New to me OSS Victory

[DBrainard]

The W is a British inspection Stamp known as the Weedon Mark. I have a Colt Revolver in 38 S&W that has this mark and none other. The Weedon can also be found on 1911s and Thompson SMGs of the WW1and WW2 era. It is believed that these were applied at Weedon, Northamptonshire GB.

The P is simply the marking applied when the weapon "passed Proof." The proof process was just another level of quality control on the part of the recipient country.

In short:
W - weapons depot at Weedon
P - "good enough for us" marking

I collect British Arms of the Empire. I'm up to well over 100 at this point. A special thank you to Ian Skinnerton, military historian, author, and dear friend.

 

[Historian13]

The W is a British inspection Stamp known as the Weedon Mark. I have a Colt Revolver in 38 S&W that has this mark and none other. The Weedon can also be found on 1911s and Thompson SMGs of the WW1and WW2 era. It is believed that these were applied at Weedon, Northamptonshire GB.

The P is simply the marking applied when the weapon "passed Proof." The proof process was just another level of quality control on the part of the recipient country.

In short:
W - weapons depot at Weedon
P - "good enough for us" marking

I collect British Arms of the Empire. I'm up to well over 100 at this point. A special thank you to Ian Skinnerton, military historian, author, and dear friend.

Interesting idea, but that doesn't explain why the W is also on DSC and other Victory's which only saw service in the US

 

[DBrainard]

Interesting idea, but that doesn't explain why the W is also on DSC and other Victory's which only saw service in the US

Could be a different W? 26 letters in the alphabet. Gotta be more than one "W" out there. I can only speak to that which I have knowledge on. The W I speak of has appeared on some Colts, Thompsons, P14s, Smiths… the OSS referenced W is a British Weedon Mark.

 

[kwill1911]

Could be a different W? 26 letters in the alphabet. Gotta be more than one "W" out there. I can only speak to that which I have knowledge on. The W I speak of has appeared on some Colts, Thompsons, P14s, Smiths… the OSS referenced W is a British Weedon Mark.

Can you post a picture? Some U.S. pistols that went to the Brits have a W within a crown (Woolwich inspection) but I'm unfamiliar with the Weedon mark.

 

[Historian13]

Could be a different W? 26 letters in the alphabet. Gotta be more than one "W" out there. I can only speak to that which I have knowledge on. The W I speak of has appeared on some Colts, Thompsons, P14s, Smiths… the OSS referenced W is a British Weedon Mark.

I agree, there is more than one W mark out there. Why do you believe the OSS W is a British Weedon mark?

 

[DWalt]

The lot of Victory Models our Sheriff's dept had were not black, they were grey. Is there a difference in Parkerizing and Grey Phosphate? A few years ago my son and I bought the chemicals from Brownell"s to Parkerize a Model 10. It turned-out black, and not grey.

Two completely different finishes. If phosphated, it would not have been done by S&W. Phosphated finishes can be several colors from gray to black, depending on the chemical formulation.

 

[DBrainard]

I agree, there is more than one W mark out there. Why do you believe the OSS W is a British Weedon mark?

As previously mentioned in the thread. The W is not confined to the OSS, but rather it references receipt at Weedon. I can also locate text reference if given enough free time to dig through my library… But I wasn't there so it's all hearsay.

 

[Historian13]

As previously mentioned in the thread. The W is not confined to the OSS, but rather it references receipt at Weedon. I can also locate text reference if given enough free time to dig through my library… But I wasn't there so it's all hearsay.
View attachment 793366

I understand you're making the connection that the OSS W mark is from Weedon. This is the first I've ever heard someone make that connection, and you appear extremely confident in it. My question is why you're so confident in your conclusion. If you have text reference that you're correct, I'm sure we'd all be very interested to read that as well.

 

[DWalt]

I knew what WEEDON was, but never heard of any connection with a W stamp on Victories.

 

[DBrainard]

I understand you're making the connection that the OSS W mark is from Weedon. This is the first I've ever heard someone make that connection, and you appear extremely confident in it. My question is why you're so confident in your conclusion. If you have text reference that you're correct, I'm sure we'd all be very interested to read that as well.

My confidence lies in the W meaning Weedon. It is logical to connect the W and P to the OSS revolvers in question as it has previously been stated that the OSS only markings are the W and P.

Weapons inbound were processed at Weedon and marked W upon receipt and P after passing Proof. Then on to receive Broad Arrow and other unit markings. IF the unit did not mark their weapons they would not possess any other markings. The OSS is known, as any half decent spy agency would, not to have unit or country stamped their weapons.

Is this clear as mud?

As I said previously. It's all hearsay if you weren't there to witness it.

I note that your title is Historian 13. I too am a Historian with 11 years of University education in said field. If indeed we are trying to seek out documents for an agency that has no markings and is clandestine in nature… well, best check Churchill's grave. There isn't much out there save the OSS museum in Washington D.C. They have a prototype spy radio I donated to them. It's the kind that the case dissolves in water. Sneaky little chaps!

 

[kwill1911]

It is logical to connect the W and P to the OSS revolvers....

Not to me. I mean no insult, but you've provided no support or documentation for your argument. We know that US Maritime Commission guns got the same W and never went to Britain. Lots of OSS Victory Models did not go to Britain, much less Weedon. In general the OSS was not a "spy agency" and most of the people and most of their work was not clandestine. Almost all of their guns had standard U.S. military markings, including U.S. PROPERTY and Ordnance inspection stamps, including those that were used on clandestine operations or provided to the SOE or the French Resistance. There are literally dozens of books on the OSS and Britain's SOE.

 

[DBrainard]

View attachment 793413View attachment 793413

 

[DBrainard]

Blasted Technology!

 

[Historian13]

Is this clear as mud?

There were so many great one liners in your last post, but this one seems the most appropriate.

If I understand you correctly, you think the Victory's for the OSS were manufactured but not proofed by S&W, shipped to the US Navy, transported to England, inspected and proofed by Weedon, and then transferred to the OSS?

 

[DBrainard]

The Office of Strategic Services (OSS) — America's wartime intelligence agency and predecessor to the CIA — had a very important presence in Great Britain during WWII. In fact, Britain was where much of the OSS got its start. Here's the breakdown:

1. Origins in Britain

• Before the U.S. entered WWII, Britain already had its own covert operations branch: the Special Operations Executive (SOE), created in 1940 to "set Europe ablaze" through sabotage and resistance.
• When the OSS was founded in 1942 under William J. "Wild Bill" Donovan, the U.S. leaned heavily on British experience.
• Many early OSS officers were trained in Britain at SOE schools in Scotland and England, where they learned parachuting, demolitions, hand-to-hand combat, and espionage tradecraft

2. Training Facilities in the UK

• Camp X (technically in Canada, but jointly run by SOE and OSS) trained many Americans before OSS had its own schools.
• In Scotland and England, SOE allowed OSS personnel to use facilities such as:
  • Arisaig House (commando training, demolitions, weapons)
  • Beaulieu Estate (espionage and clandestine tradecraft)
• 
  
• These British camps became the model for OSS schools later set up in the U.S. and overseas.

3. Operational Cooperation

• The OSS's London office became its largest station outside the U.S. during the war.
• London served as a hub for OSS coordination with:
  • MI6 (Secret Intelligence Service) → espionage and intelligence sharing.
  • SOE → sabotage and resistance support.
• 
  
• Joint operations included inserting agents into occupied France and supporting resistance groups in Europe.

4. Friction with the British

• Cooperation was strong, but not without tension. British agencies sometimes saw the OSS as inexperienced and too eager.
• SOE officers joked that OSS stood for "Oh So Social," since many American agents came from wealthy Ivy League backgrounds.
• Despite this, by late 1943 the OSS was running independent operations while still coordinating closely with the British.

5. Legacy

• OSS's time in Britain was foundational: it borrowed SOE's training methods, organizational structure, and many operational concepts.
• After the war, Britain dissolved SOE, while the U.S. transformed the OSS experience into the CIA (1947).

In short: Britain was the OSS's classroom and first battlefield. London and SOE camps in Scotland/England provided the training grounds and operational partnership that shaped America's wartime intelligence service.

All of that being said, it is entirely POSSIBLE that some OSS weapons bear the W and P.

But what do I know? I wasn't there.

 

[DBrainard]

I'm going to bow out of this thread. Clearly things are just becoming more confusing.

I've tried to respond to something and confounded others in the mean time.

A great source on OSS Weapons is:

OSS Weapons by Dr. John Brunner

Apologies.

 

[DWalt]

I sort of regret that I brought up the W butt stamp mystery topic, as no one so far seems to have an explanation with documented support for its origin and purpose. Maybe someday in some obscure source, an answer will be discovered. Nothing I will lose any sleep over.

 

[Historian13]

I sort of regret that I brought up the W butt stamp mystery topic, as no one so far seems to have an explanation with documented support for its origin and purpose. Maybe someday in some obscure source, an answer will be discovered. Nothing I will lose any sleep over.

For the time being I'm chalking it up to the contract letter prefix as the most likely option, but I haven't seen a ton of contract orders so it's a small sample size. Ironically it's probably something mundane that people at the time didn't pay any mind to

 

[Retired W4]

Everyone loves a good mystery. Rereading Pate and Dr. Brunner has been fun.

 

[VinnieL59]

Two completely different finishes. If phosphated, it would not have been done by S&W. Phosphated finishes can be several colors from gray to black, depending on the chemical formulation.

Thanks foor the reply. I have had thoughts of being able to put the grey finish whatever the heck it is on some tools I own. I have a 2 1/2 inch S&W revolver custom made N-frame .45 ACP that also has a black Parkerized finish on it. I love the finish because of its toughness and rust protection.