Dear Smith and Wesson Forum would a Smith and Wesson .500 magnum revolver with a 4 inch barrel be a good ccw carry gun or would it be to heavy? any and all help in answering this would be greatly appreciated sincerely and respectfully
mg357 a proud member of the Smith and Wesson Forum

One more thing I forgot to foolishly mention when I originally posted this thread was this the kind of concealed carry I am talking about is against animals you know bears bobcats you know dangerous four legged threats Not I repeat Not people.

Only if you're a forensic anthropologist and your name is "Temperance Brennan"...

To heavy, risk of over penetration, ability of accurate follow-up shots.

You are only allowed one of thee questions per year.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

And you used your quota till 2020 already...

Oh, my: may I suggest you try another gun...or not, your choice.

The key would be a quality gun belt.

To be honest, I think anyone would be crazy not to take a long look at the current M&P line of guns. The Glock 19 has long been held in the highest regard by Operators in military, law enforcement, and private security companies.

S&W took the Glock handgun and improved it further with the M&P line. The fact that the fullsize 9mm/.40 models are almost identical in size to the G19 is no coincidence IMO. It is an incredibly concealable gun, has 16+1 capacity, recoil is virtually non existent for follow up shots, and given the large choice of lethal 9mm defense rounds... the M&P9 is really an ideal carry gun. If deeper concealment or a backup gun is desired, the M&P9c fits the role perfect. Or go .40 if thats your cup of tea.

With the option of a thumb safety and the new APEX DCAEK kit to improve the trigger pull, there is really nothing left to not like about the gun. I've had owners of custom 1911s shoot them and they end up buying one.

Just keep in mind, I love a stainless 6 shot S&W, but for CCW we have a responsibility to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and any innocent bystanders. A gun should be chosen as the best possible combat gun when picking a CCW gun. Then get the beauties and classics and fun big bores for plinking!

Just my $0.02.

Steve

Wow, a j frame is about all I can stand as far as weight. Be careful you are not arrested for sagging, and if you carry it four o'clock be aware of any plumbers crack that might be showing.

As it is now 2021 I decree these questions are now allowed once more

one word...overkill!

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"I'm your huckleberry."

Load it with .50 specials.
I would choose the shorter barreled one tho.
I have honestly considered this, then again... I have been known to carry a couple of .44 mag snubbies.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

It would be O K if you didn't use +P

Just how tough of an adversary do you plan on meeting? The cops face the worst of the worst, and a .40 S&W seems to get the job done for them. The military faces unfriendly people and used a .45 acp on them for years until adopting the 9mm.

So unless Sasquatch is after you, I'd go with something else. Anything else.

BIGGER IS BETTER! Keep the questions coming.

Well sure, but you better not miss! Would you feel OK if you were in a crowded bank or store and someone pulled a gun out, and you had to use that .500 with lots of people around? If you hit an innocent person with a .500 round, when a .38 or 9mm would have done the job and not killed an innocent person, may God be with you, because no one else will!

I think some guys who want to carry ridulously powerful weapons for CCW are making up for latent feelings of inadequacy or being small in the pants........

My question is what the heck is so wrong with .38 Special +P's for CC with a revolver?!?! What kind of people do you expect to face, 500 lb. 8' tall giants? At least if you use a .38 or even .357 to defend yourself it is easier to justify.

I would not want to be the guy in court in a wrongful death civil suit trying to justify why I carried a handgun with the power to stop a Grizzly bear and used it on a human being to defend myself and shot through a grocery store 500 yards away, putting a softball sized hole in an innocent bystander who was picking up milk and eggs on the way home from work.........

I am not really disagreeing with you per se, but shot placement is key. Big bullets come at the expense of capacity, which is equally as important as stopping power and shot placement.

The best advice I can give to a new CCW is buy a combat grade 9mm (Glock, M&P, HK, Steyr, etc.) and SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT! buy ammo buy the 1k round box, run some training classes, and get to know your gun the best you can. Big bullets don't help when you can't control them or they run out.

Remember, at the end of the day, handgun bullets poke holes in people, but rifles blow things up. There's no magic round that will stop a person 100% of the time in one shot in handgun calibers, so training and shot placement can be what seperates surviving and going TU.

I agree with the shot placement statement but not with the idea that capacity is equally important as shot placement and stopping power.

What's the average gunfight, one or two rounds? Three? It sure isn't 10, 15, or 20. I would like to hear from the guy who needed his 17th shot after placing the first 16 anywhere close to where he wanted.

Its just more of 2 schools of thought. I would STRONGLY SUGGEST if any of you unfortunately must use your firearm, that you shoot a liberal amount of shots. At the end of the day, handgun rounds really aren't man stoppers (there are some that work better than others, yes, but are less practical).

I am a HUGE fan of the 1911 platform. But I also see the disadvantage of the capacity limit. You gain bigger holes, but limit yourself to 8 or 9 rounds. For a lone mugger 3 feet away in a parking lot, this may be ample. If someone kicks in your door in the middle of the night and you grab your gun and take a defensive position, you're going to wish that magazine held at least 10 more.

Even top shots will be better off with 4-5 rounds per threat, so if a small group of BGs attack, those get ate up quick. A spare mag (essential IMO) helps, but remember the huge adrenaline rush may compramise the reload, especially without training. Which leads to the biggest advantage for CCWs buying 9mm, price / availibility of ammo. Training is far more important than any weapon / caliber.

If you are a confident shooter who has trained and practiced emergency drills, then by all means go .45acp. I never hesitate to carry .45 but I don't think its an ideal round for people new to shooting/CCW. I also think 99% of new shooters/CCW permit holders would be best served by a high capacity Double action only style 9mm service pistol.

But again, this is just my $0.02 and what I've picked up overtime. Get what you are most comfortable with and shoot the living hell out of it! Know your weapon system, in and out, pros and cons...

YMMV

Steve
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I've heard all of this before.

I still want to hear from the man who needed 17 shots in a gunfight.

Then, I'd also like to hear from those who had six in their gun and had ammo left over when it was finished.

What the heck does that mean?

I was taught to deliver the minimum amount of force needed to stop a threat. If one shot puts him on the ground and unwilling to continue the attack, then that's what he gets....if he retreats at the very sight of my weapon, then that's what he gets....if I fire all 5/6 rounds and then have to beat him into unconsciousness with the butt end of my gun, that's what he gets....I don't shoot a whole bunch of rounds and then open my eyes and look to see what happened...and, I sure wouldn't tell anybody else to that either.

Gosh...I sure hope that the OP was kidding...you were kidding right?

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On the Oak Savannah

This might be hi-jacking the intent of this thread, but I think it deserves an answer. I was a civilian LEO before I went into the military and was trained that I was responsible for every bullet that left my gun. Luckily, in my career as a LEO, I never had to shoot, although I had it in my hand and was prepared to do so on a number of occassions.
When I went into the military, I was always the guy that had left over rounds at the end of an exercise or mission, because I had been trained (very well I might add) to always identify my target before engaging, no "spray and pray."
As as staff/instructor navigator on B-52s, I always taught crews that they had to positively identify the target before they could drop; close enough didn't count.
Based on my experiences, I disagree strongly with the above post. Engage the target, evaluate the reaction, and either cease, or engage again. Shooting extra rounds opens up a world of explaining where you would never want to be. It could be twisted to make it look like you enjoy killing.
If all of this is an academic discussion for a zombie novel, no harm-no foul. But it's not that way in the real world.

If you're big enuff and ornery enuff to carry a 50 CCW, you probably don't need a gun.

You could go bear huntin' with a switch!!!

And if you come up against a guy with a j-frame he will most likely put 5 in you before you can get that thing steadied.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Nah... most of those J frames are in a pocket... and if its a scadium .357 the owner generally looses interest in firing it after 1 round anyway.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

And incidentally, illegal in OK for concealed carry (.45 max).

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Science plus Art

I guess if a guy was 6' 12" tall and weighed about 400 LB that'd be a good carry piece against a similar sized guy who was max'ed out on PCP! However, I'm 5' 7" and weight 180 LB, my snubbie Model 66 is about all I want to lug around!

I see one of those .50 revolvers in nearly every gun shop. I always laugh at how ridiculous they are for any practical use. Probably a lot of fun at the range, but that's about it. I always figured the people that buy them do so as a curiousity or just for their collection. I'd imagine you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a person actually carrying one as their CCW except, perhaps, out in bear country where it might actually have some use.

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"... shall not be infringed."

I think you can buy a used howitzer on E Bay for a lot less.

Is this a real question? If so, I feel stupid carrying a J-frame!

I'm waiting for S&W to come out with a Scandium/Ti version of the 500!

Seriously, I recall someone writing, and I think it was on here, about using a 4" 500 for CCW. I carry mine, concealed or open, when I'm in the mountains picking huckleberries or hiking, being that I live in griz country. Not around town though......the thing is pretty hefty and you start listing to the side after a long day of packing it.

While I did not need 17, I did need 12 in a gunfight in '74 (retired LEO). I was carrying my dept. issue Colt DS when I got into a fight with three armed robbers. I emptied my Colt once, reloaded, and emptied it again before the bad guy stopped fighting. If I'd had a Howitzer I would have used that too.

Forgot to add that the .38 stopped the fight then, and I carry a J frame now with confidence. I'd hate to see you carry all that weight and risk overpenetration should you ever need to deploy your .500 - it could be difficult to justify in court, but I'm no lawyer.

i think it would be fine, i carry a cut down ruger #1 in 458 winchester with nite sights myself

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

Another woods carry weapon for backup against large Black Bears or ole Grizz if in that neighborhood.

But these guns tend to be heavy and will drag your pants down to your knees after walking up and down the Mts for hours. In AK I might carry one, otherwise I will pass and elect something lighter for the lower 48.

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NRA Benefactor Member

Strange how the crowd here has changed over the years. Oh well.

A number of people here have toted X Frame revolvers, generally the .500s with reduced loads.

I don't have one myself, I'm told that with a reduced load, recoil is no worse than a decently powered .44 Mag round out of a 4" Model 629/29. I've carried one of those. Carried a Model 58 for a time too. Lots of guys on here have carried full size steel 1911s, N frames, etc.

The general reason behind carrying a relatively large and powerful revolver is when someone is worried about animals as well as people.

Someone will google the question and I don't see why it doesn't deserve a real answer, regardless of the OP's intent.

The first rational and well considered answer I've seen on this thread..... Great post, Gator Farmer!

I've gotta ask how many of these opinionated posters have owned a 500 or have even shot one? If many of you actually considered the minimal weight difference in a 4" N frame and a 4" X frame it might just enlighten you. Anyone who has shot a "heavy" 500 realizes how beautifully controllable it can be, and with light to moderate loads, how unmatched it could be as a very potent self defense weapon and caliber.

The idea everyone would use only hot factory ammo in a 500 negates the realization most would use lighter loaded ammo in the 900 to 1100 fps range, just like most users of other magnum calibers do.

I remember much the same arguments directed at 41 and 44 Mags when they were first developed. Those calibers have certainly proved their usefulness and worth many times over through the years in spite of the unfounded criticisms.

Yea, they're big.... too big for daily carry for many people. But if I had a good idea I was headed into a firefight give me a 500 even with their limited shot capacity. I'd take my chances on making one of the five count even if I had to shoot through brick walls, automobiles, or use it to disable engine blocks....

I own and shoot many of the pistol mentioned on this thread. I carried a 6" 57 as a duty gun for many years. I've hunted big game very successfully for over 30 years (large bull elk and bear) with 41 and 44 N frames. I'm now using a 6.5" 500. I would invite everyone to research the development of the 1911 and why it was created before making a judgment about "adequate man-stoppers" or "too much" stopping power.... Any LEO who has actually faced a PCP hyped adversary will understand what I mean...

JMHO.....

That does it; I'm sold now! A .500 it shall be; the only "rational" choice for SD.

That is, until they come out with a .600 or a .700 or a 25mm and somebody makes the same argument.

No one said that it was the only rational choice. But it can be a perfectly valid one, same as a great many others. Depends on the person.

Most people carry rifles if possible if they go in harm's way. When that isn't possible, they compromise and pick one sort or another of handgun.

And for reference, see the "howdah".

I'm glad you've finally seen the light......

The S&W 500 can easily be carried as a CCW, although there are some drawbacks (as with any other weapon choice). In my experience, the only reasonable way to carry one (especially for an extended period) is in a properly fitted shoulder holster, as it greatly reduces the effect of the weapon's weight, and does not result in pulling your pants down (yes, it is a heavy gun). I carried a 6.5" Model 29 in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster (concealed) for many years, and was never "made." Shortly after I purchased my 8 3/8" barreled 500, I noticed that it actually had better concealment potential than did my old 29, as the grips have a lot less bulk. In fact, I did a mock-up shoulder holster for it, and that massive gun effectively disappears under a light jacket, or even beneath a shirt. One of these days, I'll probably get around to making that shoulder holster, as it would be a much better method of carry than the belt holster, whether it be concealed or out in the woods. A couple of months ago, the guys at my favorited gun shop talked me into buying a 4" 500 in addition, that gun would conceal just as well, again, in a shoulder holster. IWB or other belt carry would just not be practical, IMHO. Although the gun could be concealed quite well, if using the right equipment, there are other considerations which may limit its utility as a CCW. First, there is the potential problem of appearing to be a "mad dog killer" in court if you actually need to use it. There was a case here in Arizona a couple of years ago which culminated in a man being found guilty of a crime, rather than a justified shooting (which it was) because he was portrayed in court by an anti-gun DA in such a way because he was carrying a semi-auto in that horrible, greatly over-powered 10mm cartridge - the horror of it all! Frankly, although I believe in carrying the biggest caliber you can use effectively for defensive purposes, the .500 Mag may result in an invitation to an anti-gun DA to go after you on a similar basis. Seccond, there is also a high risk of over-penetration and the possibility of causing significant down-range damage to property or persons - a 440 grain bullet traveling at 1500-1600 fps is not going to be stopped by almost any human body, and will exit the other side at a pretty high rate of speed, ready to do more damage. Same thing for a 325 grain JSP which left the muzzle at 1877 fps. third item is controllability - although I have never been recoil sensitive, these things definitely let you know you fired them! The 4" has noticeably more recoil than the 8 3/8" version, as well. The potential for rapid, well-aimed follow up shots, or the ability to rapidly engage additional targets, is not as good as guns of most smaller calibers. Another consideration is the 5 shot cylinder of the 500. While this is not, necessarily, a huge disadvantage, reloads are not very fast, and, to my knowledge, there is only one firm which makes speed loaders for them (custom machined of steel or aluminum, and rather expensive). Concealing a speed loader for a 500 may also prove to be another challenge. While I often carry one of my 500's when out in the wild (which can be only a few hundred yards from my house), especially since we have a pretty healthy bear population up here in the White Mountains, and a lot of bears that don't fear humans, I generally don't consider either of the 500s very practical for CCW as a defensive weapon in most "civilized" scenarios, for the foregoing reasons. Oh yeah, one other thing - although I mocked up a shoulder rig (vertical) for the 500, if i decide to make one, I have been considering setting it up with an additional off-side holster which could carry my Mossberg 500 with an 18" barrel (have to install the pistol grip instead of the "standard" wood buttstock I normally have on it). Now that would be a lot of firepower for a CCW rig!

My mod 360 is much more difficult to control than my 500 mag with full loads. I have been considering replacing the 357 with the 500 for daily carry but I'm having a hard time finding a good ankle holster for it!

I carry a 5" 629 "Classic" (full-underlug) .44mag, from pajamas-off until pajamas-on, every day. In a homemade under-the-shirt cloth vertical shoulder holster. Very comfortable and well-concealed. Could I carry a 6-1/2" X500 in something similar? I don't know, but I suspect I could.

I'm now not so sure I could. S&W's webpage no longer shows the 6-1/2" X500 as available ... only two are listed: a 4" and an 8-1/2". The 4" weighs 55.6 oz, versus 44.7 for my 5" 629. That's a bigger difference than I expected. I could probably carry it in my homemade cloth shoulder holster rig, but I would probably be well aware of its weight, and probably wouldn't be completely comfortable carrying it all my waking hours like I am with my 5" 629.

You'll get tired of carrying all that weight really fast.
Ammo is too expensive for a sufficient amount of practice shooting.

O no get yourself a 600 nitro and stick that in your pants

As soon as I can find a holster, I'm using this for concealed carry. Follow-up shots might be a bit difficult but a properly placed first shot will most likely do the job.

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WHY???????????

If you're man enought to conceal carry a 500Mag I'm not real sure you even need a gun. Oh my!

I carry tiny little things that I can carry without holsters - not very effective perhaps, but I always have one or more. My typical carry is a Keltec P3AT .380 with the laser so it has any hope of hitting humans at 25 yds or a car engine area at 50. I also carry a little .22 NAA as a reserve, and a decent max length folding knife.

That is on my person. I live in my cars. Even when away, I am not far away. My 2 1/2 in (or whatever that is) .500SW is frequently in my glove box or console, as is one of my Witness 10mms. I shoot alot, but there is always a utility rifle of some sort in the trunk as well - often an old beater bolt action thing like a Mauser or Mosin or the current little Steyr M95 - or a beater AR or AK.

First thing not raised is utility against vehicles. Road attacks are extremely common - and by far the most likely I am to run into, pardon the pun. Here a much higher power round like the .500 or .454 comes into its own (I also sometimes carry my 9.5in SRH .454 instead of the .500.) In today's metro areas, gas stations, etc., the ability to quickly disable a car may be far more critical than quickly drawing and firing an assaulting pedestrian.

A decent high powered round should easily be able to destroy critical components such as fuel injection, ignition, timing chains or even upper valve train if fired at the high center of the engine compartment - front the front or especially from the side. (Forget aiming to flatten tires or radiator or other such minor targets - aim for what will make it rapidly stop as you rapidly get away from it.)

Now some huge negatives:

SOUND!!! I dropped any thought of carrying .45 after I tried shooting both of mine with no hearing protectors. Within 3 rounds I had tinnitus for the day and was nearly stunned. Oddly 800ft-lb 10mm doesn't have this effect, although .223 pistols do as well. I am never go to try my .454 or .500 that way. I know if i have to fire it, I will experience severe piercing pain from the first shot. How many try that with the gun they carry every day? You should.

My .500 is a stunningly accurate pistol, for all of its silly little barrel. Nevertheless, after a couple of cylinders, I'm flinching decently - oddly less than with my .454. If I had to shoot that double action? I might as well throw it at them.

Flash, oddly, many consider, but I find not that bad. I've had the opportunity to shoot a fair amount near and after dark and had little crippling effect from it.

Others mentioned the reloading aspect and 5 round capacity. (I didn't know anyone made speedloaders! I've been looking! I found some clever ammo holding strips from Midway or Brownell's that are handy for carrying the ammo, but no actual speedloaders!)

I think too much concern is given to hitting bystanders. Don't get me wrong there - if you do and you aren't working for the state, you are in terrible shape. (Don't get me wrong there, either - you will be in some trouble if you're behind a badge too, if you hit or kill a third party in a gun fight, but the odds are it won't involve a criminal conviction, day in jail or dollar out of your personal bank account.)

Anyhow, the reason is simple probability. ANY medium or more powered round COULD, of course, hit someone else - and many could do it AFTER hitting the bad guy - but although it happens, it's extremely unlikely except int he most crowded of situations, where one is not as likely to be attacked in the first place.

Some of this can be ameliorated with the use of fragmenting bullets or reduced loads - but that somewhat defeats the purpose (although a 2000 ft-lb bullet disintegrating inside a bad guy is pretty much like a death ray hit!)

My little "HellBoy BackUp" is not really that heavy or large. I live in too warm a climate for even sportscoats outside most of the year, so I don't carry on a hip in other than an IWB, but it would be as doable as a full sized ParaOrd ore one of my fullsized steel Witnesses. Possibly it could be carried in some IWB rig, but I have never tried.

For an in-car or at home or very cold weather/backwoods option - it is not that bad a choice. On the person, somewhat less so.

OhOhOh....in Texas country, don't forget use on feral hogs which are overrunning everywhere and pretty aggressive - although I think I would prefer more rounds with less recoil, like from one of my 10mm's.

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NFA/50BMG/308/500SW/10 Shooter