So Ive got a 1965 model 36 that is not +p rated, and I usually shoot remington UMC 130gr fmj at the range for target practice (i get it cheap from my work with my employee discount), Ive also tried 158gr lrn (the only other .38 special we carry) but from my experiences I like shooting the 130gr fmj better, and I was just wondering what yall think about that as a self defense round..

IMHO there are too many better choices to even consider it as a defense load.

Check out Buffalo Bore. They have a non+P load specifically designed for the older .38's.

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Hvy .38 Spl (Non + P) Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

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Only a cold warrior

It's ****. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is. If you want something that will shoot sweet, but still work reasonably well, use 148 gr. target wadcutters.

I've worked on a case in which it was used to kill two people. It would not be anywhere near my top choice.

well then what about 158gr lead round nose? im asking about these 2 because thats all my store carries and the other gun stores in my area charge twice as much for a box of 50 than i can get from my work, and id rather be paying 18 dollars a box than 40

It beats throwing rocks. You *do* know that all Model stamped (post 1958) Smith and Wesson steel frame revolvers can use +P ammunition, right? It may not be stamped on the barrel, but if you look at old gun mags, people used to fire hellacious handloads through the old Js, even old flat latches. Back then, the gurus would work up a load until primers cratered, and then back off a bit. Fun stuff. That's how Jeff Cooper developed the load for his wife's snub.

Remington/UMC 125 grain +P JHP ought be widely available and cheap, as should be the similiar WWB offering. I like the Remington version better. I think the lead is a bit softer and think that it is a bit more likely to expand. The Gold Dot 135 Grain short barrels are also a favorite of a great many. You could also try the Winchester PDX bullets.

If you are set on using non +P, there are a couple popular choices. One is to load your gun with tracers. If you miss, they still scare people. Another is to use wadcutters or semi wadcutters. Still another is to purchase Federal Nyclad hollowpoints which are once again in production.

The old lead round nose has put a lot of men in their graves. It was known for drilling holes deep, perhaps too deep. In ye olden days people would file them flat or carve a cross in the tip to make homemade dum-dum bullets. Whether that really helped or not... eh.

If it was all I could get, I'd actually prefer the 158 gr FMJs to the 130s. Fiochi's offering of this sort used to run hot but I think that they've toned it down in recent years. The 130 FMJs, 158 FMJs, or 158 LRN all beat throwing rocks if it is all you had. The AF had to use relatively low powered FMJs for years and made do.

Well it beats throwing rocks unless you can throw really big rocks now that I think about it. Big rocks are surprisingly effective...

Hi:
If 130gr FMJ and 158gr LRN ammo is only what is available to you, then use either one. Practice double taps to the upper lip/head.
P.S. If you go fishing and have only bass bait, then fish for bass.
Jimmy

I am worth $22.

The history books of Police work in the United States are full of dead officers because of round nose .38 Special ammo.

Spend some money and mail order some decent ammo.

Winchester 110gr Silvertip HP
Federal 148gr wadcutter
Remington 110gr SJHP
Hornady 110gr FTX HP
Federal 125gr Nyclad HP

Any one of these would be lightyears better than round nose ammo.

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Centennial Every Day

The 130 gr. load will work fine if you can place it on target with precision. So will the 158 LRN.

Bullet placement is far, far more important than what bullet you use.

And since bullet placement is far from surgical, I would spend the few extra bucks on at least ONE box of quality ammo and hedge my bets on a non-perfect shot.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

If you're counting on bullet design to make up for bad bullet placement, you're going to be really disappointed.

And if you're counting on someone too cheap to buy defensive ammo to be able to make a precision strike with 130gr ball, you're going to be really disappointed too

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I miss my 4546 the most.

Quit being a tight wad, buy some desent ammo. What is your life worth?

What is your familys life worth? An extra 20.00 for a box of ammo is cheap insurance.

Yep.

Seriously.. we all like to get the best deal on ammo.. and for target yeah, get whatever you can find cheapest.

However, you need to invest a little extra to find a good defense round.

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- The Federalist #46 -

ok ok, yall can be a bit more calm.. I understand that i may sound like im being cheap, and its true id like to save money i mean who doesnt.. but if you didnt notice me asking if these were good for self defense.. im not going around claiming anything... so please just take it easy, nobody likes to be called names

but thank you for the responses.. it seems that most of you believe there is better ammo and that your life and my life are worth the extra dollars and i agree so ill definitely be looking around for some.. but at the same time i dont think anyone would like to get shot with any type of bullet... so i guess ill just use the 130 gr fmj for target practice.. thanks everybody

Because the skull is notorious for deflecting bullets, after reading Jim Cirillo's book Guns, Bullets and Gunfights, I would expect both loads to work poorly on what might otherwise be good headshots. The first man Cirillo put down took three 158 gr. RNL to the head before he stopped because the first and second shot skipped off his skull. Cirillo thought that bullets with a sharp shoulder were more likely to "dig in" rather than deflect. That's one of several reasons that I often say good ammo may turn a marginal hit into a good one. True, but still no reason to use substandard ammo. I try to give myself every advantage I can get. It's no different than an infantryman in a defensive position preparing the battlefield in advance. The more you stack the odds in your favor, the more likely you are to win. Shot placement is the most important thing, but it isn't everything. Don't use ****** ammo.

There's a Wally World practically everywhere in the country and oftentimes the Remington +P 125 gr. SJHP load that Gatorfarmer mentioned is available there and affordable. I will only tell the OP what I do. I carry what I feel is the best ammo available and use handloads for practice. For a non reloader, using 130 gr. FMJ or 158 gr. RNL for practice is fine. A cylinder or two with the carry ammo to finish up a practice session is all that is really needed.

Any of the better .38+P loads can be found online and shipped to you, so just because a certain load is hard to come by locally, doesn't mean that it's unavailable.

The major difference between that 130gr. load and .38 Long Colt is better accuracy. Have you ever heard .38 Long Colt praised for its gunfight stopping ability?

I would NEVER, EVER use FMJs for self-defense if ANYTHING else was available.

I'll defend a good shoot all day, every day. There's NO defense to a through and through that kills or wounds a bystander. If it's a good shoot, you probably won't go to jail, but you'll lose your behind in civil court, and fully deserve to unless you're prevented BY LAW from using proper ammunition.

I've got a "no-dash" Model 36. I carry Federal 158gr. LSWC-HP +Ps in it and every other .38/.357 I use for self-defense. Occasional use of reasonable +Ps isn't dangerous and won't even damage a modern S&W revolver.

I'll rephrase my statement.............

130gr FMJ would be the LAST .38spl round I'd use for self defense. At least 158gr RNL has a better chance of being regulated for older fixed-sight revolvers.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

I shoot the 130g FMJ as a practice load and find it shoots POA or very close to POA out of the 4 diffrent 38 snubs I have. Have also shot it out of a couple of other snubs and found the same thing.

It is also at the bottom of the list for defence ammo. I know of 2 diffrent shootings with 9mm ball ammo in which someone was shot 13/14 times and lived, one of them even managed to kill the shooter.

Hornady makes some great standard pressure 38 spl loads. The Hornady personal defense 158g hollow points are nice. Even nicer are their 110g Critical defense loads. Both rounds are offered in non +p Loadings and are very viable personal defense loads. My $1.37 for ya.

Trey

Any .38 beats a .22, or .25. Joe

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Behavior Creates Destiny

Reading this I have wondered about the 130 FMJ as well. I dont carry my M38 yet because I have yet to shoot enough through it to know what it likes. I find the 130 for me shoots a little low. I doubt enough to matter and it may be me rather than the ammo. I figure the 158 will shoot poa as will the 147 WC. I wonder as well about poa poi for the 110 and 125.

Neither 158 gr lrn or 130gr fmj is a very good choice for SD use. Both will however poke a hole through someone and are better then no ammo at all.

If I had to choose between the two, it would be 158gr lrn.

Good compromise load for a 77 year old widow lady who chose a J-frame because it fit her hand .....

trigtechr

How about the Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel?
Much better bullet design.

I just got back from the range with a magna gripped Airweight 642, testing some different loads, and there is a big (!) difference between 135gr +P and standard pressure 110gr or 125gr loads.

For a 77 year old, I would not recommend the 135gr +P load in any J frame. A 110gr, 125gr or even 148gr standard pressure load would be a much better choice. I might even (gasp!) handload some light loads for an older shooter.

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Centennial Every Day

I have shot the winchester 130gn FMJ in my Model 15...It was quite accurate out to 25yds.
Would it be my first choice in 38spl SD ammo? No, but I would not feel poorly armed with it at all.
By the way, the winchester load has a large flat point profile...it ought to perform similarly to a wadcutter.

I don't think it will perform like a wadcutter. Truncated cone FMJs have not been shown to transmit more "shock" than do round-nose FMJs, Col. Cooper notwithstanding. If recoil is a problem, actual 148 gr. target wadcutters would be superior to the 130s. Also, QC on the wallyworld WW stuff has been pretty awful. Recoil won't matter if it goes "click" instead of "bang."

As for the 135gr. Short Barrel loads being too snappy, they have a good deal less recoil than most other +P loads, including several with ballistics inferior to the Short Barrel ammo. If you can't handle that, then dropping back to standard pressure 125gr. Nyclads or 148gr. target wadcutters makes sense. There are lots of choices that are better than 130 gr. FMJ.

Just my opinion, but it's right. Remember what you paid for it.

I have a 642 with CT grips. I make it a point to shoot it at least every 60 days or so. I have found with even minimum practice I can double tap and keep'em in a ball cap at 5-7 yards. Actually I use paper plates.

Anything is snappy in a 642. LOL If I'm just burnin ammo I shoot 130's.
Now and then if I'm feelin kinda sporty I'll drop a cylinder or two of some HP's in it.

When I get home and she's ready to bow up I drop sone HP's in it.

If I was getting'em at a heck of a price like you are I'd shoot all I could buy.

But I think for self defense I would have several of the best laying around.

Dan

I agree with cp....choose what suits you, and then go practice a lot with it. Bullet placement is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, than what comes out of the barrel. If you accurately hit the target with a 38spl LRN bullet, you can be assured your adversary will stop his attack upon you. Police officers here in the US used them for many years in their side arms, and many bad guys went to their graves with well placed shots from them. My older home defense 38spl weapons use LRNs exclusively. Plus, if your weapon is a newer model, made of modern steel, then +P ammo will work just fine, and give you more confidence versus an adversary.
Practice, practice, practice ! BT

My ,my. Perhaps the 130 FMJ is not the most perfect personal defense ammunition but I think its probably better than 158 LRN, which is not as good as Federal Hydra Shock 110 JHP, which is not as good as something +P which is not as good as something something...My point is it is better to hit a bad guy with 158GRN LRN than miss him with a 44 magnum....I have seen lots of people killed with .22's .25, .32, and all manner of bullets. I went to one shooting and found a guys head completely destroyed. I thought a shot gun blast had done him in only to find out the dead guy shot another guy with a .32 and the guy who got shot took the gun away from the shooter and beat him to death with it....true story too.....I have an older model 36 and I carry Federal 110 grn Hydra shocks JHP...not the best not the worst but I think a good compromise and if I only could affor 130fmj that's what Id carry....and anyone who doesn't think it is a good round can volunteer to stand in front...say ten feet in front of something loaded with it and volunteer to get shot with it.....any takers....

Consider Corbon DPX. Excellent penetration. Low flash and recoil.

Re: 148 gr wadcutter as alternate to 130 FMJ for widow woman:
One consideration is ease of reloading revolver, RN vs. WC.
With either, placement will be more important than projectile configuration.
And don't even think of recommending a hotter load - recoil is an important factor for an elderly woman with limited handgunning ability.
Reloads? Naw, I long ago switched back to factory only for serious social intercourse. If you're an active LEO, your department probably requires factory. If it doesn't it should.
trigtechr

Just a side note: my J-frame is loaded with 158 gr. Federal .357 Hydra-shoks.
Severe recoil on both ends.
Acceptable.
trigtechr