PCC for Home Defense?

Newbie question here. I'm thinking about a Ruger PCC. This Brownell's episode of Smythbusters:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvK3VUDX4y4[/ame]

contradicted itself. They both recommended PCCs for home defense, but then said that the higher velocities of 9mm would reduce reliable expansion of hollow points and something about the powder burn rate being designed for shorter barrels. I didn't understand the latter.

Given yesterday's successful defense at a Norco (Southern) California liquor store by an 80 year-old clerk vs. four robbers, I'm leaning more toward a shotgun for my home defense.

Thoughts?

I prefer a Shotgun Caliber Firearm.



Or a Shotgun Caliber Handgun...

I’d stay away from shotgun pistols and shotguns without a butt stock.

They’re very hard to shoot well and, in the case of 410 pistols, ineffective beyond about 6 feet (unless you’re shooting a snake at your feet).

The powder has a fast burn rate so that you get a complete burn before the bullet leaves the barrel on a short barreled pistol. With a longer barrel the powder is finished before the bullet leaves the barrel so there's actually a point to where the bullets speed will actually be impeded by drag. At least that's my understanding. Self-defense is more of an art than a science, so everyone has an opinion that they think is correct. Myself included. I have never been a fan of long guns for home defense. If you're going to call 911 then sit in your bedroom while you wait for the police that's fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm personally not comfortable clearing a room while carrying a long gun because it just seems to me that it would be too easy for someone to wrestle you for it. If you've had training you likely feel differently about it. And again, it's also possible that I'm completely wrong which I'm sure others will gladly point out to me.

Thanks. My concern is that I'm not always in my safe room and that it might not be feasible to access it, depending upon where I am in my house and where the burglar(s) presents. In particular, my basement door is between my home office and safe room.

Mine is a Beretta CX-4 in 9mm paired with Beretta 92 Centurion. 16" barrel w/ an overall length of 29"... 15-30rd factory or Mec-gar mags..... 1300-1700 fps and 400-600 ft.lbs of muzzle energy.

NO one likes to get shot with even a .22lr...... so a double or triple tap of 9mm is IMHO GG

Some studies say .223 is less likely to overpenetrate w/in a home..... but consider muzzle blast out of a short barreled AR

Personally I am not a fan of long guns for home defense for most people. They are very easy to take away from you unless you have extensive training and almost everybody tends to lead with the muzzle while going around corners. If you are in a position where you can "fort up" aim at the door and wait for the cops it might be a good idea. Otherwise I would tend to go with a hand gun. In addition with most calibers your overpenetration potential with a long gun goes up. (My opinion, for what that might be worth to you.)

I don't think you'll have an issue with whatever you choose. If I had my druthers I'd just have an AR secured nearby, but I'd absolutely prefer anything with a stock (including a PCC or shotgun) to a handgun. I had a Ruger PCC when it was new and didn't much care for it. The recoil impulse as a blowback design didn't over any benefit over. 223 in an AR, you accept certain ballistic drawbacks, and at the time there wasn't really any price savings vs. getting an AR. Some of that is still a thing to consider, but the PCC will offer you cheaper practice ammo, and if you like a gun, you like it, and that's what matters.

"Unreliable expansion at faster velocities" - Uh, that's mostly BS unless "unreliable expansion" is defined. You could definitely push the bullet to the point that it opens and then fragments inside the target, but that would need to be tested and probable has by someone on YouTube. But saying that the bullet wouldn't expand because it's going too fast doesn't make any logical sense.

"Burn rate for shorter barrels" - yep, absolutely true. Again, this is something that would need to be tested. I think, but don't know for sure, that a 9mm fired in a 16-inch barrel probably is being dragged a bit because the powder finished burning before the bullet exited the barrel.

While I'd prefer a shotgun for my home defense weapon I'd have no problem with the PCC. Having a 9mm long gun and a 9mm handgun just may be what a lot of people need. 9mm is readily available and SD ammo is easy to find and inexpensive. I'd think some Gold Dot 124+P or HST 124+P would make that PCC one formidable firearm.

I believe that instead of "unreliable expansion" what they should have said was "unreliable penetration". Above the velocities they were designed for bullets tend to expand much faster and that reduces penetration. I think that if I felt I needed a rifle and a pistol for home defense I would rather just move. But again, it's an art and everyone has their own ideas. I just want to add here that if you do choose the PCC, make sure it is reliable. I had a LOT of stovepipe issues with mine. After trying a lot of remedies I finally (I hope) got it working right. If you do a search using PCC and stovepipes you will find a lot of others who had the same issue. Most seem to have been able to correct their issue after a while.

Rpg said:

I’d stay away from shotgun pistols and shotguns without a butt stock.

They’re very hard to shoot well and, in the case of 410 pistols, ineffective beyond about 6 feet (unless you’re shooting a snake at your feet).

Click to expand...

My Judge isn't hard to shoot at all and has been accurate out to 20 yards with 000 Buckshot.

Have you ever actually shot a .410 Revolver before or are you just repeating what you've heard?

Well, everybody has an opinion on this topic. A agree that you do not want a long barreled long gun. For me, my home protection package is a 12GA model 97 riot gun and a Glock 36 45acp. I know this is the S&W forum, but the Glock is the most reliable semi auto I own. It eats everything with complete reliability, and what is not to like about the time proven 45 acp? BTW, my load is standard hardball, and my shotgun is a load of #2 shot

I’m with border boss. Barrel drag is a thing. However every chrono test I’ve ever seen verified that like loads are faster from a 16” barrel than a 4-5” barrel. Maybe all the talking heads on tv and on the inner web are priming us for a new 9mm load designed for rifle length barrels. I put nothing past the marketer’s

I don't think anyone on here has said that bullets will exit the 16" barrel slower than they will from a 5" barrel. All the chrono tests I've seen show about a 200 foot per second increase (mol). Talking heads and marketers aside, you can't fight the laws of physics.

My only “PCC” is this one, though I suspect some pedant will insist it is actually an “RCC”.

I doubt I’ll ever be called upon to defend the homestead, but if so this should do the job.

Op, your PCC is just fine.

Have a plan. No where your fields of fire are, meaning “do I have a reliable back stop at the other end of the room? “

It’s not rocket science. Just some common sense.

Watch the video. Listen carefully. If done right the length of a long gun in the home is not an issue.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_APnhoIYeD0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_APnhoIYeD0[/ame]

Just as long as it's reliable. For me that's the critical point on using the PCC for home defense. As it came from the factory I got at least one stovepipe for every 10 rounds or so. They hung up in a way that required dropping the mag to clear. Take it out and put a few hundred rounds through it just to make sure. A 90% reliable rifle is NOT a reliable rifle. I think mine is working okay finally. Last time out I fired 200 rounds without a jam so (fingers crossed) I'm hoping it's good to go now.

1sailor, which brand/model of PCC do you have that stovepipes every 10 rounds?

The PCC is a niche gun. Many guns are niche guns, meaning they have a specific use that they excel. Any gun can be pressed for home defense say...a 1903 Springfield. It's a good platform, most will agree though that an old 03's niche is not home defense.

The basic shotgun's niche is upland and wing shooting, but another niche of the shotgun is its ambiguity and ability to do almost anything. It may not excel but it's very capable at many, many things. In other words, a shotgun is jack of all trades and does many well.

A 22 rifle's niche is small game and target shooting. Can it be pressed for big game? Sure, but it's not ideal. Can it be pressed for home defense, Sure but...?
A 22 is touted as one of the best all-around but really it has too much range, the round has too much penetration (in the home) and is too ineffective. A 22 rifle can be a jack of all trades but unlike a shot gun it does few well.

What's the niche of the black and the orange rifles (ARs and AKs) with their intermediate cartridges? They are not a great big game hunting rifle like a full-size service rifle. Are they really that good for home defense? What about penetration? What about range?
The black and the orange excel at medium game or varmints where decent range is needed. They excel at multiple targets like herds of hogs or groups of coyotes or feral dogs. These guns excel for target and sport shooting. Lastly though, their real niche is opposing others with black or orange rifles at real battle ranges.

What's the niche of a pistol caliber carbine?
In my opinion the following are the best uses for the PCC.
1. Property defense/livestock defense. It has the range but not too much range, the accuracy if properly sighted and the knock down power to put stuff down.
After killing a couple of your goats or calves, maybe killing or maiming your own dog in your fence, Fluffy and Speedy may make it home full of .22LRs or shot. You don't want Fluffy and Speedy to make it home.
I'm not an advocate of this unless it's the last resort. Something that comes on to your property and kills your animals and pets maybe even on your porch is a dangerous threat. Use restraint and judgement. A phone call to Fluffy and Speedys owners may be the best course. Then again, any animal bold enough to kill your cat or your dog in front of your front door may do the same to your toddler child or grandchild. This is why the gun needs to be quicky assessable, to stop the act.
A shotgun with slugs, a full-size service rifle and even an intermediate black/orange rifle may be too much for this type of duty.
This is the traditional role of a PCC. Think Winchester 1866/1873/1892 in those old pistol calibers...44 Henry Flat, 25-20, 32-20, 44-40...All are great property defense rounds out of a carbine.

2. As a quick sub-gun for home defense. With the detachable magazine (high-capacity Glock) the Ruger PCC can be loaded quickly and has much more controllable fire power than a pistol of the same caliber. (Yeah, I know this is debatable) ... It does not have excessive penetration like a service or intermediate rifle. It's quicker to load and get into battery than a completely unloaded pump or auto shot gun.
The thing is...
It has to be accessible for quick load and quick use.