Shoot The Dog?

[TennTony]

Had my first self defense use of a CCL gun tonight. Pulled into my driveway at approx. 9:15 p.m. and was confronted with a neighbor's pit bull. I live in a cul de sac and the back gate was open on a neighbor's yard a few doors away. The dog was loose. It came around the back of the car, barking at me. I yelled a few commands at it and moved toward it but it did not back off. I then started moving up my driveway wondering what else I could do. The dog followed barking and lunged, biting at me but only getting my pant leg, which it immediately released. At that point I drew my gun, 3.5" .45 ACP. The dog was about 5 feet away. Considering my options I chose to fire one round into my front lawn, about 3 feet from the dog. The dog, of course, turned tail. I went in the house and called the police to report the incident. The incident was written up and deemed justified. The responding officer asked why I didn't shoot the dog.

My reasoning was I had not actually been bitten and my pants were not even torn. I felt the dog would try to bite me again. I was certain the noise & muzzle flash of a 230 grain Hydra-Shok would send the dog running. I am interested in opinions, especially from LEOs: Should I have shot the dog?

[redlevel]

Sorry, I'm not a LEO. You would have been entirely justified in shooting the dog. If you had, however, you would have been deemed lower than a child molester by the owners (he isn't aggressive! he wouldn't hurt a flea! he just wanted to play! the kids wrestle with him all the time!) and by at least half your other neighbors. In fact, I know of one person who actually was accused of child-molestation by the owners of a pit he shot in his own yard, after the dog had escaped his pen and invaded the yard (where a disabled, wheelchair bound child was) numerous times.

We used to be a nation of dog-lovers. Now, we are a nation of dog worshippers.

[Frailer]

In terms of gauging the appropriateness of your response in a dangerous situation, the only criterion that matters is whether you and yours escape unharmed. Only you were there, so no one else is qualified to pass judgement. Nevertheless, based on the results it seems you did the right thing.

I would not, however, recommend warning shots for human encounters. If the sight of your gun doesn't make him back down firing a round in the dirt is unlikely to do so.

[TennTony]

Originally Posted by Frailer

I would not, however, recommend warning shots for human encounters. If the sight of your gun doesn't make him back down firing a round in the dirt is unlikely to do so.

I agree entirely. Had this been an encounter with human(s) that decision would have been made before I reached for the gun.

In hindsight, it was good to have that option with the dog.

[Crazy K38]

I would have hit the dog with the hydroshock, my reasoning is had you fired that round and he still attacked you blew your one 'for sure' half arsed safe shot trying to warn your attacker that you would attack back

[Kanewpadle]

The dog crossed the line. He needed to be shot. If not to save your skin, maybe someone else's.

Dogs that aggressive don't get a second chance.

[1965]

I walk my dogs every week. All my mutts are ALWAYS on leashes. Very frequently people walk their dogs off the leash, and they usually charge my dogs. I dog Tilley is a 6 year old 100 pound muscled-out dog who is very aggressive with other dogs. When they charge her and she reacts to them, the other owners look at me as if I am some kind of a fiend.

That being said, I am a LEO and am usually armed. When I walk the dogs in the land of the unleashed dogs (Orange County, CA), I always carry 10% pepper spray. Shooting a dog is the absolute last resort. Even if the law is on your side, not every situation under the law is the correct one.

Although you scared the dog away, the liability is still on you if that bullet somehow bounces off something and hits a person, you are in big trouble.

Usually pepper spray is effective on dogs, and if that doesn't work, then do what you must do to reasonably protect yourself.

Two very large pitbulls charge my german shepard Tiley, and I sprayed them both. They ran away and started licking each others eyes...burned like heck!

Had that not deterred the attack, I would have shot. Keep in mind I was in the hills with no one around. Had I been in a busy area with people and children around, I would not shoot. As ferosious as dogs can be, I do believe I could kill a dog with my hands as anyone here would if it attacked you child (I have no kids).

I those situations, consider carrying a large stick and/or knife.

My .02 worth...

[flop-shank]

He's vicious. Someone else will get bit later. If the neighbors are too dense to get that, then they can............. A man has to do what he has to do and sometimes one has to be a "majority of one".

That said, good job! you successfully negotiated a deadly force encounter unscathed. You're wise to "debrief" by discussing the incident with other carriers and I apologize if I sound too much like the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" guy.

[sourdough44]

I think you did fine. If you had a tear in the pant leg & on your own property I'd call it justified(even a sidewalk). That said I've seen people get in more trouble over shooting a "pet" than a person, depending on what the owner wants to do. I have at times carried spray or a stick, I realize you were not out for a stroll.
One guy told me the story of an aggressive dog that was killing his dog on his property. He took a shovel to it's head, didn't quite kill it. The owner of the offending dog gave his story to the police. It took a while for the other guy to get the real facts out. The aggressive dog also had a 'history'. Under the right circumstances I'll go with SSS.

[cabindriver]

Do you carry a cell phone? What's the police response time in your area? How about getting back in your vehicle and calling the police? I'd rather have the police shoot your neighbor's dog than you do it; creating all kinds of bad feelings from your neighbor. I'll second carrying OC.

[Megahurts]

Not to second guess your reaction because only you where there and you made the correct decision for you. But, I have been in a simliar situation and used pepper spray when an unleashed dog attacked. Pepper spray works really well, but if I take my gun out of the holster, somethings going to get shot.

[oldman45]

You actually pulled and fired upon an unarmed subject? In a residential area no less.

You should have put the dog out of your misery.

[David Sinko]

The only dog I ever killed (so far) was a pit bull that bit my gun hand without provocation while I was on duty. Shooting a dog on a city street with people around can be a tricky business and the disaster factor is high. I had a couple of other incidents where I would've been justified but the backdrop presented a very dangerous shot either with children present or millionaires and lawyers living just beyond my sight picture. In those situations I held my shot until the last second (waiting to see the whites of their eyes?) and the dogs backed off, seeing that I was holding my ground and sensing my complete lack of fear. In your situation where the dog has latched onto your pant leg, it should be shot. The safest and most effective shot for such a predicament is to shoot downward through the dog's hips, keeping the bullet as far away from you as possible while disabling the dog. A dog shot in such a manner will scream bloody murder, but as far as I'm concerned is still dangerous and shot be shot again quickly and killed. But this must all be done very quickly or you will likely draw all kinds of public scrutiny and outrage.

Dave Sinko

[Faulkner]

It has been my experiance that OC pepper spray is NOT a dependable deterent for dogs. I've used it dozens of times and have found it to be 25% effective at best on aggressive dogs. There are specifically designed dog sprays that are much more effective, and we have found that an ABC fire extingusher is very effective.

But, back to the original question, if that dog had gotten close enough to nip at my pant leg while in my own driveway it would have been DRT. It is common knowledge that pit bull terriers are powerful dogs with a tendancy to aggresiveness. You neighbors should be cognicent enough to know that if their pit bull gets out, unsupervised, it is a major liability for them.

As for getting back in the car, calling 911 and awaiting the police to come deal with it . . . that's a good recommendation for a unarmed woman or child.

[OKFC05]

Originally Posted by redlevel

Sorry, I'm not a LEO. You would have been entirely justified in shooting the dog. If you had, however, you would have been deemed lower than a child molester by the owners (he isn't aggressive! he wouldn't hurt a flea! he just wanted to play! the kids wrestle with him all the time!) and by at least half your other neighbors.

We used to be a nation of dog-lovers. Now, we are a nation of dog worshippers.

And the owners who claim the "right" for their dogs to run loose, even when prohibited by law, will claim it is YOUR FAULT their dog bit your child in your back yard.

[speedshooter]

A few weeks ago here in erie, a police officer HAD TO shoot and kill a dog that attacked him. The dog came out and lunged several time while trhe officer backed away.I guess the final attack came and the dog wasnt stopping and the officer shot the dog.Of course the owner said the officer didnt have to shoot the dog because he really wouldnt have hurt him.(witnesses said otherwise) The dogs owner started pulling the race card in an attempt to direct guilt to the officer.That didnt work out so well for them.Guess the only thing that happened was the owner was charged for failure to have their dog on a leash.What kills me is that he animal enforcement arent allowed to carry a weapon, just a pole with a rope on it..man thats really handy to have. How was it Ted Nugent put it, "shoot the dog and used the pole and rope on the owner"

[USAF385]

I personally thing you handled it just fine. From your description it sounds that while you were surely in danger of being injured, you weren't in immediate danger of death. I would have handled it the same way.. warning shot first. Although for a dog, it's not as much as of a warning shot as it is a loud really scary noise.

At the very least, maybe the neighbor will be more careful about keeping Fifi properly tied up now that it has come close to being shot.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Megahurts

Not to second guess your reaction because only you where there and you made the correct decision for you. But, I have been in a simliar situation and used pepper spray when an unleashed dog attacked. Pepper spray works really well, but if I take my gun out of the holster, somethings going to get shot.

I agree. No disrespect, but the hell with pepper spray. I would use it if I couldn't get a safe shot at the dog. But otherwise I would put the dog down.

Many years ago a dog chased me and tried to bite me. I did nothing about it. The next day the very same dog cornered my wife and she held it off with an ice scraper.

NEVER AGAIN!

How do think I would feel if the same dog attacked a family member or neighbor? Maybe your son or daughter playing in the front yard?

[Malysh]

Our dogs, Yogi the Basset hound, and Gunny, the German Shepherd in my avatar, have been attacked about 7 times in 14 years while out for walks in our neighborhood. That's about once every 2 years. We are sick and tired of it.
My wife and I always carry pepper spray, whether it's effective I don't know except the last time Yogi was attacked about a year ago, she said she sprayed the pepper spray at the attacking dog with no results. She said she thought she might have missed it's face. Two guys working down the block came to assist her. One was getting ready to clock the attacking dog with a long 2x4 when the owner came out and got his dog. My wife hates guns although she doesn't interfere at all with my owning and collecting. I always carry legally concealed.

About 6 weeks ago, she was walking Gunny for me. Gunny is a 4 year old 110lb East German bloodline German Shepherd. He's my 3rd Shepherd. I haven't been able to walk him since mid February due to an undiagnosed hernia, which I have since had surgery for. I was upstairs and heard a loud distubance and I looked out the window to see a 55-60 lb mutt that's owned by a rental property couple down the block attacking Gunny, who is on his leash of course. I limped downstairs to see Gunny with the mutt in his mouth shaking him back and forth. The mutt was off the ground completely. The owner arrives at this time and gets his dog and apologizes in such a way, with his arms outstretched and says, "I'm sorry I apologize" when my wife reminds him his dog has gotten off the property many times before. His words may have been an apology but his body language and tone of voice indicated he was annoyed at being hassled. He only said he was sorry because he was smart enough to know it was smarter to do so. If left off his leash there is no doubt Gunny would have killed this dog. He is very protective and confident dog, but he's not a psycho. He's very gentle and extremely loving with us and strangers off the property in neutral territory. He will challenge visitors until we quiet him down with proven techniques. 5 minutes later, he'll be leaning his side on them and kissing their hands. We do not allow him to be present if the visitor has visible fear of a big dog. So ocassionlly I will put him in another room if we have a scared visitor or a repairman over. I make sure visits of those type of folks are short because I don't like to isolate him from his environment.

I took Gunny to the vet and had him checked out. The mutt had bitten him where his neck joins the right shoulder. No break in the skin and only minor bruising. I don't know how much damage Gunny did to the other dog and frankly, I don't care. It's the owner's fault more than the dog's. My wife reminded me that when Gunny was a puppy about 3 1/2 years ago, the same dog ran down the block and turned the corner (we have a corner property) and ran all the way down the one side of our property to attack this 3 month old puppy. There was no damage luckily. The wife or daughter was right behind the mutt and pulled him off before he could do any damage. I had forgotten the incident because Gunny was OK and I had been at work when it happended and heard it afterwards.

I reported the current incident to the local PD. I expected the other dog's owner to just pay our vet bills as the proceedure in the borough is usualy to warn the attacking dog's owner the first time as to the legal and financial fines attached to having a loose dog around here. If the victim dog has serious injuries I think the police around here would handle the violation differently. The responding officer cited the owners for letting the dog run free, a lapsed rabies vaccination, and no dog registration.
So now the idiot is facing $400-$500 worth of fines instead of a $100 vet visit reimbursement.

It's because this idiot's dog attacked him as a puppy and due to the same type of incident that happened with another grown dog when Gunny was a puppy, that he hates all other dogs aside from his 'bro, Yogi.
I could tell Gunny was made of harder stuff than my other Shepherds even at 8-9 weeks old. I took him to a puppy training class around here so he could meet a lot of other dogs when he was a baby and so he would be well socialized to other dogs. I have raise and trained 5 dogs and I didn't need to take him for training so I would know how to handle him, just for the socialization. Most of the dogs owners around here are too lazy to walk their dogs. They never get out of the yards. No wonder they are mostly very territorial and don't like other dogs to the extent they will race 2-3 blocks off their property to attack. Of those that do walk their dogs, a number of them are too lazy to pick up the dog poop. Hey, I hate handling dog poop too, but it's a law and it makes sense.

Ironically, of the 7 or so times our dogs have been attacked, it's only been when my poor wife was walking them. I can't say for sure I wouldn't have shot the big nasty Rottweiler that got out of his yard and threatend my 2nd Shepherd, Jesse and Yogi years ago. The owner was right there and had to back his dog up with a rake to get him to stop moving forward.

I have -0- tolerance for other dog owners who neglect their animals and put them at risk by not making sure gates and doors are secure. They put their own dogs at risk to getting hit by vehicles and other people and dogs at risk, too. If it was up to me and any of these aggressive dogs had attacked when I was walking my guys I would shoot them out of hand. But I know better and will only really do so if there's no other alternative. I always let the cops handle it since it's never been a dire emergency, only frightening.

[cp1969]

I think the OP handled it correctly. That dog bit just what it wanted to bite--clothes, not leg. If it wanted the leg, it would have gotten it. Dogs don't usually miss what they're going after, especially when it's something as slow as a person.

Wasp spray apparently works good, too. A friend was a telephone repairman and a big Doberman came after him one day. All he had was wasp spray and shot some at the dog and got him in the mouth. The dog collapsed as if it was shot. My friend actually thought he'd killed the dog and went about his business and came back to the house later to explain what had happened to their dog. The dog was not dead, though, and was sitting on the front porch and paid no attention to him at all when he walked up and rang the doorbell.

[xrmattaz]

All good points.

I'm the epitome of the dog worshipper, but/and I think the best case scenario would have been the elimination of the dog. I don't know if I would have done such, and would likely have reacted exactly the same as the OP, until the dog started causing me (or my dog!) personal harm.

But, this dog (or his owners), no longer have a right to co-exist with neighbors, IMO.

My dog(s) don't attack people, nor other dogs.

[sheriffoconee]

Let's don't call it a "warning" shot, it is correctly called a "distraction" shot, and it solved the problem at the least intrusive level....seems fine to me...you were there, we weren't, and you solved the problem...

[flop-shank]

Originally Posted by David Sinko

The safest and most effective shot for such a predicament is to shoot downward through the dog's hips, keeping the bullet as far away from you as possible while disabling the dog. A dog shot in such a manner will scream bloody murder, but as far as I'm concerned is still dangerous and should be shot again quickly and killed. But this must all be done very quickly or you will likely draw all kinds of public scrutiny and outrage.

Excellent post and awesome info from an experienced cop. Thanks for adding something to my bag of tricks, Dave.

[cmort666]

1. I'm not the animal control officer.
2. I don't carry chemical sprays for dogs OR people.
3. I don't do "warning shots". If something or somebody doesn't need to be shot, you shouldn't be shooting AT ALL. I'll risk a bullet going some place I don't want it to in order to stop a threat. I won't do it to SCARE a threat, dog OR human.
4. Once a dog makes violent unwanted contact with me or anything attached to me, it's a threat.
5. If you don't want your dog to get shot, prevent it from being a threat to others. If that's too hard to grasp, you shouldn't have a dog.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by cmort666

1. I'm not the animal control officer.
2. I don't carry chemical sprays for dogs OR people.
3. I don't do "warning shots". If something or somebody doesn't need to be shot, you shouldn't be shooting AT ALL. I'll risk a bullet going some place I don't want it to in order to stop a threat. I won't do it to SCARE a threat, dog OR human.
4. Once a dog makes violent unwanted contact with me or anything attached to me, it's a threat.
5. If you don't want your dog to get shot, prevent it from being a threat to others. If that's too hard to grasp, you shouldn't have a dog.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm glad things turned out well for the OP.

[scoutsdad]

I have had more than a couple of occasions to fire at song dogs bothering my dogs on our walks.

But only once did I fire my gun in a situation with a neighbors dogs.

Story was I walked my blind 14 YO diabetic dog Scout on a easement on my property. My neighbors Great Dane and 2 cattle dogs ran down hill at a fast clip and blindsided Scout. They were going at pretty good I pulled my M66 and fired the first round snakeshot into the air. That stopped the small dogs, but the dane was still on Scout. I had my gun to the dogs head and was about to pull the trigger when my neighbor who had been 50 ft back grabbed his dog and kicked the stuffing out of him.

Poor Scout never really recovered from the fight, he has since crossed the Rainbow bridge.

[Capt Steve]

The problem with an aggressive Pit Bull (or similar breed), is that once they attack and lock on the victim, human or canine, is in a world of excrement. Getting them off is almost guaranteed to bring serious injury and in the mean time the victim is likely seriously injured or dead. We had some fool who would release their Pit Bull in the wash adjacent to our community every morning for sport. One walker heard this *** actually telling his dog to "Go get em boy!" The dog attacked several resident and nearly killed one small dog before his owner could pull his dog free incurring severe injuries in the process. The response time for the sheriff made calling them problematic. Upon responding after the dog had fled the deputy instructed to just shoot the damned dog, and to do so at a reasonable distance, if he ever comes back.

[ColbyBruce]

I work for the USPS and have been attacked by dogs maybe eight times in twenty-three years, bitten three, only once has the skin been broken. The spray we are given to fend off dogs seems to have little affect, if any at all. I have found the hard plastic letter trays to be quite effective when deployed upon the head on an incoming canine.

[TennTony]

Thanks to all of you for your responses. It looks like less than 20% actually favored shooting the dog. I obviously agreed with the other 80%, as judged by my actions.

Sheriffoconee got it absolutely correct, it was not a warning shot. I fired into my rain soaked lawn and knew exactly where the bullet would be found. I was positive, before I pulled the trigger, that the muzzle flash and muzzle blast would drive the dog away. This was a situation involving an animal, not a human. Comments about confrontations with humans have no relevance to the subject of this thread.

Part of the problem is I am not at all afraid of dogs. I have confronted other dogs and been bitten occasionally, but always felt I controlled the situation. I felt that if I did not drive the dog away I would be bitten, possibly severely. It never occurred to me to get back in the car. I was simply going into the house. Had I not had the gun on me I would have pulled out my tactical folder, planning to use it if necessary. I do not retreat in fear when faced with a single dog. I do not carry pepper spray or other non-lethal human or critter repellents. Why should I? I have my gun.

I was not in the park, out for a walk, or in any other public venue. I was in my own driveway. Even in my normally quiet neighborhood, virtually no one is out walking or walking their dogs at 9:00 p.m. (1.5-2 hours after dark). Add to that the fact that I live on what is essentially a dead end street. I believe my actions were entirely safe for myself, my neighbors and, ironically, the dog. As well as effective in ending the confrontation.

I guess I could get one of those aerosol air horns people take to football games, it would probably work too. The simple truth is I chose to use my gun as a noise maker rather than a lethal weapon. The situation did not require lethal or non-lethal force, only a loud noise & bright flash. Hmmmm, when is a gun not a gun?

BTW It is a Federal crime to use wasp spray for any of the uses mentioned in this thread.

[Krull]

You did the same as I do,I live in the back country and dogs always seem to find their way to me if they get loose (or are left loose) and they chase my cats.

I fire a shot over their heads first-they run they live,if they don't then it turns into aimed fire and puppy becomes plant food.

I'd say 99% of them run like the devil is after them with a gas can and matches.

[ltcdoty]

Originally Posted by Capt Steve

The problem with an aggressive Pit Bull (or similar breed), is that once they attack and lock on the victim, human or canine, is in a world of excrement. Getting them off is almost guaranteed to bring serious injury and in the mean time the victim is likely seriously injured or dead. We had some fool who would release their Pit Bull in the wash adjacent to our community every morning for sport. One walker heard this *** actually telling his dog to "Go get em boy!" The dog attacked several resident and nearly killed one small dog before his owner could pull his dog free incurring severe injuries in the process. The response time for the sheriff made calling them problematic. Upon responding after the dog had fled the deputy instructed to just shoot the damned dog, and to do so at a reasonable distance, if he ever comes back.

A few years back a lady was walking her small dog in a local park, when the dog was attacked by a pit bull that was let off the leash by the owner. A passerby intervened to help the woman, and the pit bull went after him, sinking his teeth into the good Samaritan's arm.

The Samaritan calmly picked up the dog that was still attached to his arm and walked into the park pond and laid down on the dog and drowned it.

A pretty cool cucumber...

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by ltcdoty

The Samaritan calmly picked up the dog that was still attached to his arm and walked into the park pond and laid down on the dog and drowned it.

A pretty cool cucumber...

I have it on reliable information that I'm that cold blooded, I just don't know if I'm strong enough!

[Frailer]

Originally Posted by TennTony

...BTW It is a Federal crime to use wasp spray for any of the uses mentioned in this thread.

While this statement is technically correct, 7 USC 136 relates to environmental pesticide control.

FWIW a shot fired into the ground meets my definition of a "warning shot," but it's no skin off my nose if it doesn't for others.

In any event, I'm glad you were unhurt. As I stated earlier, if you walk away from a dangerous encounter you did the right thing.

[38-44HD45]

Originally Posted by cabindriver

Do you carry a cell phone? What's the police response time in your area? How about getting back in your vehicle and calling the police? I'd rather have the police shoot your neighbor's dog than you do it; creating all kinds of bad feelings from your neighbor. I'll second carrying OC.

Then you could just hand the phone to the dog, once you got the 911 dispatcher, and the dispatcher could talk the dog down and appeal to its tender nature...

I've had to shoot three dogs in self defense or defense of my children or pets over the years. Two were feral, likely dumped in the country by irresponsible city folks, one was a neighbor's dog, and the neighbor had moved away and abandoned the dog. My brother has had to shoot two dogs, both belonging to drug dealers, when he was serving warrants and the owners wouldn't call off the dogs. None of these shoots were fun, all were necessary. I love dogs, my brother loves them even more, but not all dogs are lovable, and more importantly, none are human.

The OP did well, but was lucky. Likely, I'd have shot the dog, but avoiding neighborly disputes is a good thing. I just learned of a young man of my son's acquaintance who was murdered in Houston over the weekend, because his neighbor thought his music was too loud; not really as big a problem as a vicious dog, I'd say. However, a Pit that has attacked a human will probably do it again, so the OP should be prepared to put the dog down the next time. He's bought and paid for now.

[Dogguy]

As you can see by my handle, I'm a dog lover from way back.

You would have been perfectly justified in shooting the dog. But you did the right thing and saved a hassle with your neighbor, so it all worked out.

[kingwc]

I too am a dog lover and all the stray dogs in the neighborhood end up at my house and never leave. I will however not tolerate a vicious dog in any way. There are too many children around including my grandchildren.

We live in the country and a few years ago two pit bulls showed up chained to dog houses on the property across from our house that has been empty for years. It turns out that the owner of the dogs was put in jail and a lady dog warden had put the dogs there on her own so they would not be put down.

The dogs got loose twice and came into my yard and was aggressive to my dogs and my wife. We called the humane society and the lady came and tied the dogs then she came on my property and said if we did not tie our dogs she would pick them up and have me arrested.

I told her the dogs were on my property and that she had no right to pick them up. She left in a huff and said she would be back.

A few days later my wife called me and said one of the pit bulls was loose and in our garage and would not let her in the house.
I told my wife I was on my way and to go in the other door and to call the humane society and tell that "B" that if the dog was still there I would shoot it and bring it to her office.

As I pulled into my drive the lady was leaving with the dog after telling my wife she was coming back the next day to pick up our dogs for being loose on our property.

The next morning I went to the sheriffs office and told him what happened and that the next time one those dogs came into my yard I was going to shoot it and bring the body to his office along with my lawyer.

He could not believe this happened and assured me that he would take care of it. When I got home the dogs were gone and I later learned lady warden had been fired and charged for endangering the public and harboring vicious animals.

[chp]

OP - you achieved the desired result and kept your head. Well done! I applaud your actions and cool headedness.

I suggest that you decide - ahead of time - what you will do if the dog shows aggression to you or yours again.

[photoman]

Originally Posted by TennTony

I was positive, before I pulled the trigger, that the muzzle flash and muzzle blast would drive the dog away.

How did you know this? I think 38-44HD45 is right, you got lucky. Please be prepared to shoot the dog next time. Your safety and the safety of your neighbors depends on it.

I've spent the better part of the last 20 years saving abandoned and neglected dogs but would not think twice about shooting a dog that is attacking me.

[TennTony]

Originally Posted by Photoman44

How did you know this? I think 38-44HD45 is right, you got lucky. Please be prepared to shoot the dog next time. Your safety and the safety of your neighbors depends on it.

I've spent the better part of the last 20 years saving abandoned and neglected dogs but would not think twice about shooting a dog that is attacking me.

Living with and observing dogs for most of my 61 years. Cannot readily quantify this, but I was absolutely sure. Factors that come into play: apparent age of the dog, obvious lack of training, posture.... It borders on intuitive, but is more analytical than that. Excepting a very small percentage of specially trained dogs, I believe 99+% of dogs will exhibit the same response to the stimulus I provided. The odds were overwhelmingly in my favor.

I would not be surprised if the dog has a ruptured ear drum. The first encounter was not pain free for the dog. I am guessing it will avoid me in the future. I don't think the dog is stupid, just improperly trained. If there is a second encounter I doubt it will survive.

[Kanewpadle]

I am a dog lover. Have always had one in the family. I, like you thought I could read or guess how a dog would react.

I got bit not once but twice!

They drew blood but it was nothing serious although it could have been. Quick thinking and even quicker reflexes saved me.

Since being bit I have "showed" my gun to two other dogs. Both pitbulls. They each were smart enough to know that they were going to loose the fight before it started and they stayed away.

Getting bit didn't hurt much but it scared the hell out of me. It'll never happen again.

[WR Moore]

FWIW, several years ago I tried to break up a multi-dog fight by firing into the ground. All participants jumped back, inspected themselves for wounds and promptly jumped back into the fight.

[TennTony]

Originally Posted by WR Moore

FWIW, several years ago I tried to break up a multi-dog fight by firing into the ground. All participants jumped back, inspected themselves for wounds and promptly jumped back into the fight.

I can see that happening and may, sort of, understand it. I would theorize, as you were not part of the fight, the dogs were mainly ignoring or unaware of you. Your gunshot was a momentary distraction, not directly related to their activity, hence the pause & resume behavior.

In my case I was the object of the dogs attention. The dog was very aware of my responding to it. Bright flash in night adapted eyes and very loud bang to sensitive ears was a frightening response from me. (Not to belabor the point, but I know first hand about gunshot reports and ear damage.) Knowing where the dog was in relation to where my gun was pointed, it did not just hear the blast, it felt it.

[Kanewpadle]

The only thing that I found that works on dogs other than a firearm is a baton style stun gun.

A few years ago while enjoying a quite afternoon at home while my wife and daughter shopped, I heard a commotion outside. It was summer and I had the patio door and windows open. I stood and looked across the street to see a big pitbull running toward a man walking his dog on a leash. The pit quickly grabbed the other dog by the neck and would not let go. I ran out the door in my socks but stopped long enough to grab my stun gun. I keep it by the patio door to chase off dogs that wander into my yard. I had to run about 80 yards. Both dog owners were there trying to get the pitbull off the other dog. Then the pitbull jumped up and bit the guy on the arm when he tried to pepper spray it. Required about 20 stitches later on.

My stun gun is about 16 inches long and about 200,000 volts. As luck would have it, the pitbull never saw me coming. I zapped him on the butt good. He yelped while jumping three feet in the air and pooped at the same time. He ran about 100feet away and charged back. I was armed with a 1911 because I had just return from the range. I slipped my hand under my shirt to grab it but realized that there several people there. Mostly kids. I didn't want to endanger them or let the little kids see a dog get shot. So I charged at the dog with stun gun on and yelled at it. It worked.

Unfortunately the police never showed. They were too busy. A week later the same pitbull attacked and killed a lady's dog while she walked it. The pit also bit the lady on the face. Animal control came and got the dog and I haven't seen it again. Kind of wish I would have shot it when I had the chance.

Baton style stun guns work great but are too big and cumbersome to carry around.

Guess a handgun will have to do.

[walnutred]

I hate to second guess anyone but I'm still trying to get over the idea you let the dog get close enough to bite your pants without firing. I understand that different parts of the country hand even different communities have different standards of conduct. What I would have done is largely shaped by what is considered acceptable behavior where I live.

[haifabuddy]

Here's what I teach about dogs: "You can shoot a man, but not man's best friend." (I have large dogs and dread the thought that someone would mistake them for dangerous and shoot them, especially a police officer).

That said, pit bull and bad *** biters like them might be the exception. One bite could end your ability to shoot and put you into shock. If you have a small child with you and the dog presents to it, you likely need to shoot since a bite will disfigure the child or worse much easier. If you pick up the child, you limit your ability to defend.

When I walk outside I carry OC and it has worked on attacking dogs, large and small. You could also jump on on top of a car time permitting.

[ENGINE18]

.........as a door nail!

[Peckerwood702]

you did the right thing not shooting the dog. I cant see myself shooting any dog even if i get bit, I love pits and own one. My dog has gotten lose countless times now(shes sneaky and fast) The last time she ran right for a family walking down the street but all she did was try to lick them to death, thank God. Now if my dog is getting attacked by another I will have no problem shooting the other dog.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by haifabuddy

You could also jump on on top of a car time permitting.

If somebody's dog is running loose and makes me "jump on top of a car", the dog's going to have a bad day, and the owner a MUCH, MUCH worse one.

People who feel that they can impose upon total strangers in that way send me into an eye bleeding rage.

I don't trespass or taunt peoples dogs. If your dog attacks me in a public thoroughfare, I'm going to shoot it. If I get bitten, you'll see my lawyer's face in your nightmares.

[Catmonkey]

I really don't have an opinion on the issue, but wanted to point out that events like this should be reported to animal control. Many cities have processes in place to deal with aggressive animals and/or their owners. Don't assume the police officer does that.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Catmonkey

I really don't have an opinion on the issue, but wanted to point out that events like this should be reported to animal control. Many cities have processes in place to deal with aggressive animals and/or their owners. Don't assume the police officer does that.

If I shoot somebody's dog, it's a 100% certainty that I'm going to call the police.

The one who calls the cops first gets to be the victim.