

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Amigo, if you ever wind up in court, you might want to keep that one to yourself.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

There's no particular reason that you can't fire +P ammunition through a model number stamped Model 36. Personally, while I wouldn't necessarily pick a Victory model for a defense gun, I'd shoot it through that too. FBI type 158 gr SWCHP through the 4" and the same in Remington's version or else Speer 135 gr short barrel loads through the snub. Rem UMC 125 gr JHP from Wally world in a pinch if that is all you can find or afford.

Otherwise either Nyclads or Hornady's standard pressure 158 JHP I suppose.

If you want wadcutters, you can get them in tracer format from Midway. That way if they fail, at least the sight on them incoming will scare folks.

Can't go wrong with the Nyclad or BB loads.

+1 on the Nyclads.

__________________
Misty

They were designed to reduce airborne leading. RecentThread

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Buffalo Bore 158gr low flash soft lead hollowpoints. For true defense you could use the same in +p's without damage to most guns.

Any 158gr LSWC-HP load will do well.

__________________
Stay safe people!

For defense? A 4 in. Model 19 for me, and a USN Victory model for my wife ! 158 gr. RNL Federal .38SPL works well in both. 158 gr. JSWCHP .357s in a 6 in. Python, or 175 gr. JHPs in a 4 in. 57 just in case I need more !
"FEET-movin', or FEET-first, Pal !"
BT

Any particular reason that you opted for 158gr RNL? Those have a habit according to most sources of just burrowing a hole straight through rather like 9mm ball.

Wadcutters or standard pressure with the Barnes copper bullet.

I like 148 grain Full Wadcutters, not Semi-Wadcutters.

Available online, as most stores don't stock them.

The last boxes I purchased were the Fiocchi brand. (good ammo)

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I use Winchester standard 158 LSWCs. I carried the same style only in 357 in my Model 28 in my LE career, now in 38s in my 642.

Equals the velocity I get out of my SWC loads I use in ICORE. I've used the WW 38 LSWCs for everything from rattlers to coyotes, even used it to put down a horse.

I used that bullet in my 357 to kill several moose (moose vs vehicles while a cop in Anchorage). Also killed a buffalo with the 357 version.

Accurate, mild, easy on both the revolver and shooter (me).

At one time it was popular to load 148 g wadcutters backward, with the hollow base forward. This was claimed to be an excellent defense load by many, including the much respected Skeeter Skelton. I have no experience with this load, maybe someone who knows can give us some info on it.

Oops, sorry, posted about KTWs before I saw that had already been addressed.

I like either hard cast full wadcutters or Nyclads for standard pressure loads. DoubleTap makes a nice Match Wadcutter load that uses a hard wadcutter at a higher velocity than most factory HBWC loads, but loaded lighter (and cheaper!) than the Buffalo Bore load.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...sCsid=afneznoc



I suspect that you are thinking of the old KTW bullet, which had a teflon coating (typically green or black I think ) over a tungsten bullet. The teflon was used to keep a very hard tungsten from damaging the rifling. As I recall they Cop Killer hype was just that; one officer with killed with one after being shot in the head.

Nyclads use a blue nylon coating to lubricate a very soft lead bullet and reduce lead contamination / vaporization / etc.

Two types of Full Wadcutters.

1) Hollow base (the one you were referring to being loaded backwards) that the base base swells up with the pressure of the charge and seals better in the barrel. When you load them backwards it's acts like a big hollowpoint with expansion.

2) The DOUBLE ENDED FULL WADCUTTER, that has both ends alike, kinda looks like a little soup can. A target bullet that leaves a perfectly round hole for scoring the target, but it does the same when it creates a wound channel.

I like the Double Ended 148 grain as it's not loaded heavily unless you reloaded it that way, and is easy on recoil. The ladies like it in the SNUBBIES.

Many bullet types are available today that were not available in the olden days. Thanks to Research and Development many bullet choices exist today to give everyone a wide variety of bullets to experiment with both with commercial ammo or the load your own variety.

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

+1
also, you dont have to worry about non expanding hollow points...DEWC come out fully expanded..

I like and have used for many years Federal Hydra-Shok, but the latest innovation is Hornady Critical Defense, 110 grain, available in both +P and standard loadings. A novel bullet design that penetrates what it has to and then expands when it should.

__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I had a similar question here on the forum few weeks ago and after reading online and some shooting on the range, I went for the Corbon 38 special +P 110gr JHP (velocity: 1050fps, energy: 269ft/lbs).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With my 638 I carry the Buffalo Bore standard pressuse 150 grain wadcutter. The speed loader has the BB standard pressure 158 grain SWC-HP.

__________________
I believe in the wadcutter.

This:
50 rd box - 38 Special Remington Express 148 grain Wadcutter Match Ammo | SGAmmo.com

Any Nyclad will give excellent terminal ballistic performance and will be well inside the pressure standards for minimizing wear & tear and for ease of handling. I prefer the hollow point variety. I believe they are sold in 2 weights. There is also a round nose.
If you like, you can load Hornady hollow base wadcutters to similar perfomance for practice rounds. The Hornadys also make a decent defense round in their own right.
For all practical purposes, I wouldn't want to take a hit from any of 'em.

Good thinking Paladin.The wadcutters perform the same through clothing,too,cutting a caliber size wound path. It's really an effective load for an airweight gun,and as you say allows for fast repeat hits with good control. I'd have no problem carrying them,and have done so in the past.Always good penetration.

__________________
Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

Some loads to consider (depending on the mission at hand):

148gr Federal Gold Match wadcutters
110gr Winchester Silvertip
110gr Remington SJHP
125gr Speer Gold Dot
110gr Hornady Critical Defense
37gr Magsafe
52gr Magsafe

I would recommend the 125gr Federal Nyclad but they are all but impossible to find right now.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

It seems to me that when I originally bought my "Nyclads" which were very heavy bullets (180gr???) and the ammo was made by (or sold under the name) Smith and Wesson.

It was a very long time ago and my memory may be faulty but I think this is correct.

The new wadcutter loading from Double tap is a very good load.
Not as hot as the Buffalo Bore but warmer than normal factory wadcutter loadings out of a snub. I think it gets 750 fps in a snub with a hardcast DEWC..

They are quoting 740 fps out of a two inch barrel. I need to try some of that one...

The Buffalo Bore 150gr at 868 fps out of a two inch barrel is a little too much fun for me and my Airweights.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

I have it loaded in my 2.5 inch 637.
the stuff is easy to handle and accurate to.

Pete

Are you an expert on wound ballistics in tissue?



The most reliable ammo is the stuff you can shoot fast, accurate, and well.

I agree those DoubleTap full Wadcutter loads are a great choice. Not only are they good ammo they are reasonably priced too. You get 50 rounds for $35 instead of only 20 rounds for $27 like most other SD ammo on the market these days.

I'm a big fan of DoubleTap ammo because it's a quality product at a fair price compared to most other "designer" ammo on the market.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

If you order them from Midway they are only $25.99 box of 50

Pete

In most cases a snubbie 38 will be used at bad breath distance. Any of the afore mentioned loads will work fine if you put em where your supposed to.

I use Nyclads. But that's only because I know nothing about wad cutters.

I would try the Hornady Critical defense in non +P. The results I have seen on youtube, look pretty favorable.

I shoot and carry the same load; it's great stuff AFAIAC.

__________________
David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

What has the best track record rating is the 158 grain SWHP whether in a +P or not. Placement will matter more than brand.

As far as history on the street, the 158gr LHP+P and the Speer 135gr GDHPSB are on top. I'm sure other bullets will work just as well (CorBon DPX and Hornady FTX come to mind) after more time passes.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

Yet the only one listed here that is not +P is the Hornady FTX. It hasn't been around long enough to have much of a history. I believe Federal has re-released its 125g NyClad in a non +P. But on almost any self-defense forum on the internet, even when an OP asks specifically for non +P stuff, he/she invariably get suggestions for +P rounds. Is that a bad omen for the non +P folks?

Its generally a bad omen for reading comprehension.

Doesn't seem to matter what the OP asked, some folks seem to need to tout their favorite gun/load/theory.

One of my pet peeves.

OOTR: I use the 125gr Nyclad in my older resolvers, or the Aguilla 158gr JHP if I feel the need for penetration. Both non +P.

Actually, I use them in the newer lightweight Airlites also.

Regards,

Pat

Excellent Advice IMHO!

__________________
David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

My reading comprehension is just fine.

As so often happens in a long thread, the topic goes off in different directions. I was merely replying to the topic of what ammo, historically, has the best reputation on the street.

For my answer to the original question, see post #30.

Edit to add: It's fine to recommend the Federal Nyclad load but it doesn't do the original poster much good as that ammo is all but impossible to find right now.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

Sorry, I was replying to the post just above mine, not yours.

Those two loads are what I use mostly. They aren't the only ones out there. If they become unavailable, I search for other options, like the last time Federal discontinued them.


Regards,

Pat

If your wife can rapidly and reliably put 5 rounds of 158 grain .38 SPL lead into a 9" paper plate at 5 yards, I figure that is a good-enough SD round.

Sorry about that Pat. The ol' foot in mouth disease gets the best of me sometimes.

__________________
Centennial Every Day