A pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester thread **New info 3/10/11**

Paladin,

The monte carlo stock was introduced in late '51 and first catalogued in '52. The other change made with the MC stock was to change the leaf spring rear sight to a folding leaf.

Nothing to really worry about, just background information about the rifle.

The serial number range for '49 is 101680 to 131730.

Hope this helps- good shooting.

Homie,

Thanks for the information. My Model 70 has a serial number within the range you indicated. The barrel date indicates manufacture in '49. As to the Monte Carlo stock, I dunno. Either it's a pre-introduction/special order, or someone switched factory stocks. I wasn't aware of the later introduction of the Monte Carlo stocks. I appreciate your information.

John
 
I had a pre 64 model 70 in .270.. a true classic that I got from an old customer who used to hunt out west and the stories were worth it. He finally sold me the gun and I was kinda upset with the scope mount. It was a side mount that hinged off to the side to use the open sights. The one time I shot it it did fine but the holes in the side of the receiver bothered me.

If I would have known then what I know now about using guns I would have kept that old rifle. Rifles bought right that are used or modified to where ya aren't afraid to use em are worth having!

Its one of the few I wish I had back...
 
Sadly the herd of user M/70's is rapidly being depleted by the "parts whores", they're parting them out cause the parts have become so valuable. Please when selling let's be careful not to let your M/70 fall into one of these guys hands. Pretty soon there won't be many shooter grade guns, they'll all be pricey safe queens.
 
I found this thread while looking for trigger adjustment for a pre 64. Sure has been nice looking at the beautiful rifles.

In 1980, I bought a Model 70 (pre 64), standard in 270 with a Weaver KV 2 3/4 to 5. The gun had had a half box of Winchester Western shot in it and I got the other half with the gun. I shot the other half and put in in the safe to be a safe queen. It was, literally, 98% including the Weaver.

A month ago I started shooting it again along with four other safe queens. What a joy this is to shoot. I carefully took off the Weaver, put it back in it's original box (I have the box for the 70 also) and replaced it with a Nikon 4.5X14X40 BDC. Since then I've shot about 150 rounds (I reload with the Lee Loader that came with it).

Thanks again for the great pictures. I'll have to get my daughter to teach me how to post a picture. Forgot to say - serial number 207XXX from 1952.
 
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I have four of these old Md 70 Winchesters. Two are featherweights in 30-06 and I usually hunt every year with them. It still knows how to put deer into the freezer. One is in 375 H&H and I used it for elk when we lived in Wyoming in the early 80's. The last one is the odd ball of the group. It's a Md 70 Westerner in 264 Winchester Mag. I bought it new in about 1961 and have used it for antalope but it"s not been shot in years. Also have 7 Md12's, three Md 42's and four Md 61, 22 pump guns. They all sit in the safe and collect dust. I know, a crime, but I kinda like the modern Remington stuff for it's utility. My son well probably get it all someday. David
 
Just sold one. Same gun as yours but it was built in "52". I bought more pistols with the proceeds. When I got back from Afg-I no longer wanted to shoot four legged animals. Enjoy.
 
I've heard these models extolled off and on for years, and now you folks almost have me wanting one. But could someone take a few minutes and explain to this ignorant fellow why they are so special?

Andy
 
Only one, but it was my father's .. a 270 featherwt. He bought it in Germany thru the Rod& Gun club for around $125, IIRC. I did a bad thing(in some purist's opinion) in that I restocked it with a Brown Precision Fiberglass Stock. (But I was smart enough to keep the original) Quite frankly, the original stock bruised you. Ten rounds and you had a heck of a "hicky" on your shoulder, and I am not a small person. The new stock makes it an all day shooter.

Too many memories for me to ever sell it.

As to why they are so coveted, they were made with a lot of machining and had a reputation for accuracy. Controlled round feeding is nice if something big and dangerous is headed your way.

However, Remington 700's far outnumber the other M70's in my safe. No real reason other than they were there in the caliber I wanted at the time I could buy them. Never had any problem with either as far as the operation and accuracy goes.
 
I too have only one. It was my Dad's. 300 H&H with a Weaver K-4 scope. he got it in the middle '50s.

He got an elk and sometimes a moose almost every year from 1957 to 1979.

He got me a Remington 721 in 300 H&H when I was 13. I took my first elk with it the next fall.

I learned to reload for those rifles with a Lyman 310 tool and dies.
I've still got both rifles and the reloading equipment.

He and I went elk hunting together for the last time in 1979, and he shot a cow with that old rifle. He was 62. He died just this year at 92.

I think I'm gonna keep that old rifle around. I've got a son and and a grand son that need to have that rifle one day.
 
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if the swift was a target,not a varminter , and had a good throat and bbl. and otherwise original, it was worth the price. sold some pre-64 bull guns lately and haven't taken less than $3500 yet. these are scarce variations with 28in hvy bbl. and marksman stocks

Back in the good old DCM days of the late 50's and early 60's, our nearby Army Ordnance Depot disposed of a small lot of Model 70 Target guns in 30-06 complete with Redfield Olympic sights for the princely sum of $75! I kept one for years and finally sold it a few years ago.
 
I've had the odd pre 64 70 over the years but was always a Rem 700 guy for my hunting rifles.

That changed in the early 90's when I bought a .30-06 pre 64 70 for $350 at the Winter Bozeman Show. (Ser# 19210) It came with Leupold 2 piece bases already mounted so threw a 30-9 on it and was amazed at the sub 1" groups with about ANY factory ammo I chose to fire!! THAT gun started my love affair with M-70's.

I've also got a .300 H&H Ser # 228590 thats in virtually unfired condition. That gun was a gift from an old Trapshooting friend after his death. He also gave me a pre 27 in 8 3/8" that was his "truck pistol" on the Ranch.

He bought most of his guns in "twos" . One for him, one for his son. His son tragically never lived to be old enough to shoot the gun so he saved it over the years.

FN in MT
 
I've heard these models extolled off and on for years, and now you folks almost have me wanting one. But could someone take a few minutes and explain to this ignorant fellow why they are so special?

Andy

I can't speak for everyone, but here are the reasons I love the old Model 70s:

1. Hand craftsmanship. These rifles were in fact virtually hand made. This was prior to CNC machining and metal injection molding. If the parts didn't fit quite right, a highly trained, skilled and experienced workman mated them until they did, and perfectly. Careful boring, chambering and barrel straightening, all by eye and by hand. The stock was fitted to the barreled action carefully. Such caring hand labor is not available today. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive in labor cost today, but the skill of those workmen died with them.

2. Controlled round feeding. No chance of a double feed on a short stroke. The round slipped up under the massive Mauser-style non-rotating extractor very quickly in the forward stroke. You could load a round into the chamber with the rifle canted or even upside down. This translates into reliability.

3. Detailing. The stock was hand-finished and hand checkered. The bluing was perfect. Good old-fashioned quality control was exercised. The rifle was checked out thoroughly, proofed and test fired for accuracy. No rifle left the factory unless it was perfect.

4. Accuracy. It's a rare Model 70 that will not put all its shots into 1 inch at 100 yards with most factory ammunition. With handloads it will do even better.

5. Accessories. Because it was the de facto standard for bolt action hunting rifles for so many years, scope bases, mounts and other add-ons were and are readily available.

6. That magnificent trigger. It was simplicity itself, easily adjustable by the user, and when locked down, it didn't vary from that point on. Like breaking a thin glass rod when squeezed. This alone contributed mightily to accuracy.

7. The ahead-of-its-time safety lever. It had three positions: Fire, locked but allowing bolt movement, and locked up solid with no bolt movement allowed. It was simple, easily manipulated under a scope, and observable. It's been widely copied on expensive prestige rifles such as the Kimber today.

8. Easy takedown and maintenance. It was as easy to clean as any battle rifle. The bolt could be disassembled without tools in the field. It was rare when a part failed, but if one did, parts were and still are available everywhere.

9. Factory options. If you wanted a deluxe model, you got it. If you wanted it chambered in .458 OMG, you got it. If you wanted it engraved, you got it. Special stock dimensions and configuration? You got it. The factory would lean over backward to please its customers. Some of those old special-manufacture rifles are worth fortunes today.

10. Operability and ergonomics. The action is exceedingly smooth, hand-honed at the factory, and gets smoother with use. The bolt handle knob is positioned right over the trigger for quick grasping on repeat shots. The magazine contents can be dumped quickly with the press of a button to the rear of the magazine. The safety is positioned for quick operation and operates silently. The sights come to the eye easily on mounting the rifle to the shoulder. The stock is hefty enough for a firm grasp, yet slim enough to save weight.

11. Classic lines. The rifle, taken as a whole, with all its combined features and lines, was just plain beautiful. From the sweep of its front sight, the bolstered rear sight, the stock, the matte-finished receiver contrasting with the polished blue barrel, the swept-back bolt handle, right down to the buttplate or recoil pad, the rifle was a looker. It was a Ferrari in a garage full of Ford sedans.

12. Pride of ownership. The Model 70 was known as "The rifleman's rifle" for good reason. There wasn't a gun expert from the 1930s through 1964 that didn't praise this rifle. It was the standard by which all others were judged. Sure, there have been other excellent rifles since. I own two Remington 700s, and I like them fine. But the one sporting centerfire rifle in my rack that I love and will always be able to rely on is my pre-'64 Winchester Model 70.

I hope this helps to explain the mystique of this magnificent rifle.

John
 
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there is something just very... as the French say " I dont know what" about them. i just passed on a pre 64 in .264 for under 1k recently. I went back a few weeks later and its gone of course


I can't speak for everyone, but here are the reasons I love the old Model 70s:

1. Hand craftsmanship. These rifles were in fact virtually hand made. This was prior to CNC machining and metal injection molding. If the parts didn't fit quite right, a highly trained, skilled and experienced workman mated them until they did, and perfectly. Careful boring, chambering and barrel straightening, all by eye and by hand. The stock was fitted to the barreled action carefully. Such caring hand labor is not available today. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive in labor cost today, but the skill of those workmen died with them.

2. Controlled round feeding. No chance of a double feed on a short stroke. The round slipped up under the massive Mauser-style non-rotating extractor very quickly in the forward stroke. You could load a round into the chamber with the rifle canted or even upside down. This translates into reliability.

3. Detailing. The stock was hand-finished and hand checkered. The bluing was perfect. Good old-fashioned quality control was exercised. The rifle was checked out thoroughly, proofed and test fired for accuracy. No rifle left the factory unless it was perfect.

4. Accuracy. It's a rare Model 70 that will not put all its shots into 1 inch at 100 yards with most factory ammunition. With handloads it will do even better.

5. Accessories. Because it was the de facto standard for bolt action hunting rifles for so many years, scope bases, mounts and other add-ons were and are readily available.

6. That magnificent trigger. It was simplicity itself, easily adjustable by the user, and when locked down, it didn't vary from that point on. Like breaking a thin glass rod when squeezed. This alone contributed mightily to accuracy.

7. The ahead-of-its-time safety lever. It had three positions: Fire, locked but allowing bolt movement, and locked up solid with no bolt movement allowed. It was simple, easily manipulated under a scope, and observable. It's been widely copied on expensive prestige rifles such as the Kimber today.

8. Easy takedown and maintenance. It was as easy to clean as any battle rifle. The bolt could be disassembled without tools in the field. It was rare when a part failed, but if one did, parts were and still are available everywhere.

9. Factory options. If you wanted a deluxe model, you got it. If you wanted it chambered in .458 OMG, you got it. If you wanted it engraved, you got it. Special stock dimensions and configuration? You got it. The factory would lean over backward to please its customers. Some of those old special-manufacture rifles are worth fortunes today.

10. Operability and ergonomics. The action is exceedingly smooth, hand-honed at the factory, and gets smoother with use. The bolt handle knob is positioned right over the trigger for quick grasping on repeat shots. The magazine contents can be dumped quickly with the press of a button to the rear of the magazine. The safety is positioned for quick operation and operates silently. The sights come to the eye easily on mounting the rifle to the shoulder. The stock is hefty enough for a firm grasp, yet slim enough to save weight.

11. Classic lines. The rifle, taken as a whole, with all its combined features and lines, was just plain beautiful. From the sweep of its front sight, the bolstered rear sight, the stock, the matte-finished receiver contrasting with the polished blue barrel, the swept-back bolt handle, right down to the buttplate or recoil pad, the rifle was a looker. It was a Ferrari in a garage full of Ford sedans.

12. Pride of ownership. The Model 70 was known as "The rifleman's rifle" for good reason. There wasn't a gun expert from the 1930s through 1964 that didn't praise this rifle. It was the standard by which all others were judged. Sure, there have been other excellent rifles since. I own two Remington 700s, and I like them fine. But the one sporting centerfire rifle in my rack that I love and will always be able to rely on is my pre-'64 Winchester Model 70.

I hope this helps to explain the mystique of this magnificent rifle.

John

what he said !
 
In the late 1960's, when I was a high school kid, Dad collected all the M70 "slick barrels" (no sights). They were sold before Dad died in 93. Through the years Dad and I probably had 30-40 M70s besides the slick barrels. I decided against "collecting" years ago, but I still have three, all nice shooters from the early 50's. 30-06 std, 270, std, 308 fwt. Selling a bunch of 70's helped finance my kids college and some of my target pistols. Years ago Dad bench fired a 3" group at 500 yards with a well worn 270 std. We had a few 54's too. One early 54 I had (std 30-06) with a peep would shoot 1" groups at 100. (I had good eyes in the 1970's). Probably the worst move of all was Dad finding an in the box, in the grease 358 fwt, and he shot it. Also Dad hogged out under the barrel and filled the forearm with epoxy and lead shot. That little 358 kicked like a mule.
 
I've never understood why one gun writer says that the M-70 is inaccurate. Maybe he's judging them by the standards of benchrest target rifles? :confused: As hunting rifles, they often do fine.

But I do think that current M-70's, across the board, are more consistent. I wouldn't trade my 1992-made Featherweight for a pre-'64. Still, a Super Grade M-70 of the old style is a beautful rifle. The current stocks, though, are more sylish, I think. Even Jack O'Connor would admire the checkering on the Featherweight. That would be prohibitively expensive if done by hand. It looks like the hand-cut checkering on his Al Biesen custom M-'70's.

T-Star
 
Sometime in the late 70’s, a cow-worker told me he had a pre 64 model 70 that he wanted to sell. He thought it was a 300 something. My first thought was it might be a 300 Savage. It turned out to be a 300 Win Mag.

He said he wanted $250.00 for it. I told him it was worth more but he didn’t care. That was what he had in it and that was all he wanted. It had a low power Weaver scope on it. It was in almost new condition. I did buy it and still have it. I have never fired it and probably won’t.

It will go to my grandson one of these days.
 
In the late 1960's, when I was a high school kid, Dad collected all the M70 "slick barrels" (no sights). They were sold before Dad died in 93. Through the years Dad and I probably had 30-40 M70s besides the slick barrels. I decided against "collecting" years ago, but I still have three, all nice shooters from the early 50's. 30-06 std, 270, std, 308 fwt. Selling a bunch of 70's helped finance my kids college and some of my target pistols. Years ago Dad bench fired a 3" group at 500 yards with a well worn 270 std. We had a few 54's too. One early 54 I had (std 30-06) with a peep would shoot 1" groups at 100. (I had good eyes in the 1970's). Probably the worst move of all was Dad finding an in the box, in the grease 358 fwt, and he shot it. Also Dad hogged out under the barrel and filled the forearm with epoxy and lead shot. That little 358 kicked like a mule.

Hamden, your father and mine had someting in common, my Dad amazed many people with 500 yard baseball size groups and dead deer at 500 yards. I have that standard in 270. Dad was the guy they sent out to neutralize German snipers. He learned it in North Africa.
 
Here's a 300 H&H that I re-stocked from a block many years ago.
M70005.jpg

M70003.jpg

M70002.jpg

M70004.jpg


Tim
 
Pre-64 Model 70's and pre-64 Model 12's have had my admiration for a quite a spell. It seems to run in cycles; pre-64 M 70's. M12's and early S&W revolvers and maybe the odd Colt.

Currently I'm dealing on a 2nd owner 1955, 220 Swift with a long tube scope. The barrel and throat are like new so he wants plenty for it. $1600. Waiting for more pictures and info.

Roger Rule's book, "The Rifleman's Rifle", is a great source of knowledge on the M70.

My pre-64 M 70's consist of:

- 1940 30 Gov't 06
- 1951 30-06
- 1953 30-06
- 1953 270 Win
- 1952 257 Robts.
- 1952 300 H&H mag
- 1959 338 Win mag
- 1959 375 H&H mag
- 1959 308 Win fwt.
- and their Grand Pappy: 1928 Model 54, 30 Gov't 06

Only have one picture on the H/D, but here it is:

1952, 300 H&H magnum

300HHpre-64M70020-1.jpg


Regards:
Rod

,,,


Since my last post I picked up a 1954 M70 in 220 Swift with a 15x Lyman Super TargetSpot scope. I sold my 1959 F/W, 308, and bought a 1953 F/W, 308.

1953 F/W 308

fw308.jpg


1954-55 220 Swift

swift.jpg


swiftm70002.jpg




Regards:
Rod
 
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