.380 FMJ penetration

MrJT · Apr 17, 2013

After a recent discussion on .380, I noticed this video as I was searching for various ballistic tests on multiple calibers.

Some of you may have seen it, some may not have. What struck me is how well the FMJ will penetrate.

As mentioned in the video, there are other variables (bone) that would exist.

.380 Full Metal Jacket in Ballistic Gel - YouTube

MrJT · Apr 17, 2013

The gentleman has at least two tests done using JHP. The penetration was only 10" in one and 8" in the other.

Kanewpadle · Apr 17, 2013

MrJT said:
After a recent discussion on .380, I noticed this video as I was searching for various ballistic tests on multiple calibers.

Some of you may have seen it, some may not have. What struck me is how well the FMJ will penetrate.

As mentioned in the video, there are other variables (bone) that would exist.

.380 Full Metal Jacket in Ballistic Gel - YouTube

As much as I despise the 380, FMJ may be a good option. However since it won't expand, you better be real good with your chosen platform and hit your target.

Erich · Apr 17, 2013

However since it won't expand, you better be real good with your chosen platform and hit your target.

The same is true with any round from a handgun, of course: if you want to be sure the person stops aggression right now, damage the heart/aorta or brain/upper spinal cord. Shot-placement and adequate penetration.

As I've said here before, I've never worked on a .380 FMJ shooting in which the bullet failed to adequately penetrate (even with massive assailants), but I've worked on three .380 JHP shootings in which they did. (I've also only seen one arguable overpenetration with a .380 FMJ in a shooting case, and that hit the first person in the lower leg.)

USAF385 · Apr 17, 2013

Nice video. I've done similar tests in the past with the .380 and had the same results as far as penetration goes.

venomballistics · Apr 17, 2013

Erich said:
The same is true with any round from a handgun, of course: if you want to be sure the person stops aggression right now, damage the heart/aorta or brain/upper spinal cord. Shot-placement and adequate penetration.

As I've said here before, I've never worked on a .380 FMJ shooting in which the bullet failed to adequately penetrate (even with massive assailants), but I've worked on three .380 JHP shootings in which they did. (I've also only seen one arguable overpenetration with a .380 FMJ in a shooting case, and that hit the first person in the lower leg.)

there is some good advice in there where the 380 goes.
it just don't take well to whiz bang projectiles as other calibers do.

I'm not sure why the OP brings it up .. we just ran a 380 thread to death and the conclusions are just contusions.
There's almost no reason to carry a 380 as even 45 has found a home in a pocket sized mighty mouse

MrJT · Apr 17, 2013

venomballistics said:
I'm not sure why the OP brings it up .. we just ran a 380 thread to death and the conclusions are just contusions.
There's almost no reason to carry a 380 as even 45 has found a home in a pocket sized mighty mouse

Oh man, I'm sorry! I forgot I had to run my posts by you and my reasoning for them BEFORE I post. It won't happen again.

No reason to carry a .380. OK. Weight, size, and bulk aside you're absolutely right.

With good placement, the .380 FMJ has the penetration to be lethal. It's been said over and over but a well placed shot with a .380 is better than a poorly placed shot with a .45. Hit an attacker with a few .380 FMJs and you'll do some damage. That's the point of the video. .380 FMJ can penetrate! Is it the best choice for combat? No, but neither is the .45.

GyMac · Apr 17, 2013

venomballistics said:
There's almost no reason to carry a 380 as even 45 has found a home in a pocket sized mighty mouse

What if .380 is all you have or you just happen to like the caliber? To each his own.

Protected One · Apr 17, 2013

I'd love to watch someone try to shoot 3-6 well controlled rounds....FROM A POCKET SIZE .45! Those pockets must be on Shaq's pants.
Many people can't manage the recoil of a full-size .45 well enough to quickly place follow up shots. Pocket size guns aren't made in "big calibers for a reason....

Kanewpadle · Apr 17, 2013

Protected One said:
I'd love to watch someone try to shoot 3-6 well controlled rounds....FROM A POCKET SIZE .45! Those pockets must be on Shaq's pants.
Many people can't manage the recoil of a full-size .45 well enough to quickly place follow up shots. Pocket size guns aren't made in "big calibers for a reason....

Come on now. That's not the issue and you know it. Matter of fact we all know it. Even those that carry a pocket 380.

The issue is that people don't want to be bothered with a holster and they need a gun that will fit in their pocket. God forbid they have to wear a belt, pants one size bigger, a loose outer garment, or jacket.

No, it's just easier to drop a 380 in the pocket and go. So because they don't want to be honest and tell the truth they offer excuses. The same old excuses that simply don't work anymore.

Ever feel the recoil of a Ruger LCP or Kel Tec P3AT? I rest my case. And in the last several years more sub compact guns have been designed, manufactured and sold than ever before. So what does that tell you? I rest my case again.

venomballistics · Apr 17, 2013

Protected One said:
I'd love to watch someone try to shoot 3-6 well controlled rounds....FROM A POCKET SIZE .45! Those pockets must be on Shaq's pants.
Many people can't manage the recoil of a full-size .45 well enough to quickly place follow up shots. Pocket size guns aren't made in "big calibers for a reason....

Springfield XDs - YouTube
there ya go

Kanewpadle · Apr 17, 2013

venomballistics said:
Springfield XDs - YouTube
there ya go

I knew you were gonna go there so I didn't!

venomballistics · Apr 18, 2013

Kanewpadle said:
I knew you were gonna go there so I didn't!

its almost too easy

to be honest, I dont have, nor have I test driven the XDs 45 personally. Ive been keeping an eye on it to see how it shakes down. Thus far they seem to be holding up.
The thing is, it really kicks the 380's puppy.
if this trend holds, and there is every reason for it to. there really will be next to no reason to make concessions down to 380

Protected One · Apr 18, 2013

venomballistics said:
Springfield XDs - YouTube
there ya go

I looked at the video and I have to admit - I like that gun!
However, the video said its the same size as the M&P Shield. Now, if I put my shield in my pocket its going to look like I'm awful glad to see somebody

Don't get me wrong, the shield CAN be pocket carried if one has BIG pockets and doesn't mind printing some, but I prefer mine IWB/OWD. Having said that, I'm going to be keeping an eye out for one because that looks like it would be a "sweet" carry option - when I'm not pocket carrying.

Protected One · Apr 18, 2013

GyMac said:
What if .380 is all you have or you just happen to like the caliber? To each his own.

That's what it comes down to!

venomballistics · Apr 18, 2013

Protected One said:
I looked at the video and I have to admit - I like that gun!
However, the video said its the same size as the M&P Shield. Now, if I put my shield in my pocket its going to look like I'm awful glad to see somebody
Don't get me wrong, the shield CAN be pocket carried if one has BIG pockets and doesn't mind printing some, but I prefer mine IWB/OWD. Having said that, I'm going to be keeping an eye out for one because that looks like it would be a "sweet" carry option - when I'm not pocket carrying.

we also have to bear in mind that the thing is feeding off a mag full of trash can sized 45. some engineer somewhere has switched from walking to strutting for this achievement.
what would the same treatment do around a 40 cal, or a 9MM?
Kahr has been doing exactly that though I don't think they've every achieved the reliability of the XDs.
Of the issues that have been surfacing with it, they all seem to be cases of people running their guns bone dry and a few cases of minor mag issues.
I'm kinda anxious to see if Springfield will pursuit further trimming of the pistol to accommodate 40 and 9

Protected One · Apr 18, 2013

venomballistics said:
we also have to bear in mind that the thing is feeding off a mag full of trash can sized 45. some engineer somewhere has switched from walking to strutting for this achievement.
what would the same treatment do around a 40 cal, or a 9MM?
Kahr has been doing exactly that though I don't think they've every achieved the reliability of the XDs.
Of the issues that have been surfacing with it, they all seem to be cases of people running their guns bone dry and a few cases of minor mag issues.
I'm kinda anxious to see if Springfield will pursuit further trimming of the pistol to accommodate 40 and 9

Seems to me like they can only reduce the platform size to a certain point before the pressure is too great for it to handle. A polymer framed .45 acp, the size of a LCP or Bodyguard(for example) seems impossible, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't carry one! Now that I think of it....I'm gonna just "keep an eye" on the xds for awhile. Lets see if one explodes in somebodies hand.

venomballistics · Apr 18, 2013

Protected One said:
Seems to me like they can only reduce the platform size to a certain point before the pressure is too great for it to handle. A polymer framed .45 acp, the size of a LCP or Bodyguard(for example) seems impossible, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't carry one! Now that I think of it....I'm gonna just "keep an eye" on the xds for awhile. Lets see if one explodes in somebodies hand.

pressure is primarily contained by the barrel. The XDs seems to be on par with a 1911 in terms of barrel wall thickness while the chamber area looks to be a little thicker. The ability to hold pressure isn't the failure Im watching for. I'm looking for slide and frame destruction which doesn't seem to be happening ... yet. What is surfacing is a tendency of the new CCW set to overlook gun care. They take em out of the case, untouched from the store, straight to the range and burn ammo till they choke. When they do choke, they get a puzzled look when you ask them "did you clean it?"

In one vid, this guy just got his back from the factory. It honestly looked like Springfield gave it a once over, reassembled it, tossed it in a bucket of oil then wiped off the exterior. I think they've seen so many dry guns, they probably have a service tech who does this to make a point about lube.
he gripes and pitches a bit of a fit about it, but in a later vid you see the same guy showing you how to lube the XDs in sane fashion.

I've yet to see one that has fallen apart due to frame battering or cracked slides. If I don't see a few by this summer, I just might jump on one.

K1500 · Apr 22, 2013

The .380 is a good gun to carry when you can't carry a gun, and its a heck of a lot better that nothing. I would much rather carry or have my wife carry a .380 than to go unarmed.

Lost Lake · Apr 23, 2013

The endless debate.

I took the warden and two of my kids out to our little range this past weekend. I wanted the warden to fire a few guns and see which she would prefer to keep on her nightstand.

She didn't care for the 642 grip or long trigger.
She liked the 9c.
She liked the Shield.
She liked the 3913.
She liked the 4513.
She hated the BG380.

All of these are small guns, easily concealed. My son (11) my daughter (17) and the warden all preferred the small 9s and even the small 45 to the 380.

.

.380 FMJ penetration

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