Here's Why I Don't Favor Everyone Carrying

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biku324

biku324

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I've said it before here and elsewhere, a gun is not a magic wand. Pointing one at someone who isn't deterred or who is drunk, high, enraged, or crazy means you need to be able to make an immediate decision. I don't believe many folks are.

Smith said police were initially pursuing the man because he was suspected of brandishing a shotgun through the sunroof of a Volkswagen Jetta he was driving Saturday. Authorities believe the suspect, identified as 21-year-old Mytrez Deunte Woolen of Marshall, Texas, broke into the church after police had left the area around 2 a.m. Sunday.

Pastor Mark Allen McWilliams, 62, drew a gun and ordered Woolen to stop, Smith said, but Woolen grabbed the weapon and began shooting with it. McWilliams was killed, a second person was injured by gunfire and another was hurt in a fall.

Pastor Killed, 2 Injured in Shooting at Texas Church | Time
 
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Unfortunately, the good pastor likely assumed merely presenting the weapon would allow him to control the situation. He compounded that mistake by being close enough to the assailant for him to initiate a struggle for the gun.

All the soul searching about killing needs to be done before introducing deadly force into the mix.
 
Freedom of speech. The free exercise of religion. The right to peaceably assemble. The right to keep and bear arms.

Freedom and rights aren't risk free. In 2020, free speech and the right to peaceably assemble may pose a bigger risk to people than the right to bear arms.
 
Very, very sad. You have to have the survival mindset to lethally use your firearm, it's not enough to just carry and possibly do some range work or even do some training. Unfortunately, that mindset is something that most of us won't discover that we have or don't have until we pull our gun from it's holster and point it at someone who is a grave threat.
 
If the issuance of concealed carry permits (or passing of constitutional carry laws) depended on every single armed citizen being perfect, then none would exist. We don't deny police the right to carry guns just because some police are unskilled or make incorrect use of force decisions. We don't ban the sale of cars even though some drivers will drive drunk or cause crashes.
 
He said he did not "favor" everyone carrying a gun. He did not say not everyone "deserves" to carry a gun.

Would it be a good idea for a confirmed pacifist, one who was determined, no matter what, to never employ violence for any reason, to carry a gun? (This being a very iconoclastic pacifist, you understand.:))

Actually, I think a greater danger to life and limb is folks using guns when they should not, but I understand his point.
 
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But yet many many more documented cases of people successfully defending themselves with a gun having never shot the gun prior. For generations the percentage of people that have successfully defended themselves with a gun far exceeds those that haven't. I agree that some people should not own guns. But to put limits on gun ownership is unAmerican.

Should they give up their guns too?

There are thousands of people that drive like idiots that should not have a license. They are much more dangerous. So what do you do?
 
It is not for me to judge, whether anyone else is fit to carry. We pays our money and takes our chances. While I may have more experience than the deceased, the outcome could have been similar for me. I'd still rather go out on my own terms, as he did.
 
Ziggy2525 said:
Freedom of speech. The free exercise of religion. The right to peaceably assemble. The right to keep and bear arms.

Freedom and rights aren't risk free. In 2020, free speech and the right to peaceably assemble may pose a bigger risk to people than the right to bear arms.
Click to expand...

Amen Brother, Amen!
 
Kanewpadle said:
But yet many many more documented cases of people successfully defending themselves with a gun having never shot the gun prior. For generations the percentage of people that have successfully defended themselves with a gun far exceeds those that haven't. I agree that some people should not own guns. But to put limits on gun ownership is unAmerican.

Should they give up their guns too?

There are thousands of people that drive like idiots that should not have a license. They are much more dangerous. So what do you do?
Click to expand...


Sorry, but you state too many large scale generalizations. Not looking for individual examples, but could/would you post any large scale analysis that states the above?
Thanks in advance.
 
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Carrying a gun does not mean that the individual is really qualified to do so. A four hour class and firing a couple of supervised rounds is not near enough training. I spent 24 years in the Corps and a couple of years of that was working security and anti-terrorism team. I was a combat shotgun and pistol/revolver instructor. I have shot bullseye for over 50 years and spent about 10 years shooting IPSC. I have a concealed weapons permit and I do carry at times (mainly on trips). If there is an area that I consider a trouble spot, then I stay out. Don't want to infringe on anyone's rights, but would like to see more training required to be allowed to carry. In peacetime I have only drawn a pistol once and that was to protect one of my troops. The other guy decided to drop his weapon and run. For the fact that I did not have to shoot, I am eternally grateful.
 
AJ said:
Carrying a gun does not mean that the individual is really qualified to do so. A four hour class and firing a couple of supervised rounds is not near enough training. I spent 24 years in the Corps and a couple of years of that was working security and anti-terrorism team. I was a combat shotgun and pistol/revolver instructor. I have shot bullseye for over 50 years and spent about 10 years shooting IPSC. I have a concealed weapons permit and I do carry at times (mainly on trips). If there is an area that I consider a trouble spot, then I stay out. Don't want to infringe on anyone's rights, but would like to see more training required to be allowed to carry. In peacetime I have only drawn a pistol once and that was to protect one of my troops. The other guy decided to drop his weapon and run. For the fact that I did not have to shoot, I am eternally grateful.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your service in the Corps. I respect your experience and training immensely. I'm sure that there are still things I could learn from you. However, I respectfully disagree completely with "would like to see more training required to be allowed to carry." It's the required part that I have a strong objection to. Would I prefer people to get more training, absolutely. But like a poll tax to vote, I believe government mandates (requirements) to exercise a Right under the Constitution in an infringement on that right (particularly to poor people, those with limited access, etc.). Therefore, i will never support "required" training regardless of how desirable more training might be.
 
There are always "trade-off's" in polarizing opinions. We do have a second Amendment, but then too so many gun owners who make tragic mistakes, like leaving a firearm where a child can pick it up, or who have a ND or AD because they are inexperienced in firearm handling. Or have a gun stolen, which then enters into illegal hands. Same for arming or allowing arming of school teachers, who may have their pistol taken and used, or forget it in the bathroom, and so forth. Years ago, my wife walked into a female bathroom at a restaurant, and a lady cop's firearm was hanging on the hook.

Perhaps a corollary would be having to show reasonable competence to have a driver's license, which is NOT a constitutional right.

Whichever way one supports regarding firearms people are going to one injured or killed.

I too have shot firearms for over a half century, and over a decade of IDPA and more. I am on my church's security team, and as much as I would try to make the correct instantaneous decision in a deadly force situation, I am pretty sure I would shoot if a "bad guy" was already shooting, but if they had not yet fired, would instinctively holler "drop it."

But one thing is sure, once constitutional rights are limited, it is a relentless avenue for loss of everything.

these are difficult times, All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
 
The pastor was in a tough spot. If he had just blasted Mytrez in place he would be now at the mercy of a mob howling for his blood for killing an unarmed man. That's better than being dead, but he had no way of knowing what was coming. For every one of these endings, there are many more where the bad guy submits (which Mytrez did initially in this case) and waits for the cops. You just don't hear about them.

I don't know enough details to venture an opinion as to how the victim could have handled it better.
 
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Ohio has permit for CCW. Most of the people that run out and got them I wouldn't trust with a bowling ball. Forget them shooting at all. I shudder to think of what they could cause by drawing a gun during robbery or any situation they think gun is called for. I don't give a hoot about idiots but they can cause innocent people to be hurt. Most of them wouldn't say jack at any time, gun makes them Clint Eastwood. I'm firm believer in only time gun is to be pulled is to shoot, not talk. You are in fear for your life or not.
 
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