Mountain Lions are just big cats, ergo they are lean, thin-skinned, thin-furred, and with light slim bones. As such they lack the thick fat, thick fur, and dense bones that render bears less susceptible to small arms.

In other words, 9mm Parabellum is plenty adequate for Mountain Lion, no need for any specialty loads either, whatever you carry for two-legged predators will suffice.

That being said, I would consider the possibility that you may encounter something tougher in the wilderness, and follow the conventional wisdom that is; "Carry the most powerful firearm you own into the woods, just in case." So yeah, if you have something with a bit more oomph than 9mm, then I would sooner recommend that, but if 9mm is what you've got, then it will certainly protect you from Mountain Lions, no problem.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Let's see - lion grabbed by Game & Fish in a neighborhood (we have them occasionally in Ruidoso neighborhoods as well- people feed the town deer, and cats eat deer), one scared up a tree by a lady who had offered it water, and one report of an aggressive lion with no further contact and no additional information.

The last article doesn't even have the right state - White Mountain Apache Reservation is in Arizona, as is the Salt River. Perhaps a large grain of salt should be considered on their accuracy.

Not seeing so much on the 'people attacked by mountain lion' front.

Ugh, I cannot comprehend this bizarre assertion put forth by certain individuals that wild animals are not only 100% predictable, but also never attack human beings, and therefore one need not carry a firearm for protection against animals in the woods.

I honestly have to question the motive behind such assertions because it strikes me as highly suspicious that one would ever discourage others from exercising their Second Amendment rights for self-defense, regardless of the likelihood that such a weapon be needed.

I suppose we should all drive without spare tires while we're at it because what are the odds that a tire will blow out and can we really trust the testimony of those who claim to have experienced such a blow out?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Now hold on; if someone wants to carry in the woods or anywhere else, that's their business. But all day every day, loose roaming dogs and unpredictable humans are far more likely to harm a person by any count than are mountain lions, for heaven's sake. We're talking serious dog bites/attacks, human assaults (regular or sexual), robberies, even the occasional homicide. Venomous snakes are problematic in many places as well. If you want to carry, do so, but don't just make up your reasons.

I routinely carry hiking or horseback - on horseback because I might have to humanely put down a severely crippled horse (I have) or get off a horse and take action to keep house dogs from attacking the animal or you. As well, while hiking, I don't like skunks, as they regularly carry rabies and other diseases, so I kill every one I can.

But I don't have to pretend lions and bears are a real threat. Not here. Not many places unless there are extreme, rare circumstances. Just man up and carry.

Not always.



What's the Difference Between a Mountain Lion and a Cougar ...
A cougar and a mountain lion are essentially the same animal. They're simply called different names in different parts of the world.

Cougars are very dangerous especially in groups in bars. But fortunately I am way past age and shape they are interested in.

The previous video is pretty darn scary, as the videographer admits. Personally, in the absence of a gun, I would have first thrown the phone in its general direction and then loaded up on those fist-sized rocks and start launching them rapid fire. Easy for me to say since I wasn't there

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

Then fix your credit!

Properly, a group of 3 or more cougars hunting together in a bar is a pack.

I must have missed the attack.

I agree with those who say 9mm is sufficient for mountain lion. That said, I like .357 Sig (hard cast flat tip) for that purpose. Glock 32. ** EDIT - There are heavy hard cast 9mm rounds too.

I have seen more than 100 (maybe 200) NC black bears while hiking. The small bears from western NC and BIG chunky bears from the eastern swamps. Spent a lot of time hiking in Florida panther territory too. The Picayune and Fakahatchee Strand Everglades. Have seen two panthers on foot and another from the car. Hope to go back again early next year.

Never had a problem with any of them. Everybody minds their own business, runs away, etc. I still go appropriately armed. A 5" 629 with hard cast .44 Magnum or, more recently, a Glock 40 (10 mm) with hard cast flat nose. No grizzlies in NC.

Here in Calif. and Nevada, 95% of attacks are by starving , sick or wounded animals that can no longer feed themselves.
It could be a female trying to protect a kit near by, that is not noticed.

It is very rare to be attacked and tried to be carried off, by an animal.

If these lions are caught, they will usually show poor health or other reasons for their abnormal behavior.

As mentioned, if loud noises , a group of people or a gun shot will not scare the animal off
it usually means something is very wrong with the animal.

Cougars aren't all that big. Nor is there hide tough or thick. 9mm would be towards the bottom of what I would choose. I have carried 9mm and .357 in cat country. Usually carry at leastways a 40 cal. I would carry a .38 with a heavy hard cast if needed to.

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balin
NRA Life Member

70 years in lion country. I've never seen one. Glock 19 is my EDC. I think it adequate for cats. Felt under gunned when I encountered a moose with twin calves while fishing.

A boy scout in Colorado killed a lion with a pocket knife.

Thank you.

There was a recent thread posted where a jogger came across a Cougar. Lion whatever you call them. He videoed it on his phone, The cat followed him and charged a few times. Not something I would like to encounter!
I would think a well placed shot with a 9mm would have deterred it! But I do not know.


Here is the video


Cougar stalk: Utah jogger on six-minute encounter with a mountain lion - BBC News

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Still Running Against the Wind

"SJ Brooks, 32, was killed on Saturday morning during a bike ride with pal Isaac Sederbaum, 31, on a remote trail near North Bend, outside of Seattle, Washington.

SJ Brooks has been identified as the biker mauled to death by a cougar in Seattle on Saturday

Sederbaum, who has serious but non-life threatening wounds, survived the attack despite his head being trapped inside the hungry big cat’s jaws at one point.

When the pair were first confronted by the cougar, they got off their bikes and managed to scare the animal away - by making noise and even hitting it with their bicycle wheels."
First picture of cyclist mauled to death by cougar who dragged him to den after clamping its jaws around his friend’s head | The Sun


"A Gresham woman killed in a suspected cougar attack near Mount Hood suffered a broken neck and had more than a dozen puncture wounds to the nape of her neck, records released this week show.

Those injuries — as well as wounds on Diana Bober's hands — "appeared to be consistent with an animal attack," medical staff performing the autopsy office determined, according to a state police report."
Oregon hiker killed in Mount Hood cougar attack suffered broken neck, puncture wounds - oregonlive.com

The article barely touches on the womans injured hands. The fact is her hands were in very bad shape, she had fought the cat for a while, it was not a quick kill.

If only she had known to clap... Same for the two guys using their bikes as weapons and shields.

Then 2018 was a really bad year in Oregon, when the first ever cougar death was reported. Ever.

"State authorities have called her death the first confirmed fatal wild cougar attack in Oregon."

I guess we'll let her family know her death was just a fluke and therefore doesn't really matter.

What sort of clap do you recommend, I mean, before the cat chews your hands to a pulp?

If 9 mm isn't enough gun, who's going to learn the details?

Personally, I carry a .357M HP east of the Mississippi, and .44M hard cast west.

After my first close encounter (< 50') with a big cat, my wife told me to buy that .44 Mag I had been lusting after. She was with me that time.

Had I known then what I know now I'd have bought a .45 ACP 1911.

Fine by me.

I'd recommend not freaking out over one-in-history-of-a-state incident. Five years ago.

Who's freaking out?
This is about calling you, someone that professes to know better, out for giving dangerous advice that could contribute to a bad ending from a cougar encounter.

You said that "clap your hands and it will simply disappear into the nearest cover. "

The last article stated that a group of rafters were fighting it off with paddles. But those people weren't attacked, right?

I guess not.

You implied that mountain lions are timid, my point is that they have been in the metro area and seem to be unafraid. But whatever.

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Thread Killer.

Believe what you want. Carry what you want. Or just practice your applause skills. It's you not me after all. But I can tell you that that was not the only cougar attack in the state. Just the only fatal one. Not every attack results in death, or even injury, but they are attacks nonetheless.
As a kid in the late '70s I personally touched and examined the body of a cougar that had attacked a rancher who was working on his fences. He hadn't heard anything, just tuned and the cat was there. He yelled and drew his gun, waved his arms, and the cat came at him. One round from his 1911 and the cat was dead. My father, a wildlife biologist who worked for the state, investigated the killing of the cat. Evidence from tracks showed the cat had stalked him. It wasn't a surprise encounter, it was a hunt. The cat was a big one, nearly 180 pounds and healthy.
Mountain lion attacks, though rare, do happen. Flat tires rarely happen, but I carry a spare at all times. Plan for the best case scenario and things might go badly for you. Plan for the worst case, if nothing happens, all good.

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The best I can with what I got

...don't plan on pulling the trigger only once.

PS I was watching Autumn's Armory and she said, "9mms might not expand, but .45s never 'shrink'. I thought that was pretty good, even if I don't carry a 1911 like she has.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Okay, folks....let's just hold on here a minute. There are a bunch of differing opinions being put out on this post. And, last I checked, that's okay. I mean, that's one of the great things about this forum. We can share differing opinions without questioning the veracity of other posters.

In my case, old habits die hard. I've been packing a .45 Colt for over forty years. Even if I didn't live in mountain lion or black bear country, I'd probably still pack my old Ruger Blackhawk whenever I went into the back country. Like I said, old habits die hard...I feel comfortable with it and, at my age, I don't see myself changing anytime soon.

Likewise, if others don't feel like carrying, that's okay. That's strictly their choice and as long as they don't get after me for carrying my .45 Colt, I'm certainly not going to get after them for choosing not to carry.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

I read an opinion about one 12 ga 00 buckshot load being equal to a high capacity 9mm.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

More like a single-stack (8 or nine balls).
And you don't get to adjust your aim after the trigger pull!

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Because of the metric system?

Jaguar IS the largest cat in the Americas !
Regards, Ray

I ran across this yesterday, FWIW. A 9mm for woods walks.

G9 Defense Woodsman 124gr 9mm +P - ULTIMATE PENETRATION!! - YouTube

Agree. I always carry, and when in the sticks I carry heavier than I often do at home. Mt. lion/Cougar is one of the more “minimal” dancers you may encounter. I’m a lot more worried about 2 legged goblins than cats or bears. A .357 or .44 is my preference but carry what YOU can shoot. A hit from a .22 will beat a miss from a .500🙄

Correction: This thread is about whether or not a 9mm pistol would be adequate for protection against a possible mountain lion attack. Several people have offered the benefits of their experiences and opinions.

Only one person has decided that this is about calling someone out. Only one person has tried to turn this into a confrontation rather than a discussion.

That one person might benefit from understanding what a forum like this is really all about, a sharing of knowledge, experience, and ideas, rather than a pontifical declaration of right and wrong.

Over and out.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

We all know the thread is about 9mm lethality.
My objection is someone giving very bad advice ("clap your hands and it will simply disappear into the nearest cover") about how to handle yourself in a cougar encounter could get someone hurt or worse.

Alright then, you can keep right on clapping and write off any attacks by domestic predatory down felines as a one-off occurrence.

As for the rest of us, we'll continue to carry guns and the "clap" will be when the firing pin strikes the primer.

Fair enough?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Ahem. From my post #54 above:

Now hold on; if someone wants to carry in the woods or anywhere else, that's their business. But all day every day, loose roaming dogs and unpredictable humans are far more likely to harm a person by any count than are mountain lions, for heaven's sake. We're talking serious dog bites/attacks, human assaults (regular or sexual), robberies, even the occasional homicide. Venomous snakes are problematic in many places as well. If you want to carry, do so, but don't just make up your reasons.

I routinely carry hiking or horseback - on horseback because I might have to humanely put down a severely crippled horse (I have) or get off a horse and take action to keep house dogs from attacking the animal or you. As well, while hiking, I don't like skunks, as they regularly carry rabies and other diseases, so I kill every one I can.

But I don't have to pretend lions and bears are a real threat. Not here. Not many places unless there are extreme, rare circumstances. Just man up and carry.

Some of the very best conversations and discussions online happen when one reads threads from beginning to end and follows the rule, 'top to bottom, left to right.'

I started going to BIG BEND NATL PARK 62 years ago. During the 1980s-90s I went almost every year. The Park has routinely had the largest mountain Lion population in TEXAS. My group normally camps out at the bottom of the Bend right on the RIO GRANDE. We all carry handguns and rifles as there have been many shoot outs with Mexican cowboys and bandits. Most tourists in Bermuda shorts and knee socks stay in lodges and campers up in the Basin in the Chisos Mountains where there is a restaurant and running water. There are Big cat sighting almost every week in THE BASIN. During one 3 year period in the 90s while I was there , 3 different 8-10 year old boys were killed by mountain lions walking to the south overlook where you can see 50 miles down into the desert ,the Rio Grande river and into Mexico. The parents who were unarmed just stood there and screamed .

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V/r,
Markham

I don't know first hand about lions in the wild, but I do know something about them in general having lived with one for 11 years at one time. It's not likely you are going to sneak up on a mt lion, so most of the time they are going to run off when they see you. However if the lion is actually stalking you it will probably be on you before you have time to draw, so what caliber weapon you have won't matter if you don't get a shot off.

In the rare instance when a healthy mt lion is hunting you as food my money is on the lion every time regardless of how you are armed. You won't see him till he's on you. They can sneak up on deer close enough to pounce on them. Humans are surely easier to sneak up on than deer.

But yeah, assuming you can get a shot or shots off I'd think a 9mm would be adequate given any kind of decent shot placement.

Shooting bears over bait or cats treed by dogs is NOT hunting. Spot and stalk is the only ethical hunting IMOHO.

As far as defense against four legged furries, I'd want it to be substantial, aka 44Mag. Encounters are rare. Who's to say that you could successfully defend against a cat, only to come up against a bear around the next corner...

I’m firmly in the camp of carrying when in the boonies. Nearly 5 decades ago a friend and I, unarmed, went scouting for a place to hunt deer. We drove the old Scout in as far as we could, then proceeded to hike in another mile and a quarter. We were, literally, miles from anywhere. Suddenly we encountered a pack of no less than 8 large feral dogs, who proceeded to circle us, growling, snapping, and making short “rushes” in toward us. We hollered, threw rocks and did all we could think of but the dogs continued their act. I wasn’t scared of being killed ( though I probably should have been) but I was very scared of being bitten and getting to enjoy a series of Rabies shots. Long story short my buddy and I retreated up a tree, where the dogs continued their act for well over a half hour before wandering off. We made our way down and made a very cautious retreat to the Scout. We came back the following day and managed to put down six of them with an M1 carbine and an old Winchester. From then until now I have never been in the sticks without a weapon. In the years since I’ve encountered a few rabid critters that I’ve put down and a few two legged goblins that I didn’t but I was darn glad I was armed when I came across them. .When you are in the boonies you are at the mercy of whatever, or whoever, you encounter. A wise man will follow the old Boy Scout rule and “Be Prepared’. Better safe than sorry. About 10 years ago a very good friend who was an avid hiker but was not a gun guy was on the Appalachian trail down south. He and the wife stopped for a break and suddenly two Very sketchy types showed up and began harassing them, demanding food, etc. Right when things were getting really intense three men came down the trail, and walked toward them. The first guy pushed open his vest to clearly show a holstered pistol and said “ what’s going on here”. The bad actors began mumbling and cursing and the new guy (standing with his buddies) said “ I think you boys better leave”. Well, they did cussing and complaining, but they did leave. My friend and his wife walked with their three new friends for the rest of that days hike. Monday morning at work my friend was telling me the story. Later that week he bought his first pistol (Combat Commander) and began putting in the time and training to learn how to use it. They still hike in remote areas and still love it, But that old Colt is a constant companion. In addition, a few years ago his wife began carrying a little Ruger LCP. They are convinced that the timely arrival of the cavalry saved their lives.

Absolutely.
Though my first cougar encounter my wife, dogs and I saw it and the cat saw us all at the same time. Distance was about two car lengths away.

I think a 9mm would be perfectly fine. I usually carried a 10mm Glock 29 only because I was in grizzly country too. Spent a lot of time in the field in NW Montana hiking and hunting, had a couple encounters with mountain lions.

Helped a friend build on off grid cabin on his 500 acres when we lived in NW Montana, in exchange he gave me hunting rights, and his property was surrounded by both state land and Lolo national forest. It was an awesome archery elk hunting spot.

During hunting season I’d drive to the forest service gate, he had an easement and gave me a key to the locked gate, and I would unlock the gate, drive through, and then get out and lock it before driving on to access his property.

Once after a day of hunting, it was pitch dark when I left, and when I drove to the gate, got out and unlocked it then drove through, stopped and relocked the gate, got back inside my rig, an extremely large mountain lion walked by directly in front of my rig! It had been watching me the whole time I was outside unlocking and locking the gate, probably 10 yards away, well concealed in the brush!

For awhile every time I left at night, I had my hand on that Glock and scanned the area with my flashlight while leaving! I have encountered 3 mountain lions in my lifetime but no doubt I have been watched more than once by mountain lions while out hunting, fishing and hiking.

They are a beautiful, stealthy and incredibly powerful animal, able to take down a bull elk. Thankfully, they are generally shy and reclusive of humans. While similar in size, they don’t have the temperament of a leopard, could you imagine the body count they would rack here up if they did?

Trail cam photo of 3 mountain lions behind our place in NW Montana before we moved to Oklahoma. Most likely a female and her 2 near adult juveniles.

I've read all 91 posts and here are my conclusions.

A 9 mm is adequate but bigger might be better out in the wild.
Be aware of your surroundings.
Where does a 110 lb cat sleep? Apparently right next to a Forum member, on the sofa.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220