Considering a Rossi M92 for HD...

And would appreciate your input. It is chambered in 45 LC and has a 16 inch barrel. Yes, I know that most people are going to recommend a 12 or 20 gauge barrel pump shotgun, but that makes it that much harder to maneuver around corners in the house. I suppose over penetration of sheet rock walls is a concern for the short rifle, but so would be buckshot loads from a 12 gauge pump. I am considering this gun due to high crime in the nearby town (including home invasions) and want something effective, but at the same time a "long gun" that can't be called an "assault rifle", for the simple reason that even in a home invasion scenario a prosecutor is likely to capitalize on the fact that you used an AR or Ak and use the bad press those weapons have received to paint you in a bad light. I am just looking for input on this choice of weapon from the forum members. Your thoughts, anyone?

I believe Jeff Cooper once wrote that a pistol caliber lever gun would make an excellent home defense weapon in those jurisdictions that frown on handguns. Personally, I'd want something cheaper to practice with, like one chambered in .357, but if you are willing to put in the time needed to get proficient with it, I wouldn't argue against it.

I keep a Rossi .357 with shells in a holder on the stock handy. Not sure I would pick it over a handgun, though, for bumps in the night. It would be my "gall-back" while waiting for the cavalry.

MichiganScott said:

I believe Jeff Cooper once wrote that a pistol caliber lever gun would make an excellent home defense weapon in those jurisdictions that frown on handguns. Personally, I'd want something cheaper to practice with, like one chambered in .357, but if you are willing to put in the time needed to get proficient with it, I wouldn't argue against it.

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That sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for your input Scott.

I have a Rossi 92 in .357, and although I don't rely on it for home defense, I wouldn't feel undergunned if I did.

I keep a M92 .357 behind the bedroom door, loaded with 158 gr. .38 SWC. They really fly out of a 16" barrel, light recoil, low flash.

It's my PC HD.

I live in Boulder, I figure it's more PC to defend my home with a lever gun than an evil looking black gun.

petepeterson said:

I keep a Rossi .357 with shells in a holder on the stock handy. Not sure I would pick it over a handgun, though, for bumps in the night. It would be my "gall-back" while waiting for the cavalry.

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My reasoning over a handgun is the extra power imparted by the longer barrel- longer, but not so long as to be an impediment to moving around from one room to another, if need be. I have read figures at "ballistics by the inch" at nearly 800 fp for some loads in this caliber. And then lighter loads can be used for less penetration hazard, if wanted. I was considering a Marlin auto rifle in 9mm instead, but it was snapped up before I could get it and they don't make them anymore. I do like lever guns though.

A handgun is much more practical anytime you must move through your home(such as you have family members in separate rooms) due to the ability to effectively use it one handed and it's maneuverability(navigating corners, weapon retention, unseen threats, operating doors, light switches). A long gun can be a good option for when you have taken up a fixed position(designated "safe room" etc.), but even then, consider the angles you have to work with(firing from your specific cover location)band the likelihood of needing to go mobile based on the layout of your home. If committing to a long gun, I myself would prefer a rifle or shotgun using true rifle/cartridges for their far greater power and/or capacity offered than a lever action revolver caliber carbine. The Rossi would likely work in most scenarios, but I'd honestly feel better armed and prepared with a quick handling high-capacity semi-automatic handgun.

I have a Rossi in .357. I have never thought of it as a home SD gun for various reasons. Although the gun is accurate and simple to use, it can not be used with one hand, it is very slow to load, and it doesn't hold very many rounds. I rely on my handguns for my first choice of home defense, then my Mossi 12 gauge, followed by my AR. My last choice would be the Rossi. Even my Remington Nylon 66 in 22LR would see use before the Rossi.

My Rossi is fun to shoot, dependable, very accurate and has it's place as a range and hunting rifle, but not as a home SD weapon. Just my $0.02....

I have a Rossi in 357. It is in the safe but I would not hesitate to use it for home defense.That is one of the reasons I bought it .I thought it would look more non threatning to gun phobes if I ever had to use it.By the way I have had it since late 80s and I believe Col Coopers writing gave me the idea

Every firearm I own above .22LR is kept loaded with SD rounds. My Rossi 92 in .357 is always loaded with 158 JSP for HD. It would only be my first choice for black bear, the 12GA is first for two-legged threats.

I was looking at the gun you describe until I priced 45LC ammo, and saw the very limited selection. If you don't reload, I would get the .357. If your determined to go 45LC, there is also a Rossi in .454 Casull that gives you the option of high pressure hunting rounds along with the 45LC.

One benefit to a pistol caliber from a carbine barrel for HD, is that it is much quieter than from a handgun, and the ballistic properties are improved. May not be best for close quarters work but the crescent buttplates are pointy and sharp enough to be deadly.

YMMV, but I pour ammo through that lever action .357. I love shooting it, as do my friends and relatives, and employees and patrons at the gun club.

Woodsman22 said:

My reasoning over a handgun is the extra power imparted by the longer barrel- longer, but not so long as to be an impediment to moving around from one room to another, if need be. I have read figures at "ballistics by the inch" at nearly 800 fp for some loads in this caliber. And then lighter loads can be used for less penetration hazard, if wanted. I was considering a Marlin auto rifle in 9mm instead, but it was snapped up before I could get it and they don't make them anymore. I do like lever guns though.

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I agree with your reasoning, but prefer the handgun for the repeating capability. If I had to hunker down in my bedroom, the Rossi would be putting .357 JSPs through the drywall. It's also nice to have the ammo compatibility. The .38s in the speedstrips work in all the guns in a pinch.

If you're worried about appearances using a lever action is walking right into the cowboy gambit. Have you considered a Mini-14 or M1 Carbine or similar? I don't care for either compared to an AR, but they offer the wood stock look and are semi-auto with detachable box magazines and will be easier to shoot. The Mini-14 is also a rifle caliber.

I do not believe pistol bullets gain much from a carbine, but a rifle caliber is a big step up in wounding potential compared to a pistol caliber carbine and should strongly be considered.

I have put only a few rounds through a lever action. A Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum. I found it to be harder to load than a shotgun, had poorer sights than an EBR or combat shotgun, and it took a brisk stroke to ensure a clean cycle. I also found that the magnum rounds had more recoil than expected, but specials were more enjoyable and you could stuff an extra one in the tube.

The .357 Magnum is a great choice if one wants a pistol caliber carbine for self defense. On average, the 18 inch barrel doubles the power of .38 special and .357 magnum rounds, with very little recoil, no flash, basically the ease and handling of a big .22 magnum, with the power of a 24 inch barrel .223. The effect of a flat nosed, 158 grain jacketed soft point, full power .357 magnum load out of the carbine is absolutely destructive. You can get around 1850 fps out of a 158 grain bullet, around 1,200 ft lbs. of energy, and the bullets tend to deliver it beautifully into many objects, and especially tissue. As has been stated, I have better choices with my large arsenal, but I wouldn't feel a tiny bit out gunned if all I had was my Winchester 94 AE, knowing how lethal it is with full power rounds.

The .44 Magnum in pistol carbine doesn't have the same percentage on average upgrade in power like the .357 does, more around 60% ballpark increase instead of around 100% for the smaller magnum, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would doubt the killing power of a .44 Magnum rifle. The 45LC? That is another story, I suppose. Its a fine caliber for a pistol carbine, alright, but in self defense in a non auto loading long gun? I don't doubt a full house .357 Magnum, or a 44 Magnum, because they are extremely capable of stopping a fight with one center mass shot with the kind of carnage they can cause, but the lower power standard .45LC, even with the longer barrel, may not have that kind of ability.

Yes, suggesting a .223 or 30 carbine auto loader instead is good advice, but to stay more on OP's point, I think that although a pistol lever action carbine isn't the best choice, its certainly far from the worst, and far better than a handgun. If its a gun you enjoy shooting, something you use competitively and have become accustomed and well adjusted to, become "one with the gun", or find that you can more easily handle a pistol carbine, perhaps its a good choice. I still would suggest perhaps the more powerful magnum cartridges instead. If you can't shoot more than one round at a time without mechanical cycling, try to stick to a cartridge that finishes the job in one hit.

Don't worry about "black guns" giving you a bad time in a self defense situation's aftermath. The situation, not your gun or ammunition, is the problem. Lots of talk about how bullet and gun selection are potential problems, yet few cases are presented to prove the point.

Woodsman22: If you choose to use a clone of the Winchester Model 1892 for home defense, have a real, trade-school trained, gunsmith do the necessary smoothing and slicking. The goal is to produce a smoothly functioning carbine with a 4 pound to 5 pound trigger, topped with sight suited to rapid use in reduced light. All traditional-style lever actions need professional help: just ask any seriously competitive Cowboy Action Shooter for detailed explanation. Better yet, shoot an out-of-the-box carbine alongside a properly slicked up unit. Forget about short-action conversions and light triggers: a negligent discharge can cause such trouble you can't even imagine. As far as the cartridge, factory loads topped with jacketed hollow-point bullets in .357 Magnum, .44 magnum or .45 Colt will work just fine for home defense. For defense purposes, I'd prefer a Holographic sight or a red dot: good ones, no cheap junk. A peep sight with a big ghost ring rear and a large flat-faced bead front sight will work in low light if you have young eyes: I don't. And then get some training and do some regular practice. Good luck!

Thanks for all the replies

" As far as the cartridge, factory loads topped with jacketed hollow-point bullets in .357 Magnum, .44 magnum or .45 Colt will work just fine for home defense."

That is what I was thinking.Yes, the 45 LC is more expensive than others, but I can always gear up to reload them. I appreciate everyone's input here to my question and can see the issue from several sides.

VOOB:

"If you're worried about appearances using a lever action is walking right into the cowboy gambit. Have you considered a Mini-14 or M1 Carbine or similar? I don't care for either compared to an AR, but they offer the wood stock look and are semi-auto with detachable box magazines and will be easier to shoot. The Mini-14 is also a rifle caliber."

Yes I have thought about the M1 Carbine and as a matter of fact it was the first gun I considered, but the prices for a good one are ...well a little bit out of my range at this point in time. Same for the Mini-14 which I agree is a very nice rifle. I have never cared for the AR's. Never liked the looks of them and I remember they were getting guys killed in Vietnam (yeah, I know they have ironed out the problems with them to a good degree, but I still don't trust them) and well the AK's though they are as reliable as can be still have that "image" that the media stuck them with. I guess I am saying that I want something a little more effective than a pistol but which is still not a battle rifle. That is the reason that I mentioned the Ruger PC9 in my OP. They are hard to find now though and mags are not readily available for them either. Then I thought about that 9mm folding Kel-Tec, but I had a Kel-Tec 9mm pistol in the past and got rid of it soon after- very unimpressive workmanship, to put it nicely. Ah well ; the search continues.

I have a .45 like you describe and it would make a good defense gun. Yes there are better options but it will do the job. ( I prefer a 12 gauge and there is a pistol handy)

My best fried for years kept a Ruger .44 auto carbine (his normal dear hunting gun) close by and loaded if problems occurred. Its small, light, fast firing but only holds five shots and the Rossi holds more and with the right ammo would be a reasonable protector!

SKS rifles and carbines remain relatively inexpensive. Ammunition is cheaper and they are faster to load. Were I to get a lever action carbine, I would look for one in .30-30.

I have a Marlin 20" in 45 Colt. I have considered prepping it for HD, but for now it's unloaded in the safe.

It holds 9 rnds in the magazine, and with one in the chamber it gives you 10 shots.

I looked into HD ammo for it and decided to try Federal 225 gr Semi-wadcutter hollow point.

This is essentially a 45 Colt version of the old FBI load and is quite mild and probably would over penetrate less that the 45 Colt hunting rounds.

It's shown on the ballistics by the inch web site as one of the ones they tested.

I'm a revolver and lever action guy myself. I also have a 16" Marlin 30-30 which would do the job, but it only holds 5 shots in the magazine.