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05-05-2024, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1918a2
I'm not sure. Does April Fools run into May??
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Actually, that IS EXACTLY what I was wondering.....but I did my best to be the sweet, kind gentleman my benighted, sainted momma raised....or tried to...........
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05-05-2024, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasound
Anyway... how many of you have fired a 12ga Shockwave with 2 3/4" 9-ball 00 buck? I have. Not fun. Not even close. I'll stick with my 38's and 9mm's. Now a .410 Shockwave, maybe...
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Back in my younger days I cut the barrels and stock on a double barrel 12 ga. magnum. Barrels and overall was legal. I loaded both barrels with 3 in. shells and shot it one time with one hand. The breech lever cut the web of my hand and the back of the trigger guard took some meat off my middle finger and my fingers wouldn't move. I used my good hand to pull the gun from my shooting hand and remove the unfired shell. I learned in one lesson to not do that again. Larry
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05-05-2024, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo40
The best Caliber is .729 and the best Cartridge is none other than the mighty 12 Gauge Slug Shell.
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I know a Deputy who killed his partner with a 12 gauge miss. So at least two fatal cop shootings by their partners with 12 gauge shotguns.
Shotguns are not an answer for everyone JMHO
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05-07-2024, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handloader109
Nah, 12gauge is just, not the right weapon. Not even most of the time. FN PS90. 50 rounds of 5.7x28. I'd much rather scatter 50 pieces of 40grain lead at up to 50 targets. Bullpen length. Better sights with a red dot so you can get them running away. And I'll bet I can still have a modicum of hearing left if I were to fire off a few rounds inside vs one shotgun blast. Yep. 50 rounds. 22 caliber
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
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Same amount of ammo and same caliber, but a tad smaller.
P50 | 5.7mm Semi-Automatic Pistol | 50 Round Capacity | KelTec
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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.
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05-07-2024, 10:21 AM
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If you want to tote one, about as effective as anything without wheels within 10 yards or so. Wouldn’t want to use it at 40 yards across the mall food court.
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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
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05-07-2024, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handloader109
Nah, 12gauge is just, not the right weapon. Not even most of the time. FN PS90. 50 rounds of 5.7x28. I'd much rather scatter 50 pieces of 40grain lead at up to 50 targets. Bullpen length. Better sights with a red dot so you can get them running away. And I'll bet I can still have a modicum of hearing left if I were to fire off a few rounds inside vs one shotgun blast. Yep. 50 rounds. 22 caliber
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
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Counter-point: Each 12 Gauge #4 Buckshot 3" Shell holds 41 .24cal pellets.
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05-07-2024, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog
If you want to tote one, about as effective as anything without wheels within 10 yards or so. Wouldn’t want to use it at 40 yards across the mall food court.
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Don't want to tote one around. Was taught to take out the bad guy from behind the hostage at 10 yards with 00 Buck, without hitting the hostage. For longer ranges we used slug out to 100 yards.
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05-07-2024, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ
Don't want to tote one around. Was taught to take out the bad guy from behind the hostage at 10 yards with 00 Buck, without hitting the hostage. For longer ranges we used slug out to 100 yards.
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You seen the video of the San Diego PD officer taking out a murderer holding his ex-GF around her neck?
Shotguns are awesome especially for the few who really get it.
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05-07-2024, 09:59 PM
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My issued .38 saved me more than once during my career & based on that it’s what I carry in retirement.
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05-07-2024, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT ROCK 11B
You seen the video of the San Diego PD officer taking out a murderer holding his ex-GF around her neck?
Shotguns are awesome especially for the few who really get it.
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Have not seen it, but have done it over 100 times using steel pepper poppers. Won some money on the shot, while teaching that it can be done.
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05-08-2024, 02:03 PM
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M110A2 Self Propelled Howitzer. You can take out the entire food court from 18 Mi away
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Last edited by Smoke; 05-08-2024 at 02:04 PM.
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05-08-2024, 06:52 PM
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I just watched the conclusion of the documentary film "Spectre" in which James Bond shot down a helicopter from a fast moving speedboat at a range of roughly 1/4 mile with a shot from his Walther PPK which is known to be chambered 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) "which hits like a brick through a plate glass window."
So for self defense, 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) for me, all day, every day.
Last edited by Oldsalt66; 05-08-2024 at 08:05 PM.
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05-08-2024, 09:27 PM
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One big issue with the OP's claims. Those ballistics were probably developed for a 28 inch barrel. So it's loaded with a slower burning powder such as Longshot and actually needs a longer barrel to get up to speed. Put that in a barrel that is roughly 14 inches shorter and you can say good by to that 1200 fps quoted velocity. My hunch is that you would end up in the 700-800 fps range. I will also note that a newbie to the Shockwave will probably drop the gun when they fire it. Recoil at this level in a hand held "pistol" is something you have to work up to slowly.
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05-08-2024, 09:43 PM
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Not so, I'm afraid. 12 Gauge Shotshells are extremely low pressure, and due to how they function in the first place with shot, barrel length makes surprisingly little difference on velocity compared to other firearms.
Shotgun Barrel Length vs. Velocity - The Kommando Blog
This was the best article I could find on the subject, but I once read a better one with more 1:1 results because what they did was use the same shotgun but kept cutting the barrel shorter and shorter.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find that particular article, but I'm not surprised because it was over a decade old.
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05-09-2024, 09:18 AM
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Whew! Glad thats settled......
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Even older, even crankier....
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05-09-2024, 10:11 AM
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not sure of the caliber or if Smith makes a revolver for this, but it gets my vote.
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05-09-2024, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldiegoldie
not sure of the caliber or if Smith makes a revolver for this, but it gets my vote.
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16” AP round from a battleship?
The M3 Grant in the background would work also.
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Alan
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05-27-2024, 06:08 PM
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Since this is a silly threat anyway.....105 howitzer with beehive rounds.
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05-27-2024, 07:17 PM
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It works for me. But I'm 8'5" and I can IWB a Shockwave with no problem.
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05-28-2024, 05:42 PM
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Sgt Rock, I've seen that video and it is awesome. I wonder if it's still out there. That officer did a great job.
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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!
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05-28-2024, 07:02 PM
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Nice weather we're having.
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05-28-2024, 09:12 PM
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is it too late to ask about the bear?
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06-01-2024, 01:54 PM
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If carrying one 12 ga. is good, carrying two of them (one for each hand) should be even better! Wearing a long duster, like the old cowboys, would allow for reasonable concealment of the two shotguns with shortened barrels slung on your hips, ready to go at a moments notice. Of course you must wear dark sunglasses at all times when carrying this, even at night. Admittedly, wearing a duster year round, regardless of the weather, and with dark sunglasses at night, it might be a bit hard to be "the gray man". Until then, I will still feel okay leaving my house with my 642 in a Desantis pocket holster, or if I really feel bad vibes, my Glock 26 and an extra mag.
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06-01-2024, 03:22 PM
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Nothing ever gets put to rest around here.  
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Sure you did
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06-01-2024, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
Nothing ever gets put to rest around here. |
Good post. You have great practical insight that most others lack.
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06-01-2024, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo40
For generations folks have argued over what's the best Caliber/Cartridge for Self-Defense? The argument is generally a worthless waste of time with most people just arguing in favor of their preferred cartridge with little or no objective facts to backup their claims, meanwhile there was always one objectively ideal cartridge for Self-Defense, but few folks are bold enough to come right out and say it because they know they'll get bombarded with baseless arguments against their claim.
Fortunately, I'm bold enough to say it once and for all, right here, right now...
The best Caliber is .729 and the best Cartridge is none other than the mighty 12 Gauge Slug Shell.
That really ought to be a mic drop right there, but obviously folks will attempt to argue against the fact, so I'll keep going to explain why it's the best.
Obviously a 12 Gauge Slug packs a heck of a punch, delivering over 3000 Foot Pounds of Kinetic Energy at the muzzle and still maintaining over 1200ft-lbs at a distance of 100 Yards.
In other words, a Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slug delivers as much energy at the Muzzle as a .500 S&W Magnum — The Most Powerful Handgun in the World — at the muzzle, and as much energy at a distance of 100 Yards as a .44 Remington Magnum — The Former Most Powerful Handgun in the World — not to mention the 5.56x45 NATO — The standard issue rifle cartridge in NATO Armed Forces — at the muzzle, and it does it all with a 602 Grain, .729 Caliber Projectile.
Some would argue that it's too powerful, too punishing, and delivered from a Firearm too large/heavy to carry concealed.
NONSENSE, I SAY! Nothing more that anti-gun rhetoric designed to pacify the masses and encourage citizens to carry less-than-adequate tools for Self-Defense.
In the modern-era, 12 Gauge Firearms are available in compact, concealable packages such as the Serbu Super Shorty and the Mossberg 590 Shockwave.
Furthermore, there exists a plethora of lower-powered yet still extremely effective 12 Gauge Slug Shells on the market, ranging from Federal Mini Shells for those of smaller stature all the way up to the aforementioned Bear-Slaying Brenneke Black Magic Magnum.
When you strap this on when you head out and you don't have to question whether or not you're adequately prepared to defend yourself.
Also, it's time to say it, people... Carrying a firearm isn't enough! If everyone maintained a rigorous daily exercise routine then nobody would argue that it's "unrealistic" or "impractical" to EDC a 12 Gauge.
Furthermore, if folks had some actual confidence and weren't overly concerned about what others think of them, then they wouldn't have to hide a Pocket Pistol in their pants when they go out to the store.
Folks need to start taking their Self-Defense seriously! You can't just carry whatever happens to be convenient, you've got to carry what gets the job done, and for all the endless arguments over which suboptimal handgun cartridge is the best of the worst option for minimalist Self-Defense, nobody has ever disputed that a hit from a 12 Gauge Slug is a fight-stopper! |
If you walk around in public wearing something like that in plain sight you are going to get to spend a lot of time talking to law-enforcement officers and store managers.
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06-01-2024, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter
If you walk around in public wearing something like that in plain sight you are going to get to spend a lot of time talking to law-enforcement officers and store managers.
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Yes, the ultmate "squirrel" gun.
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06-02-2024, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Vito
If carrying one 12 ga. is good, carrying two of them (one for each hand) should be even better! Wearing a long duster, like the old cowboys, would allow for reasonable concealment of the two shotguns with shortened barrels slung on your hips, ready to go at a moments notice. Of course you must wear dark sunglasses at all times when carrying this, even at night. Admittedly, wearing a duster year round, regardless of the weather, and with dark sunglasses at night, it might be a bit hard to be "the gray man". Until then, I will still feel okay leaving my house with my 642 in a Desantis pocket holster, or if I really feel bad vibes, my Glock 26 and an extra mag.
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While this may seem like good advice as it addresses the issue of limited ammo capacity, firing a 12 gauge one-handed is not advisable due to the difficulty of making accurate shots with the massive recoil generated by a short-barreled 12 gauge, and regardless, dual-wielding them is impractical unless they're both semiautomatic.
That being said, I wear my sunglasses at night so I can keep track of visions in my eyes, therefore no one can deceive me, cut my security, nor get control of me. After all, you don't switch the blade on the guy in shade, oh-no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter
If you walk around in public wearing something like that in plain sight you are going to get to spend a lot of time talking to law-enforcement officers and store managers.
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I'm glad that you mentioned this because obviously etiquette is of vital importance when carrying a firearm which is visible to the general public.
The trick is to give everyone you pass a friendly nod or a tip of the hat. If they ask you what you're carrying it for, then simply explain that it's for self-defense. If they ask the age old question; "Is that a shotgun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" You answer "Both" then raise your eyebrows twice and purr. This serves to show that you are a friendly fellow with a sense of humor who is — depending on whom you're speaking to — accepting of alternative lifestyle choices.
Fortunately, such scenarios seldom occur as police are often busy purchasing donuts, handing out parking tickets, and battling the Crackerjack Boys to trouble themselves by hassling law-abiding well-armed citizens. As for managers, they're too preoccupied speaking to dissatisfied female customers, berating employees for not working hard enough regardless of how hard they're actually working, and needing rescued from the Crackerjack Boys.
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Last edited by Echo40; 06-02-2024 at 02:16 PM.
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06-02-2024, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasconva
I wonder what a good quality leather holster would cost for it? |
I have a long gun scabbard for my shotgun that I wear across my shoulder when on my ATV. Seems it would work well for this application.
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06-02-2024, 06:20 PM
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Why am I hearing echoes of a young Vince McMahon declaring "the indisputable World Wide Wrestling Federation champion..."???
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