Winchester Model 12

[Mike SC Hunter]

Funny thing about Model 12's...young and old alike, everyones an expert, even the guys that have only ever shot one or two. I remember when I bought the very first one I ever had, $75.00 and I still have it. It would blow itself open no matter how tight or hard you tried to hold the forend forward. I posted the question online whether or not it was supposed to do this and got 26 replies. 13 said "nope, dont think so cause mine dont do that." and 13 said "yeah, that was what was so special about the Model 12 and what made it so fast to shoot." All 26 replies also went on to tell in detail how "you can hold the trigger in and pump the gun and it will fire when the bolt closes!!" They got that one 100% correct. I got the answer from AGI, the gunsmith named Roy Dunlap did a DVD on the Model 12 and addressed this exact issue. It's a good DVD for anyone looking to buy a Model 12 as he goes over all the things to check for in a used gun. He has a bad lisp so it's kinda like watching Sylvester the cat talk about guns. I have only ever bought {and restored} Model 12's, they are definately my favorite shotgun, never have sold one. Two interesting facts about the Model 12 that all these experts never relay...it was the first sucessful repeating shotgun made and every part was machined from solid steel billet up until 64 and then many were assembled after that with left over parts. All that said, get over it or not the 870 is still around and not only is the Model 12 long gone but so is the company that made it.

I own and shoot mdl. 12'a & mdl. 97's...........Don't agree with it being the first successful repeating shot gun.....Maybe the first hammerless one....Ain't no flies on the 97 either! It was/is a superb pump gun too.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Another fine firearm which had the handy work of John M. Browning in it's design, sort of the grandson of the 1897 Winchester.

Thomas Crossley Johnson(Winchester engineer) designed the mdl. 12. He did use some of the features from the 1897. JMB designed the 1893 and it was improved upon by Winchester and evolved into the 1897..A much improved shotgun.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I can't think of any by Winchester. Of course FN of Belgium cloned the M 12 in their Browning BPS. If anything, FN made it just a little more heavy duty. I had one in 12 ga., 30" bbl. with changeable chokes. I lived 20 miles NE of Denver on the point of a low hill directly in the flyway for Geese into a large lake. The Geese were normally too high when the clouds were high, but when the clouds were right on the deck the Geese flew under them sometimes within the 10+ yd. range of my 'Goose' gun. I got several on those days. ........

The BPS is bottom ejecting design that was (cloned/improved upon) the remington mdl. 10(designed by JMB) and improved upon with the design and mfg. of the Ithaca mdl. 37.

 

[msinc]

You are so right on this.

So.....the Model 12 cannot blow itself open??? I guess I dreamed it with the six I repaired. The bolt wont move upwards if you pump the gun empty and push up on the follower??? That was Roy Dunlap's dream, and the 870 didn't close down Winchester in 1964......
I'll concede to two things, Okay, "first successful hammerless repeater" and you missed three out of four, in one post, you're and expert on the model 12!!!!! You win!!!!!

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

So.....the Model 12 cannot blow itself open??? I guess I dreamed it with the six I repaired. The bolt wont move upwards if you pump the gun empty and push up on the follower??? That was Roy Dunlap's dream, and the 870 didn't close down Winchester in 1964......
I'll concede to two things, Okay, "first successful hammerless repeater" and you missed three out of four, in one post, you're and expert on the model 12!!!!! You win!!!!!

Not an expert by a long shot. What I was referring to was the cheaper stamped parts 870 won out to the labor intensive cost of the mdl. 12. Also everything else I stated is historically true and can be fact checked.

 

[Watchdog]

I think it would be time to find a new surgeon. I couldn't imagine giving up on my model 12's...A good alternative might be a nice Winchester model 42 410.

Priced those lately? Whew. But yeah, it's sure be hard to give up all my 12s, too.