Here are some different variations:
Rastoff's Challenge II
Rastoff's Challenge III - Different Positions

I've intentionally avoided timed shooting. Most people either don't have a good timer or access to a range where it's allowed. If you're really interested in a timed challenge, I have a good one. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you the details of what I use to put myself under pressure.

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Freedom isn't free.

Since this very entertaining thread has resurfaced to remind me, I decided to give it a go at the range today. Fortunately, I don't lug around a lot of delusions about my abilities, so I wasn't surprised when it turned out I couldn't even come close to besting Mr. Rastoff. Still, it's fun and a good way to make me try to pay attention.

My local indoor range doesn't allow shooting closer than five yards, but I don't think that would have made a huge difference anyway. The flyers were from 10 and 7.



Next time I'll bring my 1911, but I'm not harboring any particularly high expectations.

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Jim - M&P Pro 40L/Shield 40

Great shooting with all of the guns you tried today! Really great.

I have shot a few targets that look similar to yours. Keep trying . This one is fun!!!

I now use this challenge as a warm up for every handgun when I go to the range. The first 20 rounds I put through every pistol is this challenge. It is a great way to get started.

Shot this today with my SAR K2-45. I must admit I'm not very good about practicing a double action first shot. (especially since this has to be manually decocked) So the only part that was hard was the 7 yd and 10 yd DA shots. Didn't quite keep them all inside the line, but they all touched. This is a reduced size copy where the 10 ring is 2" x 3" (not the X ring)

^^^^^^^^^
Great shooting! Not familiar with that gun. I will have to look it up.

Took my three M&Ps to the range today (two 45s and one 9) and tried the challenge again. Started off with two hands and no time limit.



The first two were with my M&P45 with the RM02



The next two are with my M&P45 with factory sights: Night sight up front and painted on the rear.



The next was my M&P9 with factory night sight up front and painted dots on rear



I then tried the M&P9 strong hand only with no time limit


I was successful with each gun except the M&P9 with two hands. Go figure.

Keith

Holy cripe!!!!!

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MSP - Retired

Keith: This is probably illegal. :-)

Great shooting, I couldn't do that shooting from a rest.

Shot this today with my S&W Shield. Some folks want to dismiss the Shield as a "back up gun," but it's my EDC and I don't feel under-armed with it at all. Only had one shot touch the line, one of the 10 yarders. Again, this is a reduced copy where the 10 ring is 3 x 2, not the X.

I also shot this with my GP100. This gun doesn't get shot double action all that much, but I did shoot all these DA, and with full power .357 ammo. The one outlier that barely touches the outer line was, oddly enough, one of the 5 yd shots.

Very good shooting Keith. You obviously have a steady hand and straight trigger press.

PM me your address and I'll ship you out a patch.

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Freedom isn't free.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, once I got to my goal with two hands I needed to up my game and try it with strong hand only. I took only revolvers today and shot all three double action only. I started off with my target 38. Yup, I know, not a gun I'd carry concealed but I needed a confidence booster. It is the easiest wheel gun I have to shoot accurately and I fudged even further by using 148 grain WW wadcutter white box. Yup, very old and scary accurate. The gun is a Bowen custom Model 16 that has been rechambered to a match 38 specification, a Model 17 barrel rebored to .3565" with a 14" twist (ala Python) and the best action on any wheelgun I've ever tried.



Shooting indoors I immediately found out that at 5 and 7 yards where there was no direct light on the target the sights sort of blended right into the target. I wasn't until the bullet holes let through enough light to silhouette my front sight that I could see it real well. Very challenging.

Next I tried my 686+ practice carry gun with some very stout practice reloads. 4.2 of Bulleye is good for about 1150fps. Snappy recoil, but the tritium from sight gave me just enough reference to see the front sight pretty well.


This is a really cool challenge. Next is weak hand but I don't expect success any time soon.

Keith

I'm glad you're having fun with it. Get the patch yet?

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Freedom isn't free.

Patch received. Very, very cool. Thanks.
Keith

Keith, simply amazing shooting!!! Very impressive.

Got the range again finally with my new to me DW Guardian in .45. It hits a bit high, but is plenty accurate for me! Indoor range has stops at 25', 50'and 75', so all of these were at 25'. 22 shots in there, not sure if the low shot was this group or the group below on the body.



Getting cold and windier here as the winter starts up, so I will try to get some better pics at the outdoor range where I can vary the range to do the actual challenge.

Finally passed the challenge, with none touching the line. Made it by a good margin, too. The 10 ring is 3" x 2", not the X. I measure the group right at 1 1/2". This was 20 shots cold with my SAR K2-45.

Nice shooting shaky.

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U.S. Army (Retired)

Hmmm, no PM yet.

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Freedom isn't free.

Well, that's great stuff.

Do you also instruct situational awareness, and being

alert to where you are, what you're doing?

Because two-thirds of the battle is in not putting yourself into,

or being in, a situation where shooting is needed, in the first

place, right?

Because target practice is arguably worthwhile, even though

most defensive encounters are going to be very close range.

Tight groups are going to damage the same tissue, rather

than opening the group up to do more tissue damage. Tight

groups are also going to take more time, at a point when

tenths of a second count...

Looks like another troll to me.

Yup, I think he missed the point of this exercise.

Targets printed, headed to the range on Wednesday.
Will post the results.

Almost time for me to try round 2. Shot 8rnds at 10yds last week and had them all within an open hand. Still learning to control exactly when I want each round to go off. Focus, focus, focus....

Are you sure it's 2/3rds and not 7/8ths? How about 9/16ths?

Seriously, there is a lot I teach that is not included here.

Target practice is always valuable. There are different kinds of practice though. I believe it is important to practice both precision and speed. This is a precision exercise.

No, this is abjectly incorrect. If you're going to question what we're doing here, use accurate analogies. Two shots through the same hole will have the effect of one shot. Two shots that are close, by definition, will damage different tissue.

Speed and accuracy are two different, yet related, aspects of shooting. If we had all the time in the world, like this challenge, we can be very accurate. If we go absolutely as fast as we can, the pair will not be very accurate. It's likely that we'll miss the target altogether.

The goal is to find the balance between speed and accuracy that is the most effective in a self-defense scenario. To do this it is valuable to first determine just how accurate we can be. Hence the value of this challenge. Then, once we know we can put a few rounds close together, start shooting controlled pairs. To judge how well we're doing with controlled pairs, examine the distance between the two. The standard is two shots within a fist sized group in the thoracic cavity:

• If they are not within the thoracic cavity, start over by practicing your precision.
• If they are closer than a fist, speed up.
• If they are further than a fist, slow down.

No timer is necessary, but it is fun to use one. The idea is to go as fast as you can while hitting the intended target and keeping the pair close enough to each other.

A lot of guys have come here and said this isn't representative of the real world. Well no duh! They go on to say that we should be shooting while moving, one handed, at different targets...blah, blah, blah. That stuff is indeed a great thing to work toward, but not possible for many. Some don't have a range that will allow that. Some are physically unable. So, I've devised a simple challenge that anyone can shoot at just about any range and is difficult enough to make us work at it.

Now, I've taken the time to answer your questions politely. Are you going to try the challenge or is it too difficult for you? Hmmm? If this is not your bag, try my Challenge II or III. They are different and maybe more representative of what you're looking for.

***For the record: I don't think you're a troll, but at least try the challenge before critiquing it.***

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Freedom isn't free.

A mental exercise that I use when trying for high precision is, "Build pressure on the trigger." All I'm trying to do is build pressure while holding the front sight on target.

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Freedom isn't free.

It may have to wait a few more days.
Just got my nose cauterized yesterday.
Yay.

Wouldn't want to be bleeding all over your pistol.

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MSP - Retired

Trying to shoot on Percocet is not high on my list of things to do.

Great shooting guys

Yeah, that would not be a good plan. Wise choice. We'll still be here when you get healed up.

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Freedom isn't free.

I was finally able to get out to the range today.
I brought my SW PC 1911 and my Kimber Pro Carry II along with a few different brands and types of ammo.
I warmed up with about 50 rounds and "got my mind right" and proceeded with the challenge with the PC 1911.

Here's the first target using Winchester 230gr Train and Defend FMJ:



No all too bad but I knew I could do better so I switched to WC 200gr HAP Match Reloads:



Close, but no cigar.
Loaded up the WC 200gr HAP Match Factory ammo and had at it.



Talk about nerve wracking! I was finally able to nail the 10 yard shots which were my downfall with the previous tries.

Beaming and full of success I tried it with my Kimber 4" Pro Carry II and failed miserably. Completely different trigger feel.
Next time, I'll get it with the Kimber.

Thanks for the challenge!!!

Blackhorse, very good shooting. Try it again without warming up, that is one of the Boss' (Rastoff) suggestions.

Wow, you guys are really giving a newbie something to shoot for (pun intended). I've only been shooting for less than a month (I bought my first gun on Black Friday and went to the range with my son-in-law on Saturday, the 28th).

The best (and I emphasize the word "best") I've been able to do are represented by the two photos below. The silhouette target was at 15' (5 yards). Six shots to the torso, six to the head. I was high on two of the head shots, and low and to the left on most of the others (which is, I understand, grip-related).

The circle target was at 12' (4 yards), also 12 rounds.

I was shooting Blazer Brass 124gr FMJ. My gun was my soon-to-be concealed carry Sig P938 (don't worry guys, the M&P Pro is my fun/range gun!).

With practice, I hope I can approach the same neighborhood as you!

First of all blackhorse2010, all three of those targets are very good. Further, they are better than most I see regardless of gun, trigger, ammo or warm up shots. However...
...this does exceed two of the parameters in the OP.

Since this is posted in the Concealed Carry & Self Defense forum, I wanted to make the challenge with that in mind. We don't get warm up shots when we have to defend ourselves. Therefore, the ides is to shoot it cold; the first 20 shots of the day.

When I practice, I feel the first two shots I take are the most important. They are the closest I'll ever get to a defensive situation on the street without being in a real one. So, those two shots tell me how I might do in the real world (I add pressure with a timer). Also, we don't get to select the gun. What we brought with us is what we have to use. The same could be said for this challenge. It's one aspect that makes this challenge so challenging.

The first part is to use a gun, any gun, that you do or might carry for self-defense. Do you use your full size 1911 S&W Performance Center, with specially tuned trigger and slide, for regular carry? If you do, then it's the perfect gun for this challenge. If you don't, then it doesn't really meet the spirit.

The second aspect is to use the gun as you would use it on the street. The 1911 has a slight advantage here because they have a great single action trigger and that's how they are used all the time. I use a 1911 myself. The gun pictured in the OP is one I carry regularly.

Brother, you are an amazing shot. Seriously, one of the best in this thread. Don't take what I said above as a criticism. It's just an explanation of what I laid down in the OP. It's hard and it's supposed to be hard. You're right there.

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Freedom isn't free.

I actually OWB carry the PC during colder months or with any weather requiring a jacket of sweatshirt, such as we have now.
During the summer I IWB carry the 4" Kimber.
I missed the part about not warming up, but the challenge was fun regardless.
I'll hit the range again in a week or so and give it a go cold.

Thanks again!
Steve

Thank you for playing with us. You really are a good shot and I like hanging with guys who can shoot. Makes me feel safer.

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Freedom isn't free.

Finally made it with a double action revolver. GP100 4", and with .357 ammo, too. The group was a hair smaller than 1 1/2".

Nice shooting, Shaky!

Hey Mr. Shaky. That's about as good as it gets.

Still trying.

Nope.

Darned one bullet!!

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MSP - Retired

Good stuff. Keep at it!

Actually, seven. Six "touches".

Here's another great drill that incorporates some time pressure while working from the holster.

"It goes to 11" (Yes, there's a Spinal Tap reference there).

https://youtu.be/D4Kz4GP6tQo

Developed by my buddy, Matt Cole from Cole Partnerships and Training now based in Central Texas.

It truly is a "challenge" to set aside a well running 1911 and trying this with my Brick... errr Glock 22. This pistol was a mystery to me, but it's getting somewhat better.

Today's time was spent evaluating handloads.


I shot two- the Kimber target wasn't any better than I posted on #446... but the one below I'm posting? I got all 20 on the paper!

My last range visit a few weeks ago .. only shot at 10 yards 30 feet ..
was shooting Winchester White Box 40S&W 180 grain FMJ ..

Edit - can't seem to get picture to show. anyway 10 shots @ 10 yards 1.75 inch group .. will see if I can get the picture to show ..

how does the Webley Tempest shoot ?? I get my RWS out every once in awhile ..