Winchester Model 12

Was interested in buying a Winchester Model 12 shotgun I saw recently.
This particular gun is a 16 gauge with a 30" full choke barrel and was
made around 1939. It is in real nice shape and all original as far as
wood and metal finish. Wondering what a fair selling price might be for
this gun?? Thanks!

First thing, since it is a prewar piece, it is likely the chamber is 2 9/16" and will need to be lengthened if it hasn't already- it should be checked before shooting. Myself, I like the lengthened chambers.

Also, if that piece was in this area, I'd make certain that it wasn't sleeved- most of those guns around here have been sleeved for turkey shoots. Can't hurt to check...

Hard to say without seeing it, but the 30" barrels bring a bit of a premium locally around this area- likely around $400 or so.

Just know there are many, many model 12's out there, and premiums should only be paid for pristine models, or the one you want or need to fill that spot in the collection.

Thanks Andy G!
It is a marked as a 2 3/4" chamber on the barrel. Also, I don't think it has been sleeved, but I can ask the seller to check. Looks like a decent gun. He is asking $595 for it so we'll see.

rchall said:

Thanks Andy G!
It is a marked as a 2 3/4" chamber on the barrel. Also, I don't think it has been sleeved, but I can ask the seller to check. Looks like a decent gun. He is asking $595 for it so we'll see.

Click to expand...

That would be steep for my area unless it was factory new, even then it would sit for a while- there isn't a lot of movement on them right now at any price.

The shop below has a large selection of Winchester 12 & 37 shotguns. John, the owner, is very knowledgeable about the guns.

John's Gun & Pawn
1870 Highway 441 N
Clayton, GA 30525-3037
(706) 782-1008

If you are looking for a shooter, make him an offer. I'd start at $475 and maybe go to $500 if it's in nice shape.
In the M12 they built the 16 Ga on a smaller frame than the 12 Ga, but a bit bigger than the 20 Ga. It makes for a very nice handling shotgun. I have a 16 Ga M12 with a 26" cylinder bore barrel. That thing is a death ray on Iowa pheasants, and it carries so nicely due to the fact it is lighter. I pick up one of my 12 Ga M12s and they feel like clubs in comparison.
I say buy it if the seller will deal. A good M12 will outlast you.
Jim

Quite honestly I would not pay more than $350 tops. I love 16's, but they are hard to sell if you need to and ammo aint on every shelf either.

In my area, the 16 ga is a slow mover and the 30" barrel would make it more so. Even in nice shape and having the correct 2 3/4" chamber I would be somewhere around $450.00 tops and most of that is because of the 30" barrel. A lot of 12 ga guns are slow movers because of that length barrel.
Oh and get ready for sticker shock on the 16 ga shells cause Walmart, Dicks and Academy Sports ain't got no deal on them, as my english teacher might say.

Thanks all! 16 gauge shells are a bit harder to come by these days, but you can still get them. I have used a 16 for years and think they are one of the best all-around shotguns for hunting. Light and easy to carry, tolerable recoil, good balance.

50 target said:

In my area, the 16 ga is a slow mover and the 30" barrel would make it more so.

Click to expand...

Ah, observe the regional influence- up here, 30"+ barrel lengths bring more. Many places, they bring less.

If it had a Poly-choke or Cutts on it- it's worth slightly more than a plug nickel. Sure, those things shoot just fine, but they make any fine shotgun repulsive and best, intolerable at worst. Internal choke tubes or sleeving on a vintage piece also make me turn away.

16-g and 20-g model 12s were built on the same size frame.

I've been shooting a 16 Ga since I was a kid. Also had 3 Model 12's, 2 12 Ga. & a 16. Don't have 'em anymore. Using my old Mod. 24 16 Ga now. Bought it used in 1951.

litauer said:

16-g and 20-g model 12s were built on the same size frame.

Click to expand...

As was the 28 ga.

Any model 12 built after 1927 had the longer 2 3/4" chambers. That is when Winchester lengthened all their 16 guage chambers.

This shotgun looks to be all original and in real nice shape for its age.
The owner said it works fine. Not a real collectors piece, but one you could take out and shoot and use in the woods. That's what I look for.

30-30remchester said:

Any model 12 built after 1927 had the longer 2 3/4" chambers. That is when Winchester lengthened all their 16 guage chambers.

Click to expand...

I've seen several earlier barrels put on later guns- likely by owners or gunsmiths. I always check unless marked on the barrel.

I prefer pumps with hammers myself.

The Model 12 is always worth more if it has a rib...solid or vent, the rib always commands a premium. At the asking price I am going to guess and say it does not, but if you just want it to hunt with and dont care about having a rib then O.K. Next thing to check is wear. The problem with the Model 12 is that the entire gun locks up on about a 1/4" of steel pad on the end of the single action bar. This area is constantly under pressure and when working the action or firing the gun it just wears out. It should be kept wet with grease but it seems not many shooters did this, it was simply run dry. Easiest way to tell if it has alot of wear is to pump the gun {empty of course} and push up on the follower. If the bolt moves upward somewhere around 1/4 of an inch then she has alot of wear and is not too far from blowing open when fired...not exactly dangerous but not fun either. Usually a new {$100.00 or so} action bar will fix it. Or you can have a gunsmith familiar with Model 12's weld it up and refit the action bar.
All my life I remember hearing old timers talk about how the Model 12 "would never wear out" and "the more you shoot it the tighter it gets" but statements like this are just not true...the fact is the Model 12 was replaced by the 870 for this reason. Remington's big advertising slogan {for those old enough to remember} was all about "twin action bars" and there was something to this.
I have a rather extensive gun collection...Parker's, Lefever's, Foxes, L.C. Smith's, even a former U-Boat commanders Luger, but the one everyone wants to see is my 20ga Super Pigeon with B carved wood and number 5 engraving. Good luck with the Model 12.

msinc said:

The Model 12 is always worth more if it has a rib...solid or vent, the rib always commands a premium. At the asking price I am going to guess and say it does not, but if you just want it to hunt with and dont care about having a rib then O.K. Next thing to check is wear. The problem with the Model 12 is that the entire gun locks up on about a 1/4" of steel pad on the end of the single action bar. This area is constantly under pressure and when working the action or firing the gun it just wears out. It should be kept wet with grease but it seems not many shooters did this, it was simply run dry. Easiest way to tell if it has alot of wear is to pump the gun {empty of course} and push up on the follower. If the bolt moves upward somewhere around 1/4 of an inch then she has alot of wear and is not too far from blowing open when fired...not exactly dangerous but not fun either. Usually a new {$100.00 or so} action bar will fix it. Or you can have a gunsmith familiar with Model 12's weld it up and refit the action bar.
All my life I remember hearing old timers talk about how the Model 12 "would never wear out" and "the more you shoot it the tighter it gets" but statements like this are just not true...the fact is the Model 12 was replaced by the 870 for this reason. Remington's big advertising slogan {for those old enough to remember} was all about "twin action bars" and there was something to this.
I have a rather extensive gun collection...Parker's, Lefever's, Foxes, L.C. Smith's, even a former U-Boat commanders Luger, but the one everyone wants to see is my 20ga Super Pigeon with B carved wood and number 5 engraving. Good luck with the Model 12.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with a few of your experences. I have 2 model 12 trap guns with over 1/2 million rounds through them and never had any problems with them "blowing the action open". I have never seen a model 12 that moved when you pushed the follower. The Remington model 870 didnt replace the model 12 because of the twin action bars. It took 12 years of production of the model 870 before the model 12 went away. The only advantages the Remington had over the model 12 were the were cheaper (also cheaper built), the were lighter because they used less steel and more cast mystery metal parts along with some stamped tin parts thrown in to boot, and it ability to quickly and cheaply change barrel (a good thing).

I own quite a few Model 12's and have for a long time. Without actually counting, there's gotta be at least 20 or more in my safe as well a couple of 42's and a few 1897's, 1901 and 1903. I've hunted with a Model 12 since I was a boy. No other shotgun comes up on target like a model 12. The only other shotgun that I've found that I can pick up and shoot like a Model 12 is my old Browning Superposed.

My oldest M12 is two very early 2nd year 20 gauges. Both these guns are nearing 100 years old and are still shooting. Also a first year 12 ga, 1914, and it's still going strong. I have a couple of 16 ga, one is very early with 2 9/16 chambers and the other 1948. The very early 20 ga has a 25" barrel and the early 16 ga has a 26" barrel. These little gems are more than a pleasure to shoot. Hell, I shoot Walmart specials in these guns like you never saw before.

Like someone already said, the 16 ga, 20 ga and the 28 ga are all built on the same frame. Unlike the 870, it's 16 ga is built on a 12 ga frame.

I even take my trap guns out bird hunting. They work fine. My favorite trap gun is one from 1937, solid rib barrel and my newest trap gun is 1963.

Anyways, the business about the M12 wearing out and the bolt flying open is not true. Pretty much can't wear out something that can be easily repaired or rebuilt. The nub on the end of the action slide presses the bolt up and into the locking notch that's in the top of the receiver, When that nub is not clean and lubricated, over the years the top of the nub will wear a tad causing the bolt to droop in the lock-up positon. To check for this, press up through the shell lifter with your middle finger to see if the bolt is locked up tight or if there's upward movement. When there's excessive upward movement the rear of the bolt is not fully contacting the surface of the lock-up notch in the top of the receiver. When the droop gets worse and a few thousand or so rounds, the lock-up notch gets rounded off.

To repair this is not difficult. Have a welder, with a mig, build up some weld on the top of the nub of the action slide. Blacksmith the lock-up notch back in shape by peening the metal. Reassemble and your good to go for another 20 or so years or more.

Another check point on a Model 12 is the takedown adjustment sleeve on the chamber end of the barrel. Take the gun down and you'll see the adjustment sleeve on the receiver extension. It's preferrable if the sleeve is still on the first or second notch. First notch, all the adjustment teeth will be to the left of the locking dog, looking at it with muzzle down.

That's it, I'm tired and going to bed. If you need more info on the Model 12, just ask and I'll help where I can/

Regards:
Rod

I as well own many model 12's and have studied them for years. You might be referring to the action bar problems after 1955 when Winchester was desperately trying to cut costs and changed the action bar to a cheaper design that could fail. Anyway it has been years since I tore into a model 12, examining every screw and part, your reply to the thread has got me wondering, so I quess I better refresh my knowledge base.